GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #3

[IslandLover]

Welcome IslandLover :welcome:

I think Orange Tabby cleared that up in post #526 and it does appear that the Daily Mail actually quoted a commenter to The Jakarta Post. Hard to believe isn't it? I don't think I've ever seen even the worst tabloid directly quoting a commenter on some other news sites article.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts on some of this other news we've been getting in from Bali recently.

MOO

Thanks for the welcome! I've been following this case from the beginning (in lurk mode), as well as another one about the recent murders of two Brits in Thailand. I'm interested because I know both locations well. I don't think I can really add anything to what others have said here but I couldn't resist taking a dig at the Daily Mail. Their standard of journalism most of the time is appalling, although I will admit to reading it

 

[Orange Tabby]

Thanks for the welcome! I've been following this case from the beginning (in lurk mode), as well as another one about the recent murders of two Brits in Thailand. I'm interested because I know both locations well. I don't think I can really add anything to what others have said here but I couldn't resist taking a dig at the Daily Mail. Their standard of journalism most of the time is appalling, although I will admit to reading it

I read it too (with a pinched nose). One very valuable thing about the MailOnline is that they publish every darn photo they can get their grubby little paws on. No one publishes more pictures than they do. Sometimes there's useful info in those pix. (Many of the participants in this thread are extremely good at gleaning important and interesting facts from photos. They have eyes I envy.)

Have you by any chance been to any of the three hotels in Bali which feature in this case?

What do you make of the taxi driver waiting so long with that suitcase in his trunk? Are such drivers inured to being subservient to rich tourists and therefore ready to put up with nearly anything?

Do police in Denpasar regularly contradict themselves all the time? Is that part and parcel of their devious method of crime fighting?

 

[PastTense]

There is, however, DNA testing in Jakarta. Any items requiring this kind of testing would just be forwarded on there ... same country.

Bali is more of a tourist resort island, Jakarta is the capital.

There is also the fact that the FBI is assisting in the case; they certainly have DNA capability.

But I haven't heard anything about what the FBI has been doing recently in this case: any updates?

 

[RR0004]

It's not just us. Nobody seems to believe HM's and TS's stories and lies if you read the comments section.

Suspect in Bali Suitcase Murder Says Slur Sparked Anger
Includes some videos
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...9171.html?_osource=Newltr_Station_Hdlines_chi

I can't see anyone believing them. What a load of cr@p IMO.

 

[SouthAussie]

People magazine have released an article .. looks like they got all of their info from the Sydney Morning Herald article .. except this one statement.

"Schaefer's Chicago-based attorney Thomas Durkin declined to comment on the latest revelations."

http://www.people.com/article/bali-suitcase-murder-victim-killed-with-fruit-bowl


Can certainly see why Durkin would decline to comment. What intelligent supportive comment could he possibly make about that unbelievable hogwash?

 

[SouthAussie]

This article adds a couple more bits of info/discrepancy ...


Schaefer, at the urging of Heather, who was carrying his child, went to visit Wiese-Mack in room 317 at the hotel, carrying a bowl of fruit.

The decision to place Wiese-Mack's body in the suitcase was Schaefer's, added the attorney. (HM's attorney, of course )

http://bali-news-views.blogspot.com.au/2014/10/bali-suitcase-murder-chicago-socialite.html

 

[Curious Me]

I wish someone close to Sheila, a family member or close friend, could give a interview to People or the press debunking this hogwash that SWM would ever attack TS or utter that particular slur. I honestly don't know what the heck he was doing in her room when the poor lady needed to get some sleep. Their story is unbelievable as some innocent gesture that early in the morning. TS was only there six hours before SWM was dying!

Her brother said Sheila was looking forward to this vacation with her daughter. As it was, HM knew how to push her mother's buttons and she set it up to do just that, having TS show up without enough money to pay for his own expenses, etc.,

We know that throughout all those 911 calls in the past Sheila was never the one to be attacking her daughter. Heather was the one attacking her mother. Even if Sheila was bipolar, as HM threw in for effect, Sheila was not the one to do the attacking during those 86 calls to 911.

I just think it's unfair to repeat this couple's lies and be blaming Sheila for something that probably didn't even happen. There was no slur, the fruit bowl was only intended as a weapon, the gift was bashes unto death, and these two premeditated murdering Sheila and they did it.

All of this is just MY OWN OPINION.

 

[SouthAussie]

I wish someone close to Sheila, a family member or close friend, could give a interview to People or the press debunking this hogwash that SWM would ever attack TS or utter that particular slur. I honestly don't know what the heck he was doing in her room when the poor lady needed to get some sleep. Their story is unbelievable as some innocent gesture that early in the morning. TS was only there six hours before SWM was dying!

Her brother said Sheila was looking forward to this vacation with her daughter. As it was, HM knew how to push her mother's buttons and she set it up to do just that, having TS show up without enough money to pay for his own expenses, etc.,

We know that throughout all those 911 calls in the past Sheila was never the one to be attacking her daughter. Heather was the one attacking her mother. Even if Sheila was bipolar, as HM threw in for effect, Sheila was not the one to do the attacking during those 86 calls to 911.

I just think it's unfair to repeat this couple's lies and be blaming Sheila for something that probably didn't even happen. There was no slur, the fruit bowl was only intended as a weapon, the gift was bashes unto death, and these two premeditated murdering Sheila and they did it.

All of this is just MY OWN OPINION.

Makes you wonder what is going on, doesn't it? Why is no-one defending Sheila? Why is no-one speaking out on her behalf? Why are they keeping quiet? Are they hoping that HM will be sent back to the US and be arrested at her entry point for the murder of her mother?

And Tommy's mother is happy to let him take the fall for this murder? She is not speaking out after this latest round of lies either.

 

[IslandLover]

Welcome IslandLover! I hope you find the water nice.

Your island isn't by any chance Bali?! (Ha ha ha, just joshin'. We welcome lovers of all islands.)

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome to this forum. I know Bali (and Lombok, and the Gili Islands) but I'm actually more familiar with Thailand and Malaysia. I've been travelling to S.E. Asia since the 1970s but it's been a long time since I visited Bali. I feel I know something of the Asian mindset now though.

 

[IslandLover]

I read it too (with a pinched nose). One very valuable thing about the MailOnline is that they publish every darn photo they can get their grubby little paws on. No one publishes more pictures than they do. Sometimes there's useful info in those pix. (Many of the participants in this thread are extremely good at gleaning important and interesting facts from photos. They have eyes I envy.)

Have you by any chance been to any of the three hotels in Bali which feature in this case?

What do you make of the taxi driver waiting so long with that suitcase in his trunk? Are such drivers inured to being subservient to rich tourists and therefore ready to put up with nearly anything?

Do police in Denpasar regularly contradict themselves all the time? Is that part and parcel of their devious method of crime fighting?

The MailOnline is one of the most popular online newspapers but some of their reporting is a joke. They get a lot of their information from facebook and twitter - but who doesn't nowadays.

I haven't stayed in any of the hotels mentioned in this case but have stayed in hotels of a similar standard to the St. Regis throughout S.E. Asia. What gets me about this case is that there has been no mention of guests in adjoining rooms and whether they heard anything. I find this very strange. If there had been arguments and fighting, even in the early hours of the morning, surely someone would have heard something. On the other hand I do understand that maybe tourists don't want to get involved in something which involves the police in a foreign country. Or, maybe there are more witnesses than we know about and these will be revealed when the case comes to court.

I don't know what to think about the taxi driver. Accounts on the length of time he waited vary. Also, was the taxi pre-booked (how and by whom?) or did TS and HM just hail one outside the reception area (there are usually plenty of taxis waiting outside these high-end hotels). Reports on this fact vary too but I suspect the latter. If they did pre-book it, then I think that adds to the "premeditation" theory. That he waited a long time for them is not unusual IMHO. I imagine taxi drivers ARE subservient to rich tourists at a hotel like the St. Regis.

Regarding the police, I'm comparing this case to the one in Koh Tao, Thailand where the police have behaved despicably. My conclusion is that I would have more faith in the police in Bali! However, contradicting themselves seems to follow a pattern in S.E. Asia. If you take these two cases and the case of the disappearance of flight MH370, the statements given out by the police and/or government spokespersons are contradicted or even denied the following day. On the other hand, I think that some of it may have something to do with mis-translation by the western media, i.e. "lost in translation?".

 

[Quester]

We've recently read:

[Tues, 8/12/14; ~8a According to a TS & HM agreed account:”... at 8am, HM, who is pregnant with TS' baby, had urged her boyfriend to visit SWM in her room. He had brought with him the fruit bowl — the property of the hotel — as a gift to a woman who souvenired hotel property wherever she stayed. That was the reason he was hiding the bowl under his shirt — it was not that he intended to kill her, the lawyer said.”]
​

Just a thought ...

~8am HM supposedly "urged" TS to visit the M's room [317]. Did HM also "urge" TS to bring the intact fruit bowl? Perhaps HM had already broken a glass item in the M's room [317], thought she had cleaned it up sufficiently, but needed a replacement item?

???

 

[IslandLover]

I've been thinking about this, and I'm not positive that they watched each other's reenactment. Yes, they first did HM, then TS. But when each of them was in their 'witness' role, they could have been made to wait outside the room, or in the other room (as in, one was reenacting in room 317, while the other was in room 616 .. then they swapped.) I'm sure they had their lawyer and translator with them, but I'm not sure that the other party was able to actually watch ... not that they'd need to if the lawyers are consulting among themselves privately. They would be prepped and primed by their lawyers.

AFAIK It's not been made clear in the media exactly how this "re-enactment" was carried out. Were they made to re-enact the crime together, or separately? If together, then this would be the first time they had met since they were arrested. If that is the case, then it is possible there could have been some "collusion" between them.

I know that in Thailand suspects are forced to carry out the re-enactment together if there is more than one suspect. I don't know how it works in Indonesia though.

 

[Kamille]

The MailOnline is one of the most popular online newspapers but some of their reporting is a joke. They get a lot of their information from facebook and twitter - but who doesn't nowadays.

I haven't stayed in any of the hotels mentioned in this case but have stayed in hotels of a similar standard to the St. Regis throughout S.E. Asia. What gets me about this case is that there has been no mention of guests in adjoining rooms and whether they heard anything. I find this very strange. If there had been arguments and fighting, even in the early hours of the morning, surely someone would have heard something. On the other hand I do understand that maybe tourists don't want to get involved in something which involves the police in a foreign country. Or, maybe there are more witnesses than we know about and these will be revealed when the case comes to court.

I don't know what to think about the taxi driver. Accounts on the length of time he waited vary. Also, was the taxi pre-booked (how and by whom?) or did TS and HM just hail one outside the reception area (there are usually plenty of taxis waiting outside these high-end hotels). Reports on this fact vary too but I suspect the latter. If they did pre-book it, then I think that adds to the "premeditation" theory. That he waited a long time for them is not unusual IMHO. I imagine taxi drivers ARE subservient to rich tourists at a hotel like the St. Regis.

Regarding the police, I'm comparing this case to the one in Koh Tao, Thailand where the police have behaved despicably. My conclusion is that I would have more faith in the police in Bali! However, contradicting themselves seems to follow a pattern in S.E. Asia. If you take these two cases and the case of the disappearance of flight MH370, the statements given out by the police and/or government spokespersons are contradicted or even denied the following day. On the other hand, I think that some of it may have something to do with mis-translation by the western media, i.e. "lost in translation?".

I liken the Daily Mail pictures to a group of websleuthers sitting around combing the internet for info. LOL But of course we would never just make stuff up to go along with the pictures we're finding. SMH

I posted earlier that one article did quote the Bali LE as saying they had interviewed 16 witnesses and they had more to speak to. That article was from the first couple of days after SWM was murdered. So I suppose it's possible that other guests were spoken to. But I also know what it's like in these high end hotels (not in SE Asia however) and that tourism is the most important thing to protect so unless a guest was willing to speak out on their own, I highly doubt LE went banging on doors. But I'm sure you can relate to the number of staff that would be milling around the hallways and gardens by 8:40am. Maids, room service, butlers, gardeners. There has to be someone who heard something. And if not? It wasn't an argument at all IMO. It was an ambush.

I don't see an issue at all with the taxi driver waiting an hour for them. Check out can take a while if the reception is busy and people are always forgetting stuff and they have to go back to their room, or get a last minute gift from the gift shop etc. But at that 1 hour mark it would seem a little excessive to a taxi driver with a loaded vehicle sitting and waiting for his fare. Apparently the original 2 hours we heard about seems to be a combination of the taxi driver waiting and then noticing the suitcase, and then the hotel staff/security trying to locate TS, HM and SWM. So two hours before they got police involved is not unusual. I think either TS or HM called down to the lobby to order a taxi so that it would be right there waiting for them to put that suitcase in as soon as they got to the lobby, or they ordered it when they got to the lobby and were trying to get the contents of the security box from the reception desk. Either way, in my experience, the taxi drivers who are called to these hotels from a location usually either on or just off property, need some form of acknowledgement that anyone who is loading suitcases into their taxi has to have checked out of the hotel and squared up the bill. Which TS and HM couldn't provide. And that is what thwarted them.

I've also followed (but not posted on) the murders in Koh Tao. Horrendous. I hope tourism in Thailand really takes a hit from that because it's just not safe. I know I'd never go there. And I don't see the Bali LE being as corrupt either. At least I hope not. But this is a whole different ball game because the perpetrator was also a tourist. So they don't have to protect their interests here.

MOO

 

[IslandLover]

I wish someone close to Sheila, a family member or close friend, could give a interview to People or the press debunking this hogwash that SWM would ever attack TS or utter that particular slur. I honestly don't know what the heck he was doing in her room when the poor lady needed to get some sleep. Their story is unbelievable as some innocent gesture that early in the morning. TS was only there six hours before SWM was dying!

Her brother said Sheila was looking forward to this vacation with her daughter. As it was, HM knew how to push her mother's buttons and she set it up to do just that, having TS show up without enough money to pay for his own expenses, etc.,

We know that throughout all those 911 calls in the past Sheila was never the one to be attacking her daughter. Heather was the one attacking her mother. Even if Sheila was bipolar, as HM threw in for effect, Sheila was not the one to do the attacking during those 86 calls to 911.

I just think it's unfair to repeat this couple's lies and be blaming Sheila for something that probably didn't even happen. There was no slur, the fruit bowl was only intended as a weapon, the gift was bashes unto death, and these two premeditated murdering Sheila and they did it.

All of this is just MY OWN OPINION.

I have an uneasy feeling that some of what has been now been reported concerning the "motive" for the crime may be partially true. I think it is possible that SvWM racially abused Tommy (sorry if I'm not popular for saying this) though perhaps not necessarily exactly as reported by HM. These things tend to come out in the heat of the moment and I expect the poor woman was at the end of her tether by that point. Besides, I imagine she despised TS's hip-hop gangsta culture. Also, wasn't SvWM shown to be calling HM names in one of the vines posted? However, this is NO reason to murder someone!

What I'm less convinced about is that SvWM "souveniered" hotel property all the time and would even consider taking a heavy glass fruit bowl home with her. Small items, maybe, but not something like that. Nowadays all high-end hotels have large notices in the room saying that if you take anything belonging to the hotel it will be charged to your hotel bill. They also offer you the choice of purchasing such items from the hotel shop. So, yes, I believe it was intended as a murder weapon.

Just where did the duct tape came from though? This has never been fully explained though and I presume/assume SvWM/HM brought it with them to Bali. Given the time frame between the arrival of TS in Bali and the murder there is no way that HM/TS could have gone out and bought it themselves. In my experience duct tape is not something that hotels routinely carry and it's not always that easy to find locally. It happened to us in Thailand last year when our suitcase got smashed. We had to make a special journey to a local hardware store to find something repair the case. I will remember in future to take duct tape on my travels!

I also question the bipolar claim made by HM. Maybe true, maybe not, but surely this could be verified by SvWM's doctor and/or family back in the U.S.A? This is not a condition that can be hidden easily but seriously, what real relevance does it have to the actual crime?

I do wonder whether the Bali police are really looking into the backgrounds of HM (violent past and character) and TS (various misdemeanours) or are they just taking the crime at face value, i.e. only concentrating on the events that happened on Bali? I suppose this will only be known when the case comes to court.

 

[Kamille]

I'd like to hear that a representative from Sheila's family has gone to Bali to be interviewed on her behalf. But then that's probably where the FBI come into this. The FBI did a second autopsy on behalf of her family. I would imagine they are the link between SWM's family and Bali LE, via the US Consulate and they are working behind the scenes to get information to them. Not everything has to play out in the media as much as we might like it to so we know what's going on. LOL

MOO

 

[Quester]

I wonder whose fingerprints were stuck all over the duct tape found with the body?

 

[Kamille]

I have an uneasy feeling that some of what has been now been reported concerning the "motive" for the crime may be partially true. I think it is possible that SvWM racially abused Tommy (sorry if I'm not popular for saying this) though perhaps not necessarily exactly as reported by HM. These things tend to come out in the heat of the moment and I expect the poor woman was at the end of her tether by that point. Besides, I imagine she despised TS's hip-hop gangsta culture. Also, wasn't SvWM shown to be calling HM names in one of the vines posted? However, this is NO reason to murder someone!

What I'm less convinced about is that SvWM "souveniered" hotel property all the time and would even consider taking a heavy glass fruit bowl home with her. Small items, maybe, but not something like that. Nowadays all high-end hotels have large notices in the room saying that if you take anything belonging to the hotel it will be charged to your hotel bill. They also offer you the choice of purchasing such items from the hotel shop. So, yes, I believe it was intended as a murder weapon.

Just where did the duct tape came from though? This has never been fully explained though and I presume/assume SvWM/HM brought it with them to Bali. Given the time frame between the arrival of TS in Bali and the murder there is no way that HM/TS could have gone out and bought it themselves. In my experience duct tape is not something that hotels routinely carry and it's not always that easy to find locally. It happened to us in Thailand last year when our suitcase got smashed. We had to make a special journey to a local hardware store to find something repair the case. I will remember in future to take duct tape on my travels!

I also question the bipolar claim made by HM. Maybe true, maybe not, but surely this could be verified by SvWM's doctor and/or family back in the U.S.A? This is not a condition that can be hidden easily but seriously, what real relevance does it have to the actual crime?

I do wonder whether the Bali police are really looking into the backgrounds of HM (violent past and character) and TS (various misdemeanours) or are they just taking the crime at face value, i.e. only concentrating on the events that happened on Bali? I suppose this will only be known when the case comes to court.

I think it's quite possible that SWM said some pretty nasty things to TS in the heat of the moment but I just don't see her saying anything racial like the "n" word. I can think of a lot of other things she may have called him that have nothing to do with race though. I think that was an HM "fib" to smear her mother, even in death. I also see those things being said during the argument the night before, not in the morning when HM "encouraged" him to come speak to her mother. Really? Since when would HM give a flying fig what her mother thought about anything or anyone? But after the argument the night before it may have become pretty apparent that she wasn't going to be embracing him into the family and that she wasn't going to be handing over cash to the new parent's. I don't even doubt that she suggested that HM get an abortion if she is not opposed to it which would explain the part about her "wanting to kill the baby". She likely saw this whole thing as HM throwing her life away on a no good gansta. Or maybe not and HM just threw that in too, to smear her mother. Anyway, it's after the initial argument that I see a plan brewing if there wasn't one already in place.

You'll notice that in the articles about the reconstruction they mention that TS was beside the bed when this altercation apparently started. They had to place him beside the bed because that's likely where it happened and they knew the evidence showed it. But in a large suite like that, why on earth would he have been anywhere near the bed? There is a full sitting area and you would walk at the foot of the bed to get around in the room. What possible reason would TS have for being beside the bed at 8:40am in the morning when SWM had just gone to bed around 7am? It also mentions that HM asked him to come down. So we know they were both on their phones. The FBI can get those deleted texts. Let's hope they were asked to.

The duct tape...every traveller discovers the benefits of carrying a roll eventually. LOL

I would think there would have to be a bipolar diagnosis on SWM for HM's lawyer to even allow her to put that in her statement. Although I hope there isn't and she's caught trying to "smear her mother" again. Same with the stealing of hotel items. Can you imagine how complex this case would be if it were being tried in the US? Trying to find stolen hotel items among SWM's possessions? LOL

However if it were being tried in the US, not one of those criminal records or HM's past behaviour would likely make it into the court and it would be tried just on the crime itself. So it will be interesting to see what happens. I believe in that Daily Mail article we've been discussing it says that "initial inquiries pointed to the daughter". Well we know those initial inquiries were the rumours and/or facts that they had received about HM's violent past with her mother. So they likely know about it. Now whether they can or will use it is something to be seen.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

I wonder whose fingerprints were stuck all over the duct tape found with the body?

Excellent question! If there is duct tape then there are fingerprints on it for sure. Although I'm still confused if HM was a robot who watched or a robot who helped with the stuffing of her mother's body in that suitcase. :thinking:

MOO

 

[Quester]

Sample small duct tape roll:

http://www.amazon.com/Adventure-Medical-Kits-Inches-Rolls/dp/B004H87UGS/

 

[Kamille]

A typical garden view suite at the St Regis Bali. Note the sitting area is the first thing you come to when entering the room. Why would you be visiting someone and be beside the bed? Not sure if they had a room with one king bed or two doubles but either way, why are you, as a guest, intruding into the bedroom area when you are there to "talk" to someone? Even heading towards the balcony does not place you "beside the bed".

http://www.tripadvisor.ca/ShowUserR...-Nusa_Dua_Nusa_Dua_Peninsula_Bali.html#photos