GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #3

[gitana1]

Is it possible that these lawyers are hedging their bets that HM walks away from any serious charges here? Hoping for her to be out of that prison within months to return home and use them to start fighting for her inheritance?

I really see this as what they believe will be a short term solution to the problem they have of financing her for the next few months, including their own travel back there during or after the trial?

It IS outrageous and despicable. Takes "ambulance chasers" to a whole new level IMO

MOO

I think all they want or expect out of it is just what we saw - a picture of the attorney standing with a high profile client. That is seriously the best advertising a round trip ticket to Indonesia can pay for.

 

[Kamille]

I think all they want or expect out of it is just what we saw - a picture of the attorney standing with a high profile client. That is seriously the best advertising a round trip ticket to Indonesia can pay for.

Except that she's not really that high profile. Pretty much the only people interested in this case are the dozen or so people here and a handful of others who comment on periodic articles. IMO the few attempts they've made at getting their photos in the papers (in this case a local weekly publication) relating to this case has brought them nothing but really bad press. They've both been dismissed as being not very good at their jobs. Can't see how that can be good for business. :waitasec:

MOO

 

[gracehatter]

Something needs to be done. But I'm not sure what.

I'm stuck there as well. A Guardianship is probably the only device I can think of short of adoption. If both parents recieve a significant sentence or to death, in the US in many states this would be enough to start proceedings to terminate the parental rights. But again we run into the pesky jurisdiction problem in determining what law rules in respect to the baby and I'm sure HM and her supporters will fight for nothing less than being able to keep the child, HM will never give up that baby willingly unless there is something significant in it for her. I'm just not sure at this point who will have jurisdiction and don't have the tiime to bone up on it, maybe someone else can.

 

[gitana1]

Except that she's not really that high profile. Pretty much the only people interested in this case are the dozen or so people here and a handful of others who comment on periodic articles. IMO the few attempts they've made at getting their photos in the papers (in this case a local weekly publication) relating to this case has brought them nothing but really bad press. They've both been dismissed as being not very good at their jobs. Can't see how that can be good for business. :waitasec:

MOO

She's in the news. That's high profile. And every month there are several articles about this case in various periodicals. News organizations know what they're doing and who their market is and they don't waste much time on issues no one cares about. They know exactly how many "clicks" a story is getting. Clearly this case gets a lot of attention because there are hundreds of articles about it.

And the lawyers don't care about criticism from a few people on the Internet. They want their names out there. That's all they care about. Each time some smarmy lawyer befouls a case I end up discussing this because it seems hard to imagine why they would work for free and what's in it for them in the face of criticism. But their market is crooks. And crooks ate notoriously untintelligebt. When they get into trouble they call a name they know. It's that simple.

Did you know that it used to be considered totally unethical for a lawyer to ever advertise? That's why the term "ambulance chase"came in vogue. Scummy lawyers would scour accidents handing out their cards because they couldn't advertise in newspapers or otherwise. Now, they just need the bare minimum
association with anyone who has been in the news and it results in an avalanche of business. Regardless of their abilities. Ick.

I'm stuck there as well. A Guardianship is probably the only device I can think of short of adoption. If both parents recieve a significant sentence or to death, in the US in many states this would be enough to start proceedings to terminate the parental rights. But again we run into the pesky jurisdiction problem in determining what law rules in respect to the baby and I'm sure HM and her supporters will fight for nothing less than being able to keep the child, HM will never give up that baby willingly unless there is something significant in it for her. I'm just not sure at this point who will have jurisdiction and don't have the tiime to bone up on it, maybe someone else can.

You're right. The baby is her meal ticket to more luxuries and a better prison life. No one cares about the spoiled best but people care about babies. So they will support the mom. She will never give that up.

 

[FigTree]

Is it possible that these lawyers are hedging their bets that HM walks away from any serious charges here? Hoping for her to be out of that prison within months to return home and use them to start fighting for her inheritance?

I really see this as what they believe will be a short term solution to the problem they have of financing her for the next few months, including their own travel back there during or after the trial?

It IS outrageous and despicable. Takes "ambulance chasers" to a whole new level IMO

MOO

My bold...
There does seem to be something about the 'confidence' in the case from the US legal Team that makes me think they are hedging bets - - as you say - or they have made a deal which they are pre-empting an outcome and already preparing funds for that amount of time. If it ends up being 15 months - I'll fall over.

I think the Legals feel that if they can get a very lean conviction HM will have more of a chance of collecting her inheritance, or if HM keeps Stella for as long as possible that that any inheritance that is going to Stella will stay in the immediate family (HM).
And that's another concerning point - 'lets use the baby as a means to the money'.

Who is looking out independently for Stella's rights.
I'm hoping that anything that this baby is entitled to isn't whittled away by her Lawyer and her mother.
Who is the Trustee for this baby? Cleavage Lawyer? silenced: Bite my tongue)

 

[Kamille]

My bold...
There does seem to be something about the 'confidence' in the case from the US legal Team that makes me think they are hedging bets - - as you say - or they have made a deal which they are pre-empting an outcome and already preparing funds for that amount of time. If it ends up being 15 months - I'll fall over.

I think the Legals feel that if they can get a very lean conviction HM will have more of a chance of collecting her inheritance, or if HM keeps Stella for as long as possible that that any inheritance that is going to Stella will stay in the immediate family (HM).
And that's another concerning point - 'lets use the baby as a means to the money'.

Who is looking out independently for Stella's rights.
I'm hoping that anything that this baby is entitled to isn't whittled away by her Lawyer and her mother.
Who is the Trustee for this baby? Cleavage Lawyer? silenced: Bite my tongue)

I does seem like they may "know something". And given what we've heard about bribes in the court system there, it bothers me.

If HM does not face charges in the death of her mother she WILL inherit the estate. There would be no reason for her not to. And while she may be fighting SWM's family (and I hope they have a lawyer who is already working on a wrongful death civil suit against her) for that money, she will likely get the money before the family has a chance to get a ruling on a civil suit. If they even choose to do that.

But of course no one in Bali needs to know about that possibility. Just knowing that if she does not get charged in the death of her mother she will be a rich young lady might be enough?

MOO

 

[Kamille]

The fund raising states "not active" now. But it's still up. :waitasec:

 

[jerseygirl48]

I am VERY hopeful that evidence from the FBI (included in items handed over to prosecutors, per at least one of last week's news sources) will be text messages that indicate premeditation. Evidence from the FBI should be USA-based, right? I think it will include the police reports of past violence ... but keeping fingers crossed that phone/text/email/etc included as well.

 

[gitana1]

I does seem like they may "know something". And given what we've heard about bribes in the court system there, it bothers me.

If HM does not face charges in the death of her mother she WILL inherit the estate. There would be no reason for her not to. And while she may be fighting SWM's family (and I hope they have a lawyer who is already working on a wrongful death civil suit against her) for that money, she will likely get the money before the family has a chance to get a ruling on a civil suit. If they even choose to do that.

But of course no one in Bali needs to know about that possibility. Just knowing that if she does not get charged in the death of her mother she will be a rich young lady might be enough?

MOO

Hi friend! I feel I keep contradicting you of late. I hope you don't mind! Have pity on me!!!!
But I think they should be able to keep her from collecting on her mother's estate pending a wrongful death suit. They would need to request an injunction in probate court and since I think Sheila appointed her brother as executor, he would be in a great position to do that. Also, at least in Califonia, probate cases are notoriously slooooooooow. I almost think a wrongful death suit would be exhausted first.

I really think these questionable people are in it for the publicity alone!

 

[Kamille]

Hi friend! I feel I keep contradicting you of late. I hope you don't mind! Have pity on me!!!!
But I think they should be able to keep her from collecting on her mother's estate pending a wrongful death suit. They would need to request an injunction in probate court and since I think Sheila appointed her brother as executor, he would be in a great position to do that. Also, at least in Califonia, probate cases are notoriously slooooooooow. I almost think a wrongful death suit would be exhausted first.

I really think these questionable people are in it for the publicity alone!

Hi gitana :wave:

I'm looking for people to contradict me to figure out what these two are up to and who better to do that than a lawyer themselves. :floorlaugh:

So, because I'm not from the US, can you tell me how these "trusts" work? Are they exempt from probate? Seems that SWM had set up some kind of estate trust, likely for HM?

Hopefully the other's can help out with information on that. I have no idea how that works.

TIA

 

[Kamille]

I am VERY hopeful that evidence from the FBI (included in items handed over to prosecutors, per at least one of last week's news sources) will be text messages that indicate premeditation. Evidence from the FBI should be USA-based, right? I think it will include the police reports of past violence ... but keeping fingers crossed that phone/text/email/etc included as well.

I guess we'd have to know how far advanced the Indonesian authorities are on electronic forensics? Would they ask for help from the FBI for this? Or would that seem offensive? Did they just ask the FBI to do some background research on the dynamics of these three? Or did they also ask for help retrieving any deleted messages from the phones? And possible computer messages? I don't think we've heard anything about search warrants in the US have we?

MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

I guess we'd have to know how far advanced the Indonesian authorities are on electronic forensics? Would they ask for help from the FBI for this? Or would that seem offensive? Did they just ask the FBI to do some background research on the dynamics of these three? Or did they also ask for help retrieving any deleted messages from the phones? And possible computer messages? I don't think we've heard anything about search warrants in the US have we?

MOO

I would guess that the FBI would have been able to give them a wealth of electronic data that they would not have been able to achieve for themselves easily. I am not saying that they are not capable of that part of the investigation, but I think their resources in that area would be limited and would probably not be availed for this kind of case.

 

[ajaylee]

Local authorities may feel they have a strong enough case without relying too heavily on FBI-supplied electronic data (text messages, etc.)

From their perspective, in a resort city that sees thousands of tourists every year, it absolutely looks pre-meditated. There's no other explanation that makes sense. No one comes halfway around the world for a 48-72 hour 'vacation' in Bali. Way too much time and money. That smacks more of an quickie drug run - or, in this case, a 'murder mom' trip.

TS will blame his late arrival on the passport delay, but the judges may decide that this just doesn't sound plausible. Absent a compelling reason otherwise (wedding, funeral, etc.), most folks in his situation would have just cancelled the trip, however reluctantly.

 

[Kamille]

Local authorities may feel they have a strong enough case without relying too heavily on FBI-supplied electronic data (text messages, etc.)

From their perspective, in a resort city that sees thousands of tourists every year, it absolutely looks pre-meditated. There's no other explanation that makes sense. No one comes halfway around the world for a 48-72 hour 'vacation' in Bali. Way too much time and money. That smacks more of an quickie drug run - or, in this case, a 'murder mom' trip.

TS will blame his late arrival on the passport delay, but the judges may decide that this just doesn't sound plausible. Absent a compelling reason otherwise (wedding, funeral, etc.), most folks in his situation would have just cancelled the trip, however reluctantly.

Unfortunately this could also work in a scenario where only TS was planning to murder his "baby mama's mama" so that she would inherit the money and they could get married and live happily ever after on the inheritance. Hopefully the pictures of them reuniting will put any thoughts of that to rest.

I know HM's lawyers tried to suggest she was acting like a "robot" after the murder, doing what she did in the hours that followed, but she had plenty of time to think about what TS supposedly had done during the months they were apart. And to think of what his actions caused...the death of her mother, a woman she supposed loved and was her only supporter and family really. And his supposed dominance over her to try to cover this up. She should have been appalled that he had somehow enlisted her help, in her shock and horror, to bend her mother into that suitcase and try to get away with the murder. So if she wanted to make anyone believe that she was horrified and had nothing to do with the actual murder, not to mention was shocked and just helped with the disposal like a robot, then those pictures of her google eyes for TS when they were reunited pretty much should have taken that possibility out of the equation.

MOO

 

[Curious Me]

I don't know if the Judges will see any evidence that supports how premeditated by these two this crime looks. I think Heather made a call to Tommy's room while Sheila was sleeping. Wonder if Sheila was wearing night sleeping clothes. Sheila didn't know Tommy was going to show up in Bali, and she didn't know he was going to enter the room. Heather did. Tommy was seen hiding a fruit bowl under his shirt and entered the room. The fruit bowl handle was used as one of the weapons that killed Sheila. There's still question of whether Heather actually needed a replacement fruit bowl because she had already knocked out her mother with hers.

In general, I would think the Judges would think it is very suspicious that either Heather or Tommy rushed a visit with Sheila so soon after his arrival and the upset in the lobby. Also, Heather did not act like a robot after stuffing her mother in a suitcase, not when trying to check them out of the hotel, etc.,

IMO, just that one "it" text tells a lot about where Heather's head was at before Tommy even got to Bali. Nobody tells her what to do, and that would include Tommy. She instigated him to take part in the murder of her mother. I hope I don't have to see Heather get away with the murder of her own mother because I'm convinced that is what she wanted. MOO

 

[Kamille]

I don't know if the Judges will see any evidence that supports how premeditated by these two this crime looks. I think Heather made a call to Tommy's room while Sheila was sleeping. Wonder if Sheila was wearing night sleeping clothes. Sheila didn't know Tommy was going to show up in Bali, and she didn't know he was going to enter the room. Heather did. Tommy was seen hiding a fruit bowl under his shirt and entered the room. The fruit bowl handle was used as one of the weapons that killed Sheila. There's still question of whether Heather actually needed a replacement fruit bowl because she had already knocked out her mother with hers.

In general, I would think the Judges would think it is very suspicious that either Heather or Tommy rushed a visit with Sheila so soon after his arrival and the upset in the lobby. Also, Heather did not act like a robot after stuffing her mother in a suitcase, not when trying to check them out of the hotel, etc.,

IMO, just that one "it" text tells a lot about where Heather's head was at before Tommy even got to Bali. Nobody tells her what to do, and that would include Tommy. She instigated him to take part in the murder of her mother. I hope I don't have to see Heather get away with the murder of her own mother because I'm convinced that is what she wanted. MOO

We also should take into account that we proved somewhere back in these threads that TS was on his phone around 4:30am? Posting to facebook I think? Or was it even later? Can't remember. So we know he didn't sleep much, if at all. He probably had slept on the flight so he wasn't tired anyway. And then there's the wake up call placed by SWM at 6:45am. So she obviously had spend most of the evening/early morning arguing with her daughter about the current situation, in their room, and was ready to get some sleep herself at 6:45am. Most likely HM was also awake all night arguing with her mother. For reasons that we are not aware of, SWM apparently needed to be up by 10am. So it appears she was going to try to get 3 hours sleep before something that she must have had planned for that day.

So it appears that SWM went to bed, in her nightclothes (probably just a nightshirt since she was found "half naked" in the suitcase), around 6:45am. So WHAT were HM and TS doing at this time? It was only about an hour and a half later that TS showed up to "make amends" at SWM's suite wasn't it? With a heavy iron handled fruit bowl under his shirt. While SWM had probably just gotten into a deep sleep. And HM had waited until such a time to call TS down to the room to talk to her? Yeah okay then. You would have thought that HM would have just left the suite she was sharing with her mother at that point and met up with TS in his room for a little action. So why didn't she? Why did she wait until her mother was likely fully asleep and then call TS down to their suite? Premeditated on the part of both of them IMO.

MOO

 

[Quester]

O/T: I posted the following on 8/22/14:

O/T - The following article talks about a March of this year murder that happened in Jakarta. The article describes what sounds like many eerie similarities to the Bali Suitcase Murder. Will be interesting to see how the "lovebirds" case/trial progresses to see if it foreshadows what will happen in the Bali Suitcase Murder.

Lovebirds face life sentences for murder
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/08/20/lovebirds-face-life-sentences-murder.html​

* * *

Here's the verdict/sentence/info on the former "Lovebirds":

12/9/14: Ade Sara murder lovebirds each receive 20 years in prison
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/...r-lovebirds-each-receive-20-years-prison.html

12/10/14: Killer couple sentenced to 20 years in prison
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/12/10/killer-couple-sentenced-20-years-prison.html
​

 

[Kamille]

O/T: I posted the following on 8/22/14:

O/T - The following article talks about a March of this year murder that happened in Jakarta. The article describes what sounds like many eerie similarities to the Bali Suitcase Murder. Will be interesting to see how the "lovebirds" case/trial progresses to see if it foreshadows what will happen in the Bali Suitcase Murder.

Lovebirds face life sentences for murder
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/08/20/lovebirds-face-life-sentences-murder.html​

* * *

Here's the verdict/sentence/info on the former "Lovebirds":

12/9/14: Ade Sara murder lovebirds each receive 20 years in prison
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/...r-lovebirds-each-receive-20-years-prison.html

12/10/14: Killer couple sentenced to 20 years in prison
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/12/10/killer-couple-sentenced-20-years-prison.html
​

OMG. They only got 20 years for the premeditated torture and murder of a 19yr old girl? This is not encouraging. :notgood:

 

[RK77]

I think there are two big differences with that case from the Jakarta Post and HM's situation.

1) HM case involved the brutal death of her own mother...a fact which I am sure will weigh heavier on the judges

2) The mother of the victim in the Jakarta post case indicated to the court that she did not want the criminals to face the maximum penalty...so perhaps that was enough to sway the judges decision.

Hopefully nobody shows up begging the court to spare Syd and Nancy the maximum penalty they rightfully deserve.

 

[Curious Me]

O/T: I posted the following on 8/22/14:

O/T - The following article talks about a March of this year murder that happened in Jakarta. The article describes what sounds like many eerie similarities to the Bali Suitcase Murder. Will be interesting to see how the "lovebirds" case/trial progresses to see if it foreshadows what will happen in the Bali Suitcase Murder.

Lovebirds face life sentences for murder
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/08/20/lovebirds-face-life-sentences-murder.html​

* * *

Here's the verdict/sentence/info on the former "Lovebirds":

12/9/14: Ade Sara murder lovebirds each receive 20 years in prison
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/...r-lovebirds-each-receive-20-years-prison.html

12/10/14: Killer couple sentenced to 20 years in prison
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/12/10/killer-couple-sentenced-20-years-prison.html
​

OMG. They only got 20 years for the premeditated torture and murder of a 19yr old girl? This is not encouraging. :notgood:

Thanks Quester. I remembered this as being a bizarre and unnecessary murder, and now reading how they tortured that poor girl makes me sick.

Kamille voiced exactly what my mind was thinking. This is not encouraging. Only twenty years?!! These are shockingly short sentences considering how relentless they were in torturing her until she died. If only, I wish the US duo smuggled some drugs to ensure harsh sentences. Apparently, in their legal system, torture and murder is not as bad as drug smuggling.