GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #2

[SouthAussie]

Otto. I think you hit it right on the money. I am an American person of color and know for a fact that some youth of African descent are constantly challenging peers, esp. insecure cool-wanna-be's, about whether they're really "black enough," or just an "Oreo..." Black on the outside, yet White on the inside. This form of bullying has been going on for a looong time. So I can see Heather, who hated her mom, identifying with the most bad-azz Blacks she could find. Too bad she didn't know or identify with more people like my family or friends...or her own half siblings.

Thanks for this explanation, FormerOakParker. :seeya:

So, perhaps embarrassed by her white mother, went into full rebellion, wanted ‘her’ money so she could fund these loser rappers’ rise to fame and fortune, wanted her baby so she could fit in better ... be less of an Oreo.

She certainly stepped far away from the upbringing she had been given.

I can only imagine the ‘prestige’ she would have achieved if she had been able to get her hands on 'her' money ... or even worse, get away with murdering her mother and getting her hands on the money.

 

[nightwatch]

Thanks for this explanation, FormerOakParker. :seeya:

So, perhaps embarrassed by her white mother, went into full rebellion, wanted ‘her’ money so she could fund these loser rappers’ rise to fame and fortune, wanted her black baby so she could fit in better ... be less of an Oreo.

I can only imagine the ‘prestige’ she would have achieved if she had been able to get her hands on 'her' money ... or even worse, get away with murdering her mother and getting her hands on the money.

Idk folks this killer was a bad azz since she was young. I think this theory is one of convenience. Jmo

ciao

 

[otto]

Otto. I think you hit it right on the money. I am an American person of color and know for a fact that some youth of African descent are constantly challenging peers, esp. insecure cool-wanna-be's, about whether they're really "black enough," or just an "Oreo..." Black on the outside, yet White on the inside. This form of bullying has been going on for a looong time. So I can see Heather, who hated her mom, identifying with the most bad-azz Blacks she could find. Too bad she didn't know or identify with more people like my family or friends...or her own half siblings.

Thank you! That puts the Heather that I see in perspective. It really unfortunate that children are put in that position. I think that more contact with her half siblings would have helped Heather feel more like she fit in without acting out.

 

[Hiandmighty]

It does seem odd that she was deprived of a sense of family because it appears that she had no relationship with her half-siblings. Perhaps having extended family in her life could have grounded her.

 

[Kamille]

Idk folks this killer was a bad azz since she was young. I think this theory is one of convenience. Jmo

ciao

No doubt she had problems from a young age and a very poor attitude towards the "well to do" lifestyle she had laid out for her by her mother and father. She wanted the money for sure, but not the education and class status that usually goes along with it. Now whether that is because she was kept from those who were part of her black heritage and she had some identity issues is a question I'm sure must have come up in some of her counselling sessions. You'd have thought someone would have picked up on that along the way and tried to help rectify it. But it appears there was no love lost between SWM and JM's family so they were not part of HM's life. We don't know why and we can only speculate, which I choose not to do as they have maintained their silence and right to privacy throughout this and I respect that.

But I do agree that I think she sought out this kind of "wrong crowd" and gangsta wanna be lifestyle because of her attitude, she did not acquire this attitude because she accidentally fell in with the wrong crowd.

MOO

 

[FormerOakParker]

Idk folks this killer was a bad azz since she was young. I think this theory is one of convenience. Jmo

ciao

Nightwatch, I am torn about who is most at fault, and will try to find the exact news story that quotes a friend/neighbor who knew HM from early childhood. But, until then, I think she said that going back to early childhood/ kindergarten, Heather did whatever she wanted. Neither Sheila nor James EVER corrected her or set ANY boundaries. When Heather hit middle school, everything seemed to hit the fan...though it would actually take several years for us to see police reports. James was in a wheelchair, and had emotionally checked-out. Sheila was most likely full-throttle into menopause and dealing with larger-than-life tantrums from Heather while providing fulltime care giving to James. About this time, Heather, who never had anyone say "No" somehow thought it was okay to have boys over for sex. These boys stole from the house and told Sheila that Heather was their "Ho."...What I'm trying to say is I'm not sure if Heather was a born bad seed or was she cultivated to be one?

 

[SouthAussie]

According to the demographics of Oak Park, HM was certainly in a minority group. Only 3.6% of the residents are a mix of two or more races.

With her father spoiling her rotten (as we suspect), then perhaps being left with no other role model of that portion of her heritage to create a balance for her after he died, due to the apparent estrangement from her half-siblings .....

As of the 2010 census there were 51,878 people, 22,670 households, and 13,037 families residing in the village. The population density was 11,037.9 people per square mile. The racial makeup of the village was 67.7% White, 21.7% African American, 0.2% American Indian, 4.8% Asian, 2.0% some other race, and 3.6% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 6.8% of the population. 12.7% spoke a language other than English at home.

http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Park,_Illinois

 

[FormerOakParker]

Thank you! That puts the Heather that I see in perspective. It really unfortunate that children are put in that position. I think that more contact with her half siblings would have helped Heather feel more like she fit in without acting out.

I agree. Yet we see from a police report that Sheila actively prevented visitation from one of Heather's brothers. Not sure if there was animosity between Sheila and the former wife, or if Sheila was just insecure and wanted to eradicate memories of James' past wives and families.

 

[RR0004]

Idk folks this killer was a bad azz since she was young. I think this theory is one of convenience. Jmo

ciao

You're right in one respect, it goes far beyond being embarassed by her mother...she truly hated her mother. I've seen it with my own (biracial) nieces. The "whiter" of my nieces could identify with her mother better than my other niece- who with her displaced anger, grew to hate her "white" sister. As she got older, she was desperate to relate to her mother, and the hatred became more evident when her African-American father was no longer in the picture. But, unlike Heather, she turned her hatred inward toward self-loathing. A lot of issues when she was younger, better now that she's an adult. I, too, wish she had gotten the help she desperately needed. However, I don't think we can explain away HM's behavior as being a result of one thing or another. Regardless, of her family dynamics, IMHO, she's one mentally screwed up girl.

 

[RR0004]

I agree. Yet we see from a police report that Sheila actively prevented visitation from one of Heather's brothers. Not sure if there was animosity between Sheila and the former wife, or if Sheila was just insecure and wanted to eradicate memories of James' past wives and families.

Just because it was reported to the police that way, doesn't mean that the event actually happened that way. Divorce is ugly.
Do we even know the age difference between Heather and her siblings?

 

[SouthAussie]

Just because it was reported to the police that way, doesn't mean that the event actually happened that way. Divorce is ugly.
Do we even know the age difference between Heather and her siblings?

Sounds as though the older half-siblings may not even have lived close by ...

Mack has several half-siblings from her father's first marriage, though she has had little contact with them since his death. Her half sister Katherine Mack, who lives in New York, said she hasn't seen Heather Mack in more than a decade.

http://www.zoominfo.com/p/Heather-Mack/-1992538882

Says something else about the older half-siblings in this article, but I can't see it because I am not in the US :sigh: "Premium content is currently available only to users within the United States"

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-bali-suitcase-death-mack-0816-20140817-story.html

 

[Hiandmighty]

I believe they are mistaken about the half brother dying because that obit says he is survived by his parents who live in laurel, ms. This guy died July 2014. Can't be the half-brother.

 

[Kamille]

Heather Mack vines are here:
https://vine.co/u/940463768373178368
Unlike what I previously said, she actually does include the downtown Chicago Hotel arrest Vine. Maybe she was proud of it to show she was a "down sista."

Those look like "revines". Vines from others that she "revined"? Anyone have the link to her original vines with her and her mother in them?

 

[gitana1]

Unbelievable!: Friends who partied with Heather and Tommie at Chicago hotel on Sheila's stolen credit card publicly support Heather:
http://kollegekidd.com/news/thot-bo...nd-stuffing-mom-body-in-suitcase-in-indonesia

But hey, didn't ya' know she's their "homie"? I mean, it's all cool. They know her attitude and what it do.

I remember there was some confusion earlier, about whether Sheila gave birth to Heather, or adopted her. Was that ever clarified?

I am very curious because I am trying to understand the relationship dynamics.

I think it was a stupid mistake by one paper who made an assumption because she's black and her mom white. It's very clear from various reports that Sheila gave birth to her. Plus, she looks do much like both her parents.

What a bunch of losers! They have the emotional intelligence of 5 year olds.

I couldn't watch the whole thing. Just horrible. And I really couldn't stand their constant and gratuitous use of the "N" word. No talent. Just crassness. I didn't like the use of a baby in it either, held by a woman who was yelling. Just, yuck.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Nightwatch, I am torn about who is most at fault, and will try to find the exact news story that quotes a friend/neighbor who knew HM from early childhood. But, until then, I think she said that going back to early childhood/ kindergarten, Heather did whatever she wanted. Neither Sheila nor James EVER corrected her or set ANY boundaries. When Heather hit middle school, everything seemed to hit the fan...though it would actually take several years for us to see police reports. James was in a wheelchair, and had emotionally checked-out. Sheila was most likely full-throttle into menopause and dealing with larger-than-life tantrums from Heather while providing fulltime care giving to James. About this time, Heather, who never had anyone say "No" somehow thought it was okay to have boys over for sex. These boys stole from the house and told Sheila that Heather was their "Ho."...What I'm trying to say is I'm not sure if Heather was a born bad seed or was she cultivated to be one?

HM sounds simply like another case of "affluenza"

 

[FigTree]

Just my opinion, but I think that Heathers 'friends' would have been drawn to her because her father had been a composer. She had some heritage credibility within the music industry - though the styles couldn't be further apart - at that age, anyone with a 'famed' connection will do. Maybe it was used as leverage by Heather - along with the so called wealth Heather said she had. Fraudulently spending on partying with her friends on Sheila's credit card - who knows where Heather said about that money - she could have made out it was hers.
Yep, these people would have sucked up to Heather. Who knows what Heather said or promised them when she was soon to be 'cashed up'.

 

[nightwatch]

Nightwatch, I am torn about who is most at fault, and will try to find the exact news story that quotes a friend/neighbor who knew HM from early childhood. But, until then, I think she said that going back to early childhood/ kindergarten, Heather did whatever she wanted. Neither Sheila nor James EVER corrected her or set ANY boundaries. When Heather hit middle school, everything seemed to hit the fan...though it would actually take several years for us to see police reports. James was in a wheelchair, and had emotionally checked-out. Sheila was most likely full-throttle into menopause and dealing with larger-than-life tantrums from Heather while providing fulltime care giving to James. About this time, Heather, who never had anyone say "No" somehow thought it was okay to have boys over for sex. These boys stole from the house and told Sheila that Heather was their "Ho."...What I'm trying to say is I'm not sure if Heather was a born bad seed or was she cultivated to be one?

Oh wait!!!! I had not read or heard any of this juiciness. Her bed buddies were stealing from Sheila's home, and HM was their ho...
There is so much back story in this case, but one thing we know HM & TS killed Mrs Mack I want justice for her.

I look at HM pics and I see medusa. We all know what happened to her. Lol. Jmo


ciao

 

[Kamille]

Just going through the police reports as I really didn't get far with them before. There are several references (whited out of course) to an actual "condition" that HM had. SWM and HM spent a lot of time in what appears to be both public and private therapy.

No excuse I know, but I do believe that HM has some named personality disorder that she was being treated for but of course is not curable. No way was she just an "out of control" spoiled teenager. Well she was that, but I do believe her disorder made her 10x worse.

MOO

 

[Curious Me]

Wait, can I use a new word I learned.

Maybe she is just a thot!

:yeahthat:

 

[FormerOakParker]

Nightwatch, I am torn about who is most at fault, and will try to find the exact news story that quotes a friend/neighbor who knew HM from early childhood. But, until then, I think she said that going back to early childhood/ kindergarten, Heather did whatever she wanted. Neither Sheila nor James EVER corrected her or set ANY boundaries. When Heather hit middle school, everything seemed to hit the fan...though it would actually take several years for us to see police reports. James was in a wheelchair, and had emotionally checked-out. Sheila was most likely full-throttle into menopause and dealing with larger-than-life tantrums from Heather while providing fulltime care giving to James. About this time, Heather, who never had anyone say "No" somehow thought it was okay to have boys over for sex. These boys stole from the house and told Sheila that Heather was their "Ho."...What I'm trying to say is I'm not sure if Heather was a born bad seed or was she cultivated to be one?

The comments section here site a friend from early childhood as saying: "Anyone who saw mother and daughter interact when Heather was only 5 or 6 would have guessed that there were going to be problems. Mother let child do whatever she wanted to do" from http://www.oakpark.com/News/Article...ct-punched,-bit-mother,-according-to-police-/
James Mack's despondence was documented in court records...will try to find them, time permitting, as well as the interview with friends describing heather middle school years.