Backward State - Reverse Speeech Analysis of Ron and Misty

[ShawnHS]

You prove to me that this happened to Oats and I will back down. I know you can't prove it. If you can't prove it then guess what? That is my proof.

If you read my post you would see that I have already addressed this, but let's try again;

[FONT=&quot]David J. Oates says “Officials in Washington DC expressed interest in my work, but this abruptly ceased when I uncovered a Desert Storm code word embedded backwards into George Bush's speeches. A secret memo sent to Defense Secretary Dick Cheney was leaked to the press and the story hit international headlines. I was asked to keep quiet, and many of my lectures around the country were canceled including a research project that was being arranged with the Michigan state police.

[/FONT]In case the "[FONT=&quot] secret memo" with the United States Senate letterhead is not readable to you allow me to retype it:

October 3, 1990
The Honorable Dick Cheney
Secretary of Defense
The Pentagon
Washington D.C. 20301-1155
[/FONT]
Dear Dick,

By a technology know as Reverse Speech Therapy, several of us have been following statements made by principal actors involved in the current Persian Gulf crisis.

In statements made about Iraq by President Bush, Secretary of state Baker and yourself, a word we have never seen in a speech reversal has appeared. The word is "Simone".

I mention this situation in case it is a code word that might not be in the national interest to be known.

If the word is significant, please contact me and I will provide details about the technology and assist in any way that I can in whatever the situation may be.

Warm Regards,

C.B. Scott Jones
Special Assistant

You didn't answer my question about the detectives. You very cleverly blew it off by saying you never said we did not need detectives.

Really. I don't know how I could have been any clearer. Let me restate it - "...Its uses in law enforcement alone are fantastic. It can reveal the location of missing evidence, and the motives for a crime. It can reveal the guilt or innocence of a suspect. Therefore reverse speech analysis is an excellent tool to help investigators to narrow the focus of an investigation. And if you had read the articles I have referenced you would have seen LE agencies have been using reverse speech to aid in their investigations with successful results..."

...What I want to know is how come the detectives are not using this reverse speech to solve all their crimes...

Did you ever stop to think not all may be aware of it?

If it works it would be easy to prove. You can't prove it works and you will dance around this question again...

...As it stands now NO ONE in the real world of crime uses this to solve cases...

In case you have an aversion to me using a link as a source, here is some of the transcript from a letter from Southern Oregon University that offered a course on Reverse Speech for the Oregon State Police.

RE: Southern Oregon University SOC SCI 407:
INTRO REVERSE SPEECH ANALYSIS:
OR DOJ DEPT / PUBLIC SAFETY STDS & TRAINING CERTIFIED
COURSE #02CP098
REVERSE SPEECH ANALYSIS TRACK RECORD EXAMPLES

• In a case of alleged rape, the plaintiff had told detectives that she had not been sexually active, even with her boyfriend, for at least 72 hours prior to the alleged rape. The Reverse Speech Analysis revealed, in her own voice, a person’s name and a statement of sexual activity embedded in her statement describing events on the night of the alleged incident.

The name that appeared in the covert speech channel did not match that of her boyfriend nor of any of the four defendants, suggesting that she had been active with someone other than her boyfriend and other than the defendants within 24 hours of the alleged incident. This finding, among a variety of other profile data provided by the analysis, contradicted her forward statements to the detectives. Three weeks subsequent to the Reverse Speech Analysis finding, DNA analysis results from the state police lab corroborated the Reverse Speech Analysis finding.

• In a homicide case, a “witness” to the incident revealed in the covert (‘Reverse Speech’) channel a specific (and unusual) first name of someone who would “tell all.” Interview of the party mentioned, and of her daughter, produced information material to the case.

Reverse Speech Analysis of the deponent’s description of the moment the shot was fired revealed (again, in the deponent’s own voice) her probable greater involvement in the incident than as a mere witness, and a specific motive for the shooting, which motive was subsequently corroborated independently by statements of others with knowledge of the circumstances of the incident.
When describing how her ex-boyfriend allegedly shot and killed the victim, she produced a reversal that said: “Ikill glad you [s.o.b.], you will deal when I 'law'!" ("law" is a Reverse Speech metaphor that in this context means ‘when I say so!’), thereby indicating that she had a lot more to do with the victim’s death, and that it apparently was revenge for his not continuing to include her as a partner in his drug dealing activities.
This motive re: the victim’s allegedly dealing drugs without the speaker’s ‘permission’ was confirmed by the retaining attorney as a probable motive for the homicide, based on statements of other persons having knowledge of the speaker’s relationship with the victim, and their involvement with drug dealing.

• In another homicide case, Reverse Speech Analysis of a statement of the suspect as he was denying his adult son’s alleged affair with the victim’s wife directly contradicted his denial, when “nearly got caught” appeared in the covert channel. This ‘Reverse Speech’ statement by the suspect offered material insight into a possible cause of the argument between the suspect and the victim that had resulted in the victim’s death.

When confronted with this possibility, the son vehemently denied such involvement… until three months later, at which time after repeated confrontation on this issue, the son finally admitted such an affair, thus corroborating the Reverse Speech Analysis finding, and affirming facts material to the case.
The victim’s wife, who was party to the affair profiled by the Reverse Speech Analysis, when confronted with the investigators’ knowledge of the affair, demonstrated shock, and then admitted to the affair in her deposition.


FOR REFERENCE, PLEASE CONTACT:
Dr. Lee Ayers
Chair, Department of Criminology
Southern Oregon University
Ashland, Oregon

Professor Janet E. McClellan
Lead Faculty (Chair)
Department of Criminal Justice
Coos Community College
Coos Bay, Oregon

...You can post a bunch of really long posts but common sense will rule here I am sure.

One can only hope!

 

[MeoW333]

Shawn, anyone could have photoshopped that crap document.

If this "reverse speech" really worked that well, everyone would be aware of it.


Your "internation headlines" link wants to save itself to my computer when i try to open it, i don't even think it's safe to open, it might have a virus.

 

[KOOL LOOK]

the link opened up for me just fine. no virus indicated, and my computer is 3 weeks old, updated and I trust it.

 

[Karen Anne RN]

I would like very much for the threads on reverse speech analysis to remain open. I find them very interesting.

My husband is the Grand Jury Foreman in our county. There are some police departments in the United States who find speech analysis to be helpful in their investigations. While not acceptable in a court of law, just like lie detector tests, they can help provide useful information for law enforcement.

Respectfully submitted
Karen

 

[badme102]

Human beings speak in FORWARD speech and motion for a reason. That is our way to speak. I do not believe for one second that a "reverse" pattern speech is what our "true" feelings are.

No offense, Shawn, but I have read up on this over and over again, seeing you on youtube and elsewhere. I still don't believe it and never will. I have an extremely open mind, and it just seems a bit like nonsense to me.
I cannot HEAR what you say people are saying--EVER. Not just in this case, but in any so-called analysis under this topic.

Frankly, I feel like I'm back in highschool trying to listen to a Pink Floyd album backwards and hearing nothing but gibberish.

MISTY IS THE KEY and she is lying. End of story. I don't care if anyone "hears" differently forwards, backwards, upside-down or sideways. Her FORWARD speech and body language tell me enough.

knub si siht

 

[ShawnHS]

:laugh:

Shawn, anyone could have photoshopped that crap document.

Oh yeah, that must be it.

Your "internation headlines" link wants to save itself to my computer when i try to open it, i don't even think it's safe to open, it might have a virus.

Ooohh, now we have the spooky "might have a virus" alert.

How about trying it from You Tube:YouTube - Reverse Speech - Secret Code Words

 

[Muffet]

If you read my post you would see that I have already addressed this, but let's try again;

[FONT=&amp]David J. Oates says “Officials in Washington DC expressed interest in my work, but this abruptly ceased when I uncovered a Desert Storm code word embedded backwards into George Bush's speeches. A secret memo sent to Defense Secretary Dick Cheney was leaked to the press and the story hit international headlines. I was asked to keep quiet, and many of my lectures around the country were canceled including a research project that was being arranged with the Michigan state police.

[/FONT]In case the "[FONT=&amp] secret memo" with the United States Senate letterhead is not readable to you allow me to retype it:

October 3, 1990
The Honorable Dick Cheney
Secretary of Defense
The Pentagon
Washington D.C. 20301-1155
[/FONT]
Dear Dick,

By a technology know as Reverse Speech Therapy, several of us have been following statements made by principal actors involved in the current Persian Gulf crisis.

In statements made about Iraq by President Bush, Secretary of state Baker and yourself, a word we have never seen in a speech reversal has appeared. The word is "Simone".

I mention this situation in case it is a code word that might not be in the national interest to be known.

If the word is significant, please contact me and I will provide details about the technology and assist in any way that I can in whatever the situation may be.

Warm Regards,

C.B. Scott Jones
Special Assistant

Letterhead is meaningless when the person who wrote the letter was a mere aid, "CB Scott Jones," and all it says is that he was told that "Simone" was heard backwards.

It certainly does not support the claim that "Officials in Washington DC expressed interest in my work, but this abruptly ceased when I uncovered a Desert Storm code word embedded backwards"

Really. I don't know how I could have been any clearer. Let me restate it - "...Its uses in law enforcement alone are fantastic. It can reveal the location of missing evidence, and the motives for a crime. It can reveal the guilt or innocence of a suspect. Therefore reverse speech analysis is an excellent tool to help investigators to narrow the focus of an investigation. And if you had read the articles I have referenced you would have seen LE agencies have been using reverse speech to aid in their investigations with successful results..."

Did you ever stop to think not all may be aware of it?

I think they are aware of it, but more so of the dangers of using the equivalent of reading tea leaves to determine truth and justice, as described well here:

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/demon-haunted_sentence_a_skeptical_analysis_of_reverse_speech1/

Oates's claims have dangerous implications. He states not only that reverse speech is real but also that it always “tells” the truth. He calls it the “ultimate lie detector test.”

Adding to the insidious nature of these claims, Oates states that one has to be specially trained to hear reverse speech; those who pay him a hefty sum and go through his training can then (they hope, some day) serve as expert witnesses and command hefty sums themselves. As expert witnesses they could analyze testimony played backwards and inform a court what a witness is truly saying. The judge and jury, not having the training, will be unable to verify this information. The potential damage could be enormous since the "truth” may be invented from the subjective interpretation of nonsense syllables.​

In case you have an aversion to me using a link as a source, here is some of the transcript from a letter from Southern Oregon University that offered a course on Reverse Speech for the Oregon State Police.

RE: Southern Oregon University SOC SCI 407:
INTRO REVERSE SPEECH ANALYSIS:
OR DOJ DEPT / PUBLIC SAFETY STDS & TRAINING CERTIFIED
COURSE #02CP098
REVERSE SPEECH ANALYSIS TRACK RECORD EXAMPLES

• In a case of alleged rape, the plaintiff had told detectives that she had not been sexually active, even with her boyfriend, for at least 72 hours prior to the alleged rape. The Reverse Speech Analysis revealed, in her own voice, a person’s name and a statement of sexual activity embedded in her statement describing events on the night of the alleged incident.

The name that appeared in the covert speech channel did not match that of her boyfriend nor of any of the four defendants, suggesting that she had been active with someone other than her boyfriend and other than the defendants within 24 hours of the alleged incident. This finding, among a variety of other profile data provided by the analysis, contradicted her forward statements to the detectives. Three weeks subsequent to the Reverse Speech Analysis finding, DNA analysis results from the state police lab corroborated the Reverse Speech Analysis finding.

• In a homicide case, a “witness” to the incident revealed in the covert (‘Reverse Speech&#8217 channel a specific (and unusual) first name of someone who would “tell all.” Interview of the party mentioned, and of her daughter, produced information material to the case.

Reverse Speech Analysis of the deponent’s description of the moment the shot was fired revealed (again, in the deponent’s own voice) her probable greater involvement in the incident than as a mere witness, and a specific motive for the shooting, which motive was subsequently corroborated independently by statements of others with knowledge of the circumstances of the incident.
When describing how her ex-boyfriend allegedly shot and killed the victim, she produced a reversal that said: “Ikill glad you [s.o.b.], you will deal when I 'law'!" ("law" is a Reverse Speech metaphor that in this context means ‘when I say so!&#8217, thereby indicating that she had a lot more to do with the victim’s death, and that it apparently was revenge for his not continuing to include her as a partner in his drug dealing activities.
This motive re: the victim’s allegedly dealing drugs without the speaker’s ‘permission’ was confirmed by the retaining attorney as a probable motive for the homicide, based on statements of other persons having knowledge of the speaker’s relationship with the victim, and their involvement with drug dealing.

• In another homicide case, Reverse Speech Analysis of a statement of the suspect as he was denying his adult son’s alleged affair with the victim’s wife directly contradicted his denial, when “nearly got caught” appeared in the covert channel. This ‘Reverse Speech’ statement by the suspect offered material insight into a possible cause of the argument between the suspect and the victim that had resulted in the victim’s death.

When confronted with this possibility, the son vehemently denied such involvement… until three months later, at which time after repeated confrontation on this issue, the son finally admitted such an affair, thus corroborating the Reverse Speech Analysis finding, and affirming facts material to the case.
The victim’s wife, who was party to the affair profiled by the Reverse Speech Analysis, when confronted with the investigators’ knowledge of the affair, demonstrated shock, and then admitted to the affair in her deposition.


FOR REFERENCE, PLEASE CONTACT:
Dr. Lee Ayers
Chair, Department of Criminology
Southern Oregon University
Ashland, Oregon

Professor Janet E. McClellan
Lead Faculty (Chair)
Department of Criminal Justice
Coos Community College
Coos Bay, Oregon

Like Tricia, my problem is with all the answers and proofs that are neither straight answers nor proof at all.

In this case, saying that "Southern Oregon University that offered a course on Reverse Speech for the Oregon State Police" in no way shows that the Oregon State Police sent anyone to it.
And the letter is headed with "The following report was prepared by Reverse Speech Practitioner, Jack Johnstone" ... and to top it off, the letter doesn't actually say LE used RS. Heck, even the supposed letter from the atty is only signed "D. E. Esq."

To each his own, but after seeing these things and so much more misleading info on the RS site, and after reading reviews that point out even more, I personally wouldn't believe a word that came out of David John Oates' mouth or his site.

He actually has this on his resume:

David has been compared to Thomas Edison, Alexander Graham Bell and Nicola Tesla and his work described as being of Nobel calibre with far reaching ramifications in such fields as law enforcement, business and psychology.

Of course, "has been compared"... could be stated honestly, even if it were only a comparison made by his mother. Meanwhile, he neglects to add that he is scoffed at by actual scientists and academia. (see links below)

It's one thing to toy with things, but before taking anyone's word for what someone has said backwards, listen to it for yourself. Preferably before they have told you what they think you should hear. but false or misleading claims that something is scientifically supported or proven should be a warning.

Here are some links for those who want information from people who aren't trying to sell anything:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_speech

http://skepdic.com/*************.html

http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/reverse_speech/

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/demon-haunted_sentence_a_skeptical_analysis_of_reverse_speech1/

http://www.darkecho.com/skepticalbeliever/reverse.html

http://bad-language.com/files/newbrook1.pdf

"We were able to show not only that unprompted listeners cannot generally hear the RS sequences but also that it is quite possible to induce them to hear any of a range of different sequences in the same reversed material, as long as the sounds and especially the vowels in the successive syllables are similar."
​

 

[KOOL LOOK]

I would like very much for the threads on reverse speech analysis to remain open. I find them very interesting.

My husband is the Grand Jury Foreman in our county. There are some police departments in the United States who find speech analysis to be helpful in their investigations. While not acceptable in a court of law, just like lie detector tests, they can help provide useful information for law enforcement.

Respectfully submitted
Karen

Interesting Karen. Has your husband ever made any specific comments or opinions about it, concerning a case that he observed?

I would like for the thread to stay open if thats okay, :twocents: I enjoy the reading, as I'm stuck at home with bronchitis, it's pouring rain, hubby out of town, and I have quiet time to read.

 

[Muffet]

I would like very much for the threads on reverse speech analysis to remain open. I find them very interesting.

My husband is the Grand Jury Foreman in our county. There are some police departments in the United States who find speech analysis to be helpful in their investigations. While not acceptable in a court of law, just like lie detector tests, they can help provide useful information for law enforcement.

Respectfully submitted
Karen

Regular linguistics/Speech analysis is of value, but it is not what we are dealing with in this thread.

(In fact, if you read through the links I gave, you'll see that real linguists are some of the biggest critics of the Reverse Speech claims.)

 

[curvecuti]

You know Shawn the more I read this thread, the more I like you! I think the speech reversals are very interesting.

 

[Muffet]

Shawn, anyone could have photoshopped that crap document.

If this "reverse speech" really worked that well, everyone would be aware of it.


Your "internation headlines" link wants to save itself to my computer when i try to open it, i don't even think it's safe to open, it might have a virus.

I don't think the document was photoshopped. Just look up the author of the letter, "C.B. Scott Jones".

Background:
http://www.paradigmresearchgroup.org/X-Conference2008/jones_supplement.htm

Here he is doing a presentation on "How The Alien Presence Affects Society"
http://www.ufocongressstore.com/servlet/the-636/C.B.-"Scott"-Jones,-Ph.D./Detail

Claiborne Pell, to whom Scott Jones was an aid, was considered a kook in congress, himself, so it was a good fit. Whether Pell knew Jones was using his letterhead is questionable, though.

* He has led research in applied anomalous phenomena. Networking with the parapsychological community, he has worked throughout the executive branch to address issues of government support for basic parapsychological research, and to consider implications and applications of this phenomena. A major two year program culminated in 1995 with an international conference “When Cosmic Cultures Meet” in Washington DC. A wide spectrum of academic disciplines and interests assessed the implications, preparations and responses for the time when there is no ambiguity about the understanding that higher intelligences from cosmic cultures are meeting.

 

[Karen Anne RN]

Interesting Karen. Has your husband ever made any specific comments or opinions about it, concerning a case that he observed?

I would like for the thread to stay open if thats okay, :twocents: I enjoy the reading, as I'm stuck at home with bronchitis, it's pouring rain, hubby out of town, and I have quiet time to read.

Grand Jury testimony is private, and he took an oath to not divulge any testimony from their proceedings. All attorneys, detectives, police officers, and Grand Jurors are also under the same oath. So while I have no knowledge of any individual cases, I do, however, know that reverse speech is helpful in some investigations.

I am so very proud of my husband's accomplishments in life, and my deepest regret is that I will never be able to watch him preside over his Jurors. Even as his wife, I am not allowed in that room.

 

[Karen Anne RN]

Regular linguistics/Speech analysis is of value, but it is not what we are dealing with in this thread.

(In fact, if you read through the links I gave, you'll see that real linguists are some of the biggest critics of the Reverse Speech claims.)

I am only addressing reverse speech analysis.

 

[ShawnHS]

...(In fact, if you read through the links I gave, you'll see that real linguists are some of the biggest critics of the Reverse Speech claims.)

Be careful, most of the websites you provided links to sell stuff. Wouldn't want your post to get censored.

All but one of the links you provided are from self proclaimed skeptics that have not shown they have spent one nano-second researching the phenomena of reverse speech.

Mark Newbrook is/was a linguist from the Monash University. On David Oates site there is a lengthy article entitled "Reply to Monash". To take a sentence from it, it says "There seems to be obvious omissions and innaccurate statements in the Monash paper."

There is also a response to one of the other sites you linked to, The Skeptical Inquirer, called "The Demon Haunted Sentence: A Skeptical Analysis of Reverse Speech". The name of the article in response to that on David Oates site is "Our Reply to the Skeptical Inquirer".

While your there reading those responses you might want to read the article from a linguist who has spent time researching the phenomena called "Linguistic Analysis of Some Reversals on This Site".

I'd provide the links but....

 

[Tricia]

Thank you for keeping this thread open Tricia. Yes, I am very interested in reversals. I understand your concern about things that can't be proven, but we have several threads of that nature on WS. There are tons of rumor threads, a dreams/visions thread, forensic astrology thread, and I even remember something about inkblots at one time.

There is no need to shut this thread down. People are polite and if you are interested in the topic all the more reason.

But as owner, I felt like I needed to express my opinion on this particular subject because I believe there is nothing to it

That doesn't mean because we allow discussions about dreams and other different topics that I condone them. It just means I don't feel strongly one way or another.

I have spoken to a few people in law enforcement and I asked them about this very topic. One asked me, "You're kidding right?" Another laughed and changed the subject, and one said, well, I won't say what he said.

Again, if it works it should be being used right now for all cold cases and current cases. It is not. Law Enforcement agencies across the U.S. universally don't even consider this topic worthy of discussion.

Unless you can show me that it works I will stand firm in my opinion.

One more point that I brought up but want to again; The detectives and other LE in Haleigh's case say Misty is not being forthright. She is holding something back.

LE has spent hours on hours interviewing Misty and interviewing her friends and family about her. They probably know Misty better than anyone.

Don't you think, just one person involved in this case, would use this technique if it would clear Misty? Wouldn't they be all over this thing like white on rice. They would have done a reverse speech day one when they questioned her.

Think about it. It is so easy to prove it works. Yet, that hasn't been done.

 

[Pondering Mind]

Grand Jury testimony is private, and he took an oath to not divulge any testimony from their proceedings. All attorneys, detectives, police officers, and Grand Jurors are also under the same oath. So while I have no knowledge of any individual cases, I do, however, know that reverse speech is helpful in some investigations.

I am so very proud of my husband's accomplishments in life, and my deepest regret is that I will never be able to watch him preside over his Jurors. Even as his wife, I am not allowed in that room.

So to be clear Karen, your husband was able to tell you that "reverse" speech analysis was helpful and considered in some cases, but was unable due to the private nature of the Grand Jury to give you any examples? Just curious

 

[Tricia]

I would like very much for the threads on reverse speech analysis to remain open. I find them very interesting.

My husband is the Grand Jury Foreman in our county. There are some police departments in the United States who find speech analysis to be helpful in their investigations. While not acceptable in a court of law, just like lie detector tests, they can help provide useful information for law enforcement.

Respectfully submitted
Karen

Speech Analysis and reverse speech are not even in the same universe.

Speech Analysis is a whole different animal and yes LE does use it from what I understand.

Very cool about you hubby. It's good he doesn't tell you anything although I am sure you are dyihg to know just like I would be

 

[Tricia]

Karen,

If you can provide one case where reverse speech was used as a tool then I will take a second look at this topic

 

[KOOL LOOK]

Grand Jury testimony is private, and he took an oath to not divulge any testimony from their proceedings. All attorneys, detectives, police officers, and Grand Jurors are also under the same oath. So while I have no knowledge of any individual cases, I do, however, know that reverse speech is helpful in some investigations.

I am so very proud of my husband's accomplishments in life, and my deepest regret is that I will never be able to watch him preside over his Jurors. Even as his wife, I am not allowed in that room.

Karen I certainly can understand. I'm proud of him, and of you for helping him keep his oath. I know I wouldn't be that supportive in secret, behind closed doors. :angel: I would at least be beggin for clues, since I'm such a real crime buff. But your response still helped me out in having an overall understanding. Guess you like real true crime too? That's good being the type of work he does, you guys are very compatible.

 

[Pondering Mind]

Human beings speak in FORWARD speech and motion for a reason. That is our way to speak. I do not believe for one second that a "reverse" pattern speech is what our "true" feelings are.

No offense, Shawn, but I have read up on this over and over again, seeing you on youtube and elsewhere. I still don't believe it and never will. I have an extremely open mind, and it just seems a bit like nonsense to me.
I cannot HEAR what you say people are saying--EVER. Not just in this case, but in any so-called analysis under this topic.

Frankly, I feel like I'm back in highschool trying to listen to a Pink Floyd album backwards and hearing nothing but gibberish.
MISTY IS THE KEY and she is lying. End of story. I don't care if anyone "hears" differently forwards, backwards, upside-down or sideways. Her FORWARD speech and body language tell me enough.

knub si siht

bbm~
badme..isty-may is-a e-they e-kay :crazy:...sorry I couldn't resist!