Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #2

[paris_paris]

The home-made incinerator:

In late 2011 or early 2012, Schlatman testified, Millard asked him to build a homemade incinerator to "burn off garbage" from his properties.
___________

I think we found out that the email or text Shane received about this was from April 2012, right after Noudga's texting snit.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/bosma-millard-texts-1.3500740

What was cloned out of the circled portion of this photo I wonder?

 

[deugirtni]

Yes, exactly. Conspiring, arranging, procuring are all subsets of the key element in first-degree murder: planning. As someone else pointed out, the Thatcher case was very similar. To be convicted, the accused does not need to have been physically present or operative in the actual killing, but s/he must have been involved in the planning, either as the principal or as a collaborator.

OTOH, if a person simply has knowledge of a murder but wasn't involved and doesn't report it, that is not technically a crime. Often the spouse/partner of a murderer is in such a situation. LE ask for anyone with relevant knowledge to come forward, but often such persons do not, for fear of reprisal.

Yes agreed, I just don't think the charge/conviction is 'first degree murder' if the crime is hiring someone to do it - wouldn't the charge/conviction be 'conspiracy to commit murder', etc.?? The Thatcher case, it seems, the jury believed he actually did the murder, although it seems that diff scenarios were presented?

 

[Kamille]

What was cloned out of the circled portion of this photo I wonder?

View attachment 125949

I believe that picture was sent to DM by SS and found on his phone. So it's hard to say whether something was removed by the person who sent the picture, whether the picture is losing something in the many transfers or whether something was redacted by LE. Although they are usually more inclined to black things out, leaving us guessing.

MOO

 

[andreww]

I believe that picture was sent to DM by SS and found on his phone. So it's hard to say whether something was removed by the person who sent the picture, whether the picture is losing something in the many transfers or whether something was redacted by LE. Although they are usually more inclined to black things out, leaving us guessing.

MOO

Looks like it may just be overexposure to me.

 

[palisadesk]

Yes agreed, I just don't think the charge/conviction is 'first degree murder' if the crime is hiring someone to do it - wouldn't the charge/conviction be 'conspiracy to commit murder', etc.?? The Thatcher case, it seems, the jury believed he actually did the murder, although it seems that diff scenarios were presented?

That's certainly a reasonable thought, but not the case in criminal law. The person who hires and pays the contract killer is just as guilty of M1 as if he had pulled the trigger (or used other weapon) himself. I'm not at the computer and can't research this, but another case that comes to mind is the Buxbaum case. That guy died in prison for arranging a hit on his wife. Examples come up frequently in cases involving organized crime, less often in cases such as the ones we follow here.

But apparently you don't need to move in mafia circles to find contract killers. I briefly worked with a chap who knew such a person and shared that a "hit" on a low-profile target could run as little as $5 grand at the time (late '80's) while more prominent people, or making it look like an accident, would run up the bill. I was quite astounded but declined to learn much more - I don't think my colleague was bluffing me. Some people have contract killers on their payroll - I can think of a couple of USA examples but won't name them here.

 

[Night_is_Mine]

The home-made incinerator:

In late 2011 or early 2012, Schlatman testified, Millard asked him to build a homemade incinerator to "burn off garbage" from his properties.
___________

I think we found out that the email or text Shane received about this was from April 2012, right after Noudga's texting snit.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/bosma-millard-texts-1.3500740

Look at this thing lol Makes me think of that line DM said? Guilty? Me? Might as well accuse me of being to the moon! By the looks of this Flintstones rocket ship who knows that might have been the next mission lol

 

[Kamille]

Yeah, just perfectly shaped and and narrow enough to burn extra "garbage" from the hangar. Whatever, Shane.

I also like how he was so vague on the timing of the request, oh I don't know, maybe late 2011/early 2012. Really SS? The hangar wasn't completed until March 2012.

He also claimed he didn't show DM how to use the Eliminator until August 2012. But apparently there are pictures of it burning in July. And MS was there. So was it just SS and MS there for that "burn" when the afterburners kicked in and it sounded "awesome"? Or had he shown his "boss" how to use it as soon as it was set up?



MOO

 

[Tealgrove]

I also like how he was so vague on the timing of the request, oh I don't know, maybe late 2011/early 2012. Really SS? The hangar wasn't completed until March 2012.

He also claimed he didn't show DM how to use the Eliminator until August 2012. But apparently there are pictures of it burning in July. And MS was there. So was it just SS and MS there for that "burn" when the afterburners kicked in and it sounded "awesome"? Or had he shown his "boss" how to use it as soon as it was set up?



MOO

It will be quite interesting to hear Shane's testimony this time around. IIRC DM stated that Shane was being called to testify? So if he changes his timeline now to reflect something closer to the truth can be charged with perjury for lying at the TB trial?

 

[Inspector_North]

The home-made incinerator:

In late 2011 or early 2012, Schlatman testified, Millard asked him to build a homemade incinerator to "burn off garbage" from his properties.
___________

I think we found out that the email or text Shane received about this was from April 2012, right after Noudga's texting snit.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/bosma-millard-texts-1.3500740

Has it been confirmed this picture was taken in the new hanger? If so, can't see it being 2011.

"[FONT=&quot]In July 2011, the firm secured a building permit for a $6.4 million hangar on two hectares owned by the public. Construction launched on the red-roofed building. The hangar secured an occupancy permit in February 2012. However, the bold plan to service jetliners never took off."[/FONT]

 

[Kamille]

It will be quite interesting to hear Shane's testimony this time around. IIRC DM stated that Shane was being called to testify? So if he changes his timeline now to reflect something closer to the truth can be charged with perjury for lying at the TB trial?

Shane's testimony, if he testifies in this trial, will be exactly the same vague nothing answers that he gave in the first trial.

MOO

 

[tommyR]

IIRC from the TB trial, Mark's mom had to be restrained and removed from either the room or the house during the first search. I can't find the description of the encounter, but remember her picking something up and threatening a LE officer.

Due to the fact the gun used in the TB murder was unaccounted for the police were taking no chances when they initially attended the Smich home. The ERT was used to enter and secure the residence - the front door was 'kicked' open. MS's mother was in the back yard. MS was not home. Mrs Smich (not sure if that is her name) was hysterical that the police had entered her home and had damaged a coffee table and the front door.
Mrs. Smich was holding yard work scissors and police had to calm her down.
Mr Dungey tried to get this search thrown out due to the aggressive nature of the police in executing the warrant. Judge said the aggressive entry was entirely appropriate, not thrown out.

 

[andreww]

Shane's testimony, if he testifies in this trial, will be exactly the same vague nothing answers that he gave in the first trial.

MOO

Like all of Millard’s gang, their testimony was crafted to not implicate themselves. They all played dumb, but nobody is that dumb.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RezButt]

I wonder if the need to dispose of garbage will be the rationalization for the eliminator purchase in this trial? Or will it be for that pet cremation company that never gathered any steam?

I think we will hear from a lot of the ‘players’ in the TB trial. There is just way too much overlap for me as an observer to not hear from witnesses we’ve heard from before.

All of this is my opinion, of course.

 

[palisadesk]

I wonder if the need to dispose of garbage will be the rationalization for the eliminator purchase in this trial? Or will it be for that pet cremation company that never gathered any steam?

Hah, I think that a "cremation business" was at least a thought in one of our happy felons' minds, but "pets" were not the population intended... The subject of contract killers made me wonder if a sideline in that direction wasn't something being considered as well. We'll never hear about either in testimony, though!

 

[Inspector_North]

I wonder if the need to dispose of garbage will be the rationalization for the eliminator purchase in this trial? Or will it be for that pet cremation company that never gathered any steam?

To do that they will need evidence that it was actually used on LB. Otherwise the Eliminator is just a incinerator at that point in time.

So far they only have some photos and a Rap song to link the eliminator. I believe we will see some solid evidence that ties the Eliminator to LB's disappearance. After the TB trial, most of us know why it was purchased. IMO

 

[Errrr]

Yes agreed, I just don't think the charge/conviction is 'first degree murder' if the crime is hiring someone to do it - wouldn't the charge/conviction be 'conspiracy to commit murder', etc.?? The Thatcher case, it seems, the jury believed he actually did the murder, although it seems that diff scenarios were presented?

A conviction for conspiring to kill someone doesn't require that someone was actually killed.

 

[Errrr]

I, too, have been re-reading those jailhouse letters (thanks, billandrew!), and am interested to see more of them. I'm sure there were discussions regarding LB that were not able to be entered as evidence in TB's trial.

I found it laughable that DM truly seemed to believe that AM's testimony was his only real stumbling block with respect to that first trial. This guy really seemed to think he was going to get away with everything!

I agree that DM really believe he was going to get away with murder. He kept saying his alibi was right in front of everyone's face. I think he was waiting for people to point the finger at his friends (probably what his mom used to excuse his behaviour). JMO

 

[winter2017]

I hope not the witnesses were so boring to listen to and it was obvious most of them were lying the only one I found worth listening to was Igor, he had no reason to lie and he was the one who helped the police get DM. The rest of the characters that were connected to DM or MS it was brutal to have to listen to the BS. I liked listening to the forensic witnesses. If they bring back some of the idiot cohorts of DM to testify I will tune out until they are finished. I think everyone is 99.0% sure by now that they murdered Laura. I would like to hear what the crown has to say of what they believed happened and who they think killed her, which one DM or MS. The trial for me is over it is just finding out more details of motive and how she was killed. If DM is convicted of this murder, I feel pretty certain he will be for the death of his father. They destroyed their lives and ended the lives of probably 3 other people. DM became famous now going down in history as one of Canada s bizarre serial killers.

 

[winter2017]

TommyR, I hear people saying she had every right to be hysterical and alarmed. it is so tedious. This was a big case in the media. Once Sharlene went on TV pleading for her husband to be returned everyone became aware of the disappearance and how weird it was, that he went for a test drive and never came home. MS Smith knew DM hung around with her son. Maybe she did not think they would come to search her house in the way they did, but by now she knows her son was involved in the murder and possibly one more. The police had information that a gun was the murder weapon and it had not been found, MS was the other suspect he lived at her home, so it is reasonable they went to the home with the SWAT team and concerned for their safety tried to secure the residence.

 

[Stratocaster]

Two people that knew waaaaaaay more, than all the others involved in this horribly messy situation, besides the accused......SS and CN