GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #3

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  • #601
Also in this article...

The police had also found broken glass and pieces of iron in both the victim’s room and Schaefer’s room. “From the crime scene, we found broken glass and pieces of iron from the same item in both the victim’s and Schaefer’s rooms,” he said.

So I'm guessing that he did bring the fruit bowl intact and they tried to pick up as many of the pieces as possible and return the item to TS's room.

I wondered about the glass fragments being found in both rooms!

So any guesses on when we might hear from the prosecutors? I was also wondering if anyone has run across any prior criminal cases tried in Indonesia involving Americans?
 
  • #602
This article also clears up the sequence and discrepancies with the luggage trolley....

The hotel CCTV footage, Sadiarta stated, showed Mack had fetched a luggage trolley from the lobby and brought it herself to her mother’s room.

Schaefer and Mack then took the suitcase (allegedly with the victim’s body in it) by trolley from the victim’s room to Schaefer’s room. Minutes later, the CCTV footage showed them bringing the suitcase from Schaefer’s room to the lobby, when they then placed it in the taxi trunk.


So Heather got a luggage trolley from the lobby and brought it to room 317 where they both put the suitcase on the trolley and then took the trolley up to TS's room (where they likely put the other two suitcases that they were taking for themselves on the trolley).

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/...sses-show-us-couple-s-involvement-police.html

MOO

I wonder what they would have done if they had found other guests in the lift? Doesn't bear thinking about, does it? :freakedout:
 
  • #603
Well, I’m still hoping that they try HM as the main perpetrator in Sheila’s murder.

Their initial thoughts were that HM was the perpetrator … they must have had a reason for this. Perhaps the length of time that Sheila had been dead, and no-one else was in the room then. And the fact that HM was frequently seen arguing with Sheila and acting bad-tempered. And the significant amount of blood on HM’s clothing, while TS only had some spots of blood on his jacket. And perhaps the fruit bowl from TS’ room was used as a replacement for the one that HM threw or swung at her mother’s face (though I don’t know if that would be provable).

They may be able to prove that HM wanted to get married in Bali, only her mother would not sign the documents allowing it. They may be able to prove that HM would inherit all of her mother’s estate if Sheila died. They may also question HM’s morals …. all of the documented previous violence against her mother … her pregnancy when she is not married (which is frowned upon in Indonesia) … her smoking cigarettes as a woman (also frowned upon in Indonesia).
 
  • #604
Well, I’m still hoping that they try HM as the main perpetrator in Sheila’s murder.

Their initial thoughts were that HM was the perpetrator … they must have had a reason for this. Perhaps the length of time that Sheila had been dead, and no-one else was in the room then. And the fact that HM was frequently seen arguing with Sheila and acting bad-tempered. And the significant amount of blood on HM’s clothing, while TS only had some spots of blood on his jacket. And perhaps the fruit bowl from TS’ room was used as a replacement for the one that HM threw or swung at her mother’s face (though I don’t know if that would be provable).

They may be able to prove that HM wanted to get married in Bali, only her mother would not sign the documents allowing it. They may be able to prove that HM would inherit all of her mother’s estate if Sheila died. They may also question HM’s morals …. all of the documented previous violence against her mother … her pregnancy when she is not married (which is frowned upon in Indonesia) … her smoking cigarettes as a woman (also frowned upon in Indonesia).

All of this is possible SouthAussie. And if there was an identical, intact, fruit bowl in room 317 I think you may be bang on as to the reason why TS showed up with one from his room. Except for the supposed fingerprint evidence. Were there no fingerprints from HM on the broken bowl handle or pieces? I can understand how TS's could get on there if he helped pick up the pieces. And whose fingerprints were on the intact one, if in fact there was one?

MOO
 
  • #605
All of this is possible SouthAussie. And if there was an identical, intact, fruit bowl in room 317 I think you may be bang on as to the reason why TS showed up with one from his room. Except for the supposed fingerprint evidence. Were there no fingerprints from HM on the broken bowl handle or pieces? I can understand how TS's could get on there if he helped pick up the pieces. And whose fingerprints were on the intact one, if in fact there was one?

MOO

I’ve been thinking about the fingerprint evidence, Kamille. In fact, I’ve been thinking about all the evidence that we are aware of.

I am wondering if the reason that we have not heard about HM’s fingerprints on anything, or CCTV images anywhere, or her movements that night/morning, is because they have her locked in as a perp. :crossfingers: (Also, she could have had TS 'pick up all the broken glass from the room to put in his own room', while she 'wiped any fingerprints'.. of hers.)

Whereas we have heard more about TS’ fingerprints, clothing/blood evidence, movements, because they have been trying to flush him out and lock him in as a co-perpetrator. (Well, he has certainly locked himself in now!! :doh:)

We only heard about the blood on HM’s clothing from her lawyer, and police investigator Sadiarta only recently mentioned HM retrieving the luggage trolley .. not sure of his reasons for bothering to mention that .. other than it was perhaps confirming her involvement while revealing the least possible incriminating evidence to the lawyers/media.
 
  • #606
[SBM] I was also wondering if anyone has run across any prior criminal cases tried in Indonesia involving Americans?

Several weeks ago I was interested in finding out if there were currently any Americans under a death sentence in Indonesia. The only case I could find was that of Frank Amado, and a 2013 source says he is the first American to be sentenced to death in that country, so I’m guessing he’s still the only one as of today.

I’ve written a rather long summary of his case for my fellow Websleuths. I’ve included a lot of detail because the case might be interesting for those concerned with Sheila von Wiese-Mack’s murder because it concerns one American’s account of his arrest, pretrial detention, interactions with the police, his trial, and his prison experiences. It also highlights the fact that few people appear concerned that he could face a firing squad and that the U.S. State Department is doing nothing to fight his death sentence. There are important differences from the SvWM case, however, notably that Amado was convicted of drug trafficking and his crime didn't take place in Denpasar (or anywhere in Bali) but in Jakarta.

Frank Amado graduated from a Florida high school in 1982 and someone who knew him in the period after that described him as “always very entrepreneurial.” In 1985, when he was 21 years old, he was arrested for having a marijuana plant growing in a pot on his back porch. A month later he was arrested for having a pistol in his car. The weapon had had its serial number removed.

In 2004 he moved to the state of Washington and a few years later he moved to southeast Asia. He married, and opened an internet café in Bangkok. That business failed, he was divorced, and he moved to Jakarta.

On October 19th of 2009, Amado was arrested in Jakarta by the Indonesian drug enforcement agency and was found to have a pound of crystal meth on his person. Police found an additional 11 pounds of it in his Jakarta apartment. Apparently he confessed to storing the drugs for someone else and to transporting drugs to a distributor. He was 46 years old at the time of his arrest.

Amado was found guilty of drug trafficking and sentenced to death on August 4, 2010.

This article in the Tampa Bay Times (Amado went to high school in that area), describes his background, his case, and his current situation:

http://www.tampabay.com/features/hu...e-for-former-dunedin-man-on-death-row/1150991

It also says that the U.S. State Department won’t have anything to do with his case:

Aside from sending someone to visit him every three months to see if he is in reasonably good health and not being tortured, the U.S. State Department says it will have nothing to do with Amado's case.​

"The facts are out there. He has admitted to the facts. According to local statutes the crime is punishable by death, and, unfortunately, we see nothing irregular in the case," said Paul Belmont, press attache for the U.S. Embassy in Jakarta.​

The United States can't ask for preferential treatment for an American, said Belmont, who described Amado as "an American citizen with financial problems who was talked into doing this work for quick cash."​

If all his appeals fail, the article says that one day “a guard will come to his cell and tell him he has 72 hours left to live.” It goes to describe what it claims Indonesian witnesses to firing squads say will then happen:

Before daylight, he will be driven to a deserted stretch of beach wearing white pants and a white collarless shirt with a red cross over his heart. A black hood will be placed over his head.

As the sun comes up, his hands and feet will be tied to a wooden pole and about a dozen police officers will aim at his heart. Half of them will have blanks in their guns, the other half bullets.

His mother and sister will be notified to claim the body.​

There is a blog about his case, “Free Frank Amado,” which published a post in 2011 written by Amado himself, where he rages against the Indonesian system.

He mentions another American’s case:

I have a friend name Adeel, also an American inmate here, a very friendly, amiable, good-natured, 27 year-old guy, who was here on vacation and happened to be in a car with the son of a woman who was dealing drugs. There was no evidence whatsoever that he was involved in any wrong-doing, and the woman even testified that she didn’t even know him and had never seen him before in her life. After his family was extorted by their lawyer, the prosecution, and judges in his case to the tune of U.S. $20,000, he received a 15 year sentence! And this is for him having done nothing and there being no evidence to prove otherwise.​

Amado says that he was beaten by police and that the drugs brought into court during his trial were not the same drugs that he was caught with. (I have no idea if these allegations are true, but apparently the State Department doesn’t believe them or doesn’t care or has political reasons to remain silent.) See:

http://freefrankamado.wordpress.com...ances-surrounding-his-case-the-death-penalty/

The blog Death Penalty News has discussed the Amado case. They’ve published an interview with him where he describes being asked to pay bribes, says that his boss in the drug operation (not a Yank, but an Iranian) was sentenced to only 15 years because he paid LE $50,000, describes threats of violence by police against him, and recounts violence by investigators visited upon others in his circle, including his girlfriend, who he says was completely innocent of any involvement.

He describes prison life:

I feel like I'm a walking ATM machine here because, even though all my money has been taken from me and I'm subsisting on what little my 75 year-old mother can send, the public opinion appears to be, "Well, this guy is from America, so he must be rich,” because, even though most Westerners would think my existence here is horrible and substandard even for someone living in extreme poverty, it is still a far cry from how the low income Indonesian prisoners live, whose sometimes spoiled food is left by the entrances to the cell blocks on the ground in large trash bags which I, for the longest time, thought was trash.​

He concludes his description with this vivid line:

Incidentally, there are many skinny, malnourished cats and rats running around the Salemba campus and they take a wide girth around these trash bags of nutrition.​

He says the pretrial detention facility he was held in was a dungeon:

The title of "dungeon" might seem extreme, but how else would you refer to a place in which you are locked for 4 months without seeing daylight except for when you are occasionally being dragged to an interrogation, or what can be seen through tiny holes that barely allow for adequate ventilation, a place where you are constantly reminded you have absolutely no human rights, and even what is given to you in essentials for survival can be instantly stolen by corrupt and often sadistic guards and police, a place in which the food scraps you receive frequently cause abdominal cramps, a place where every week you are suffering from either skin sores and lesions, diarrhea, flu, eye infections, sore throats, and coughs?​

He believes the police took the drugs they confiscated from him and sold them for their own profit. He says there’s a high rate of suicide in his prison and that others have died under mysterious circumstances.

He says the Indonesian system is rife with corruption:

I think that justice is one thing, but to have someone who works in the most visibly corrupt nation and government in the world, where the system of corruption involves practically the entirety of its population, telling me that I'm being given the death penalty because I was involved in "corrupting the children of Indonesia,” is basically adding insult to injury. I mean, after my lawyer "negotiated" with the prosecutor, I was told that for a mere $50,000 "gift" I could have a sentence of 15 years! What kind of justice is that? This is also why it was no surprise when I recently found out about a well-off inmate here, whose name I can't disclose, who was apprehended with 2 kilos of ice, but was able to pay $300,000, so he received a whopping 1 year sentence!​

http://deathpenaltynews.blogspot.com/2011/01/frank-amado-actual-story.html

There’s a news story in the Jakarta Globe, published the day after his conviction, which describes the ring Amado was involved in as an “international drug syndicate.” It also says, “The court gave Amado, who was said to have changed his testimony throughout the trial, and his legal representative Sugiyono seven days to decide whether to appeal or directly seek clemency from the president.”

http://thejakartaglobe.beritasatu.c...ath-penalty-for-trafficking-narcotics/389533/

There’s a 56 minute documentary about him which apparently describes the terrible prison conditions he lives in and has him explaining that he’s learned his lesson. I haven’t seen it, but you can read about it here:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3432888/

His sister, Monique Amado, set up a GoFundM* page for him in August of 2012. She was looking to raise $25,000 but in the past 26 months has gathered only $615. I believe I am not supposed to link to such sites, so I’ll leave it to those with sufficient interest to find it on their own. It’s interesting that a drug trafficker can’t raise a thousand dollars in the space of over two years, but an Oak Park man accused of murder could raise over $10,000 in something like a month. Go figure!

There’s a ten-minute YouTube video discussing Amado’s case. It features a rather dotty British lady huddled under a broken brolly while hugging a hedge who awkwardly reads out an account of the case which she seems not to have even glanced at before the camera started rolling. It’s odd but strangely compelling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo5tgaTlwao

It had only 170 views as of a few hours ago. This, combined with the puny fundraising results of his sister, makes me wonder if people in the know simply don’t believe Amado’s boldest claims. (I believe some of what he says, disbelieve some of what he says, and think that many things which may have happened to him were specifically related to the fact that he was busted on drug charges and would not be relevant to Heather and Tommy's treatment.) On the other hand, I am opposed to the death penalty, so I have a certain sympathy for Amado, in spite of believing him to be guilty of the crimes he was charged with.

I feel pity for him, particularly because it seems he hasn’t learned what Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran of the Bali 9, also currently facing the death penalty, have learned: that your best chance for clemency in the Indonesian system is to accept the system for what it is, and provide the authorities with the best possible reasons for commuting a sentence, which includes showing respect and humility.

Amado harps on and on about the actual provenance of the drugs produced at his trial. Even if he is right about those drugs, it is still nothing but a technicality, and in no way undermines his guilt. The webpages supporting Amado all quote him as admitting he’s guilty of the drug charges, and it seems — rightly or wrongly — Indonesian justice doesn’t get het up over technicalities.

The post by Amado on the Free Frank Amado blog closes with this:

I don’t deserve a death sentence, but if the alternative is to spend the rest of my life languishing in some rat’s nest island prison with no chance of ever experiencing freedom again, a firing squad seems like a welcome alternative.​

I wonder if a pair of other Americans who may soon experience the hospitality of an Indonesian prison will feel the same?
 
  • #607
That's a very good read Tabby, thank you! Speaking of money, I'm wondering if Heather is getting any funds from any source. She can't reach any of Sheila's but if she had any source of her own money I imagine she would have arranged for Mr. Elkins to be able to retrieve it for her. He has been very quiet, has he not? If there are funds I doubt there would be too much, after all if there were why would she need to steal from Sheila regularly.
 
  • #608
Great read Orange Tabby. And it's no surprise why that American is on death row. Drugs in Indonesia are a big no no it seems. Trafficking large amounts is a really big no no, especially drugs other than marijuana. But I don't believe there's been a case of an American killing another American in Indonesia. I asked about this a while ago. I'm not sure we ever found any case of any foreigner killing another foreigner either. Although I would think there must be a case involving Australians considering they make up a large portion of the tourism in Bali?

MOO
 
  • #609
That's a very good read Tabby, thank you! Speaking of money, I'm wondering if Heather is getting any funds from any source. She can't reach any of Sheila's but if she had any source of her own money I imagine she would have arranged for Mr. Elkins to be able to retrieve it for her. He has been very quiet, has he not? If there are funds I doubt there would be too much, after all if there were why would she need to steal from Sheila regularly.

I'm sure someone is helping to supply HM with whatever she needs. And more than likely it is via her "legal team". Although while they are in the custody of the police and not in Kerobokan, it seems that all her needs are being taken care of. And if they're not, maybe she just stops eating and drinking until they are. ;)

MOO
 
  • #610
Great read Orange Tabby. And it's no surprise why that American is on death row. Drugs in Indonesia are a big no no it seems. Trafficking large amounts is a really big no no, especially drugs other than marijuana. But I don't believe there's been a case of an American killing another American in Indonesia. I asked about this a while ago. I'm not sure we ever found any case of any foreigner killing another foreigner either. Although I would think there must be a case involving Australians considering they make up a large portion of the tourism in Bali?

MOO

BBM: No ... no Aussie murdering an Aussie in Bali that I know of, or can find. But we do have far too many Aussies that die there - from accidents, poisonings, sometimes robberies by locals. An average of one Aussie dies there every nine days. :eek:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/travel/...stop-loving-bali/story-fnjjuxvu-1226796026844
 
  • #611
So will HM's fabrications that she's told since being in custody used against her as indicia of not being trustworthy?
 
  • #612
I’ve been looking at this case of an English woman who was murder in May in Bali by a local. The local is currently on trial, the prosecutor is asking for an 18 year sentence. They are calling it murder, not premeditated murder. It sounds as though the local broke into her room and strangled Anne-Marie, then left town and went to Jakarta.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...2/British-teacher-found-murdered-in-Bali.html
http://baliskytour.wordpress.com/2014/10/02/two-decades-for-depraved-decadence/
 
  • #613
One version of the crime: Digital re-enactment uploaded by NMANewsDirect (MSM)


[video=youtube;XTX4yyrRKVQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTX4yyrRKVQ[/video]
 
  • #614
One version of the crime: Digital re-enactment uploaded by NMANewsDirect (MSM)

Hope you share my opinion, FigTree, that the video is lacking. Thanks for sharing it though.

I just have to say, IMO, that's quite a simple, sterile re-enactment. It makes the horrible crime just some accidental blows from TS. Then, HM on standby to help. No duct tape, no mopping up blood, hiding bloody towels and clothing or getting the luggage trolley, and all the really devious parts of this crime. A simple re-enactment that lacks...THE TRUTH.

Sorry, but it's like a cartoon, when in my mind it is a bloody nightmare where a fine, older woman with no way to defend herself was snuffed out by two punk kids that ended up stuffing her in a suitcase.
 
  • #615
So no news?? Was there another extension? TIA
 
  • #616
No new news that I've found - must assume there was an additional/the final extension and which ends:

11/13/14 If LE maxes out TS & HM's detention time; three full months + one day post crime; transfer to prison authorities
 
  • #617
I don’t imagine that the killer kids are enjoying the weather in Bali right now, in their uncomfortable jail cells. Nothing much to do except sit and sweat, and apply mosquito repellent.

October is one of the hottest months … temperature was up to 31C/88F today, with about 75% humidity .. it is the start of the wet season too. Blue skies, then a heavy downpour every few days.

http://www.holiday-weather.com/bali/averages/october/
 
  • #618
  • #619
I don’t imagine that the killer kids are enjoying the weather in Bali right now, in their uncomfortable jail cells. Nothing much to do except sit and sweat, and apply mosquito repellent.

October is one of the hottest months … temperature was up to 31C/88F today, with about 75% humidity .. it is the start of the wet season too. Blue skies, then a heavy downpour every few days.

http://www.holiday-weather.com/bali/averages/october/

Bet that humidity makes HM's hair hard to manage, and her glasses keep slipping down her nose. That's sweat, not a pregnancy glow. Pimples, and that horn growing out of her forehead is bigger. Oh well. :smile:
Snarky me, huh.

Taken with a huge grain of salt, there's interesting activity in the comments section of this story by someone who says they know the Macks and of someone else who says they're a family member of SvWM and HM:
http://www.people.com/article/bali-suitcase-murder-victim-killed-with-fruit-bowl

Thanks. Yes, those comments are interesting.
I'm taking them with a grain of hard, undercooked rice instead of salt. :facepalm:
 
  • #620
I wonder if HM went on her little hunger strike in the hopes that they would send her back to the US for the 'sake of the baby'. And they probably just put her in the police hospital and put her on an IV instead, till she was hydrated and nourished enough to go back to jail. I doubt that they have any rules about non-restraint of hospital patients in Indonesia. Still trying to manipulate, no doubt, with no thought for the health of her child.
 
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