GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #4

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  • #981
[SBM]

You forget the most obvious explanation: Heather is pregnant. She houses an innocent within her body.

I know that I am at odds with many people here who don’t like the treatment Heather has received. I think it is in part an unavoidable by-product of her pregnancy. For that reason, I’m not troubled by her getting some special treatment. The unborn child doesn’t deserve to suffer deprivations simply because Heather is a monster. A monster who is not yet convicted.

But I also think that when the child is born, she doesn’t deserve being put in the care of Heather Mack. That would be disgusting.

My point about the bribes is this: there is no evidence -- yet -- that Heather has secured any benefit in her trial, which is the only thing which concerns me. No evidence seems to have been made to disappear. In fact, more evidence came to light the day the trial started. That doesn’t bode well for her. The judges didn't boot out the text messages, they didn't reject the indictment, and we know from Heather herself that there are 41 witnesses against her, which seems no small number to me. And the FBI is lurking. And if I understand things correctly, when the evidence phase is over, the press will be back in packs reporting any ridiculous judgement.

Let Heather get pizza delivery for a few more weeks. I don't care about that (much). I'm not watching for signs that her money buys her fries or nail polish. I'm watching for signs that her money will obstruct justice. I don't see that yet.

But I keep watching.

Heather lied and tried to manipulate them with that pregnancy right off the bat. Saying she needed to return to the U.S. for medical treatment for a condition she did not have. Who would think of that? Then she lied about a whole lot of other things including their treatment of her. Can't see why the pregnancy would get her special treatment after that. But even from that first week when she was being filmed laughing and smoking, TS was being dragged around by his cuffs in his orange prisoner shorts suit.

And just the fact that the prosecutor is willing to take her version of hiding in the bathroom and present it as evidence of what actually happened indicates to me that a bribe may already be working for her at least. What's next? Throwing out electronic communication as unreliable and possibly manipulated as the defense suggests? Will that require more money? Who would have to be paid to make that evidence disappear? What's left after that to tie HM to the murder? No witness other than TS can tie her to the actual murder.

I know we've seen no evidence of a bribe at work yet but I think we've seen enough to indicate that it's likely given the last minute attorney replacements. Enough to stop the flow of cash being sent over to Ary Soenardi anyway. I hope.

MOO
 
  • #982
2ic2vic.jpg


Heather Mack (R) and Tommy Schaefer (L) of the US walk from a prisoner vehicle towards Kerobokan prison in Denpasar on Indonesia's resort island of Bali on February 25, 2015.

http://www.gettyimages.com.au/detai...er-of-the-us-walk-from-a-news-photo/464353364


This pic is of them returning to the prison today.
Tommy is carrying a Pregnancy Babies and Children's Expo bag, which is an exhibition held in major cities in Australia. You can also buy stuff online from their website.
I think they have probably just returned from court, as they are in their court clothes. (Yes, they have just returned from court, as descriptions from other pics say so.)

http://www.pbcexpo.com.au/
 
  • #983
30w37gl.jpg


117ryok.jpg


Heather Mack (L) and Tommy Schaefer (R) of the US arrive at Kerobokan prison after attending a court hearing in Denpasar on Indonesia's resort island of Bali on February 25, 2015.


3476tmx.jpg


Heather Mack (2nd R) and Tommy Schaefer (L) of the US walk from a prisoner vehicle towards Kerobokan prison in Denpasar on Indonesia's resort island of Bali on February 25, 2015.

http://www.gettyimages.com.au/asset-detail/gallery/personality?personality=Heather Mack&page=2
(Full size pics can be seen at link. I made them much smaller this time)
 
  • #984
[SBM & BBM]
For example, I’ve just been searching the Sydney Morning Herald. They had several stories about Lindsay Sandiford, starting in May of 2012. They ran a story on the indictment against her read in court on Oct. 5 of that year. Then everything went quiet. Their next story about Sandiford was on Jan. 22, 2013, when they ran a story announcing her death sentence.

Similarly, there are several hits for Lindsay Sandiford when you search the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Company) site, but not one hit about her trial except for when she received the death sentence.

RSBM:

I wonder what kind of press Lindsay got in the UK. Have you noticed if they had more detailed court reporting about her, as she is from England and not an Aussie or a resident of Australia?

I still wonder if reporters are even allowed inside the court during (these/some/any?) proceedings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsay_Sandiford_case
 
  • #985
Haposan Sihombing was Tommy's first lawyer.
Raja Nasution was Heather's first lawyer.

Hi all, new to WS. I went back to an older article in regards to Elkin & Favia and found a name I am
not sure was covered in regards to Stella's custody. Lily Lubis, in googling her name, it did not look good.
But might explain the $ Favia is looking for. (They are Lawyers specializing in Adoption)

Snip:
"Neither lawyer would make any comment during the clinic visit, but Elkin released a statement saying they were in Bali to assist Nasution and fellow Indonesian lawyer Lily Lubis, 'in any manner that they feel is appropriate and necessary.'

According to Favia's page on the legal website AVVO, she is based in the Chicago suburb of Oakbrook Terrace. Nasution said she has worked 'on behalf of abused and neglected children in the juvenile court system' and she will handle the case 'in the most appropriate and necessary manner.' However, it is understood the two U.S lawyers will have no standing in any local court and their presence is to aid Nasution and his team."


Source:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...orious-prison-mother-faces-death-penalty.html
 
  • #986
30w37gl.jpg


117ryok.jpg


Heather Mack (L) and Tommy Schaefer (R) of the US arrive at Kerobokan prison after attending a court hearing in Denpasar on Indonesia's resort island of Bali on February 25, 2015.


3476tmx.jpg


Heather Mack (2nd R) and Tommy Schaefer (L) of the US walk from a prisoner vehicle towards Kerobokan prison in Denpasar on Indonesia's resort island of Bali on February 25, 2015.

http://www.gettyimages.com.au/asset-detail/gallery/personality?personality=Heather Mack&page=2
(Full size pics can be seen at link. I made them much smaller this time)

HM: Look honey. Look at all the stuff my friends brought for me and Stella while I was in the holding cell waiting for court.

TS: Uh huh. Anything for me?

HM: Yeah, here's some rice.

:giggle:
 
  • #987
RSBM:

I wonder what kind of press Lindsay got in the UK. Have you noticed if they had more detailed court reporting about her, as she is from England and not an Aussie or a resident of Australia?

I still wonder if reporters are even allowed inside the court during (these/some/any?) proceedings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsay_Sandiford_case

I was going to examine the four major British broadsheets and their stories on Lindsay Sandiford: the Guardian, the Independent, the Telegraph, and the Times. But I got exhausted after doing just the Guardian, which listed over 200 Sandiford hits. Here's what I found in examining their coverage:

There are lots of stories beginning in May of 2012 when Sandiford was arrested. There are several stories tightly clustered around Oct. 5, 2012, the first day of her trial. Then there is nothing trial related (and almost nothing whatever) until late December of 2012, by which time the evidentiary part of the trial was over and the legal discussions reported concerned sentence. Then there were lots and lots of stories about her death sentence, handed down on Jan. 22, 2013.

I found no stories covering the heart of the trial itself, no reporters writing about hearing the witnesses or seeing the evidence at her trial.

Like you, I have to wonder about whether reporters are even allowed in. What I find strange about that possibility is that you would think there would be "footprints" of such a policy on the internet. But I know you posted that you searched for sub judice rules in Indonesia and found nothing. I did searches using terms like "press freedom," "trial reporters," on and on, and couldn't find anything. If reporters are banned from covering parts of a trial, why is there no protest about this from free speech and human rights groups and others posted on websites? Also, you'd think that there would be at least a few academics who would write about such things.

It is truly puzzling to me.

In spite of no explanation for it, at this point I can find no evidence whatever to suggest that the lack of trial coverage in Sheila's murder is anything out of the the ordinary.
 
  • #988
  • #989
Hi all, new to WS. I went back to an older article in regards to Elkin & Favia and found a name I am
not sure was covered in regards to Stella's custody. Lily Lubis, in googling her name, it did not look good.
But might explain the $ Favia is looking for.

Snip:
"Neither lawyer would make any comment during the clinic visit, but Elkin released a statement saying they were in Bali to assist Nasution and fellow Indonesian lawyer Lily Lubis, 'in any manner that they feel is appropriate and necessary.'

According to Favia's page on the legal website AVVO, she is based in the Chicago suburb of Oakbrook Terrace. Nasution said she has worked 'on behalf of abused and neglected children in the juvenile court system' and she will handle the case 'in the most appropriate and necessary manner.' However, it is understood the two U.S lawyers will have no standing in any local court and their presence is to aid Nasution and his team."


Source:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...orious-prison-mother-faces-death-penalty.html

Welcome to websleuths! Thanks for posting that. I don't believe i ever caught the Lily Lubis name before.
 
  • #990
  • #991
Hi all, new to WS. I went back to an older article in regards to Elkin & Favia and found a name I am
not sure was covered in regards to Stella's custody. Lily Lubis, in googling her name, it did not look good.
But might explain the $ Favia is looking for.

Snip:
"Neither lawyer would make any comment during the clinic visit, but Elkin released a statement saying they were in Bali to assist Nasution and fellow Indonesian lawyer Lily Lubis, 'in any manner that they feel is appropriate and necessary.'

According to Favia's page on the legal website AVVO, she is based in the Chicago suburb of Oakbrook Terrace. Nasution said she has worked 'on behalf of abused and neglected children in the juvenile court system' and she will handle the case 'in the most appropriate and necessary manner.' However, it is understood the two U.S lawyers will have no standing in any local court and their presence is to aid Nasution and his team."


Source:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...orious-prison-mother-faces-death-penalty.html

Welcome Bugbear :welcome:

Good find on that old article about the other lawyers who have been throwing their hat into the ring to try to squeeze money from the victim's estate.

I've looked up that Lily Lubis lawyer online before and there ARE some interesting things online. But then there are some interesting things online for all of them. Not sure what Favia had in mind as far as the baby's "rights" while in Indonesia. Also not sure what arrangements she was trying to make with local attorneys since she is not licensed to practice there.

Which is the real crux of the situation. Favia doesn't get $126,000 to represent a baby who apparently is not leaving Indonesia after birth. Because she can't represent the baby. If HM wants to hire someone to represent the baby, then a Bali attorney can submit their "itemized statement" and see how that goes. HM does not need a US attorney for any other reason than to try to get funds from her trust for her Indonesian attorneys. And for that she only needs one US one.

MOO
 
  • #992
He is looking very thin in that photo, isn't he? I don't think he is getting as much pizza as Heather is. Either that, or he is doing other stuff. Scott Rush got very thin inside Kerobokan too - for reasons not related to food.

Was wondering that myself. I know it's pretty hot and humid over there, and HM does show signs of sweating from the humidity, but on him it is always profuse.

I also wonder if there are any more leopard print push up bras for the expectant mother to be to wear to court under her see through blouse in the new goodie bag from her friends. ;)

MOO
 
  • #993
30w37gl.jpg


117ryok.jpg


Heather Mack (L) and Tommy Schaefer (R) of the US arrive at Kerobokan prison after attending a court hearing in Denpasar on Indonesia's resort island of Bali on February 25, 2015.


3476tmx.jpg


Heather Mack (2nd R) and Tommy Schaefer (L) of the US walk from a prisoner vehicle towards Kerobokan prison in Denpasar on Indonesia's resort island of Bali on February 25, 2015.

http://www.gettyimages.com.au/asset-detail/gallery/personality?personality=Heather Mack&page=2
(Full size pics can be seen at link. I made them much smaller this time)

Oh lookie a lovely couple preparing for the arrival of their baby, errrr NO! two vile nasty murders who killed the baby's grandma.

If HM is paying any bribes the only thing that will help her is acquittal so she can walk with the money and the baby. Otherwise any conviction involving the murder, no money, no custody of the baby. Jmo

ciao
 
  • #994
Oh lookie a lovely couple preparing for the arrival of their baby, errrr NO! two vile nasty murders who killed the baby's grandma.

If HM is paying any bribes the only thing that will help her is acquittal so she can walk with the money and the baby. Otherwise any conviction involving the murder, no money, no custody of the baby. Jmo

ciao
Wow. Prison swag. This really is getting ridiculous.
 
  • #995
[SBM & BBM]

But is that true?

For example, I’ve just been searching the Sydney Morning Herald. They had several stories about Lindsay Sandiford, starting in May of 2012. They ran a story on the indictment against her read in court on Oct. 5 of that year. Then everything went quiet. Their next story about Sandiford was on Jan. 22, 2013, when they ran a story announcing her death sentence.

Similarly, there are several hits for Lindsay Sandiford when you search the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Company) site, but not one hit about her trial except for when she received the death sentence.

I searched the ABC site for Myuran Sukumaran, limiting my search to stories between Oct. 11, 2005 (the first day of his trial) and Feb. 14, 2006 (when he was sentenced to death). I found no stories discussing the evidence at his trial. There were very few stories that appeared at all in this interval and they were concerned mostly with what lawyers were arguing about sentence and one story saying his lawyer argued he should be released because there was no evidence against him. But ABC does not have stories about the witnesses and evidence against him, nothing aboaut the very heart of his trial. ABC went quiet during this period.

There are a huge number of stories at the Sydney Morning Herald about Schapelle Corby. But there is one noteworthy thing: there are no stories which describe any day in court in which evidence was presented.

There are lots of articles which appeared during her trial, but they did not report the trial itself. They were concerned with out-of-court statements about the possible involvement of baggage handlers, musings on what a conviction might do to Bali tourism, discussions of whether Schapelle might serve part of her sentence in Australia, reports that she physically collapsed one day in the courtroom, and the like. But when it came to the witnesses and evidence at the trial, the SMH went quiet.

There was coverage after the evidentiary part of the trial was over. On Apr. 29, 2005, there were reports on her plea to the judges (including three words in Indonesian: "Saya tidak bersalah", I am not guilty.) There is also some reporting of arguments made by her lawyers. There are reports that the prosecutors said on May 7, “send her to jail” and that there was a decision on May 13 that the allegations about Sydney baggage handlers' involvement in the drug trade comes too late.

But I cannot find an article discussing a day at the trial where witnesses were heard or evidence was presented.

The Lindsay Sandiford, Myuran Sukumaran and Schapelle Corby trials all went quiet when the evidence and witnesses were presented. None of them received lenient sentences.

I’ve only spent a couple of hours with this research, so I hardly consider it definitive. But is there any Indonesian trial where there’s coverage of the heart of the case? Coverage of the prosecution’s presentation of the evidence? Newspaper stories discussing the questioning of witnesses? The only one I’ve found so far is the Neil Bantleman trial (Canadian accused of sexually assaulting children at the school where he worked in Jakarta) and the truly strange thing there is that from the few CBC reports I’ve read it seems that the CBC is getting their courtroom info not from their own journalists but from Bantleman’s wife and brother!

For reasons I simply do not understand, it seems that the evidentiary part of Indonesian trials do not get reported. It happens not just when rich defendants buy their way out of justice, it also happens when defendants like Lindsay Sandiford and Myuran Sukumaran are subjected to the death penalty.

When things go quiet in Indonesia, it does not mean a lenient sentence is on the way. It seems that things always go quiet.

Schapelle Corby had a lot of coverage throughout the trial on TV here from what I remember. I am not sure about Lindsay Sandiford and did not follow the Bali 9 trials at the time when they were occurring to be honest.
 
  • #996
Hi all, new to WS. I went back to an older article in regards to Elkin & Favia and found a name I am
not sure was covered in regards to Stella's custody. Lily Lubis, in googling her name, it did not look good.
But might explain the $ Favia is looking for. (They are Lawyers specializing in Adoption)

Snip:
"Neither lawyer would make any comment during the clinic visit, but Elkin released a statement saying they were in Bali to assist Nasution and fellow Indonesian lawyer Lily Lubis, 'in any manner that they feel is appropriate and necessary.'

According to Favia's page on the legal website AVVO, she is based in the Chicago suburb of Oakbrook Terrace. Nasution said she has worked 'on behalf of abused and neglected children in the juvenile court system' and she will handle the case 'in the most appropriate and necessary manner.' However, it is understood the two U.S lawyers will have no standing in any local court and their presence is to aid Nasution and his team."


Source:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...orious-prison-mother-faces-death-penalty.html

Welcome Bugbear! That is an interesting point indeed.
 
  • #997
Schapelle Corby had a lot of coverage throughout the trial on TV here from what I remember. I am not sure about Lindsay Sandiford and did not follow the Bali 9 trials at the time when they were occurring to be honest.

Re: coverage of Schapelle: I don't deny that there were lots of media reports. I mention numerous examples of the coverage in my post. My point is this: can you point to any press report which specifically covers any of the days in court that includes contemporaneous accounts of the witnesses testimony or the specific evidence against her? I haven't found them.

I should add that I found that absence utterly astounding.
 
  • #998
We did have a lot of reporting on Schapelle's case. We definitely had reporters in Bali for the trial. Though it is not clear that they got their info directly from attending the trial (which is one of the reasons why I am not sure if reporters are allowed into the courtroom). But they were able to report what was happening within a day or so of it having happened, sometimes on the same day.

Eg. This article from 5th March 2005 includes proceedings from 2 days prior, on 3rd March.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/03/04/1109700677359.html

But it is nothing like the reporting that we are accustomed to about the day-to-day proceedings in trials on our home soil. And gives more of an overview, than specific ongoing detail.

This report gives a lot of reference links to trial info mentioned in the report. It is not clear where a lot of the referenced info originally came from though.
http://www.schapelle.net/appendix1.html


One interesting thing that cropped up during Schapelle's trial - during the sentencing phase, one of the judges was seen reading a book called "Life Imprisonment" during the proceedings. :thud:
 
  • #999
More on the Lack of Reporting of Indonesian Trials

Based on my very limited examination of a handful of Indonesian trials, I conclude that they are divided into what I would consider four parts:

I. Preliminaries
Prosecution reading of the indictment. Defense response. Prosecution reply to defense. Judges' ruling on the defense arguments.

II. Witnesses and Evidence
The heart of the trial

III. Argument
Defense arguments on the sufficiency and meaning of evidence. Prosecution arguments on the appropriate sentence. Etc.

IV. Conclusion
Ruling by the judges on guilt. Sentence (if they find the defendant guilty).

Based on the trials I examined and discussed in previous posts, it seems to me that Parts I and III and IV get press coverage, and Part II does not.

I did not find press coverage of Part II for any of my test cases (Lindsay Sandiford, Myuran Sukamuran, and Schapelle Corby).

Part III is when the lawyers for both sides argue the merits of the evidence and submit what they think is the appropriate sentence. This is when press coverage seems to resume.

For example, when it came to the legal arguments of the significance of the evidence in Schapelle’s case, her lawyers argued (among other things) that there were four customs agents who were present when the pot was discovered. Only one spoke English, and his account was said to have polluted the other three, because they all (apparently) testified to the same response by Schapelle about the ownership and packing of the bag, but only the one agent who spoke English could understand her. Who were these men? Had there been contemporaneous accounts of the trial we would know their names and what they testified to, as this case was a very big deal in Australia. But we don’t know who they are (as far as I can tell, and I could be wrong), because there weren’t any journalists submitting reports on those days of the trial naming the witnesses and recounting their testimony. (This is my tentative conclusion, as I hardly consider myself anything like an expert in the Schapelle Corby trial.)

This is what I mean when I say that the press coverage of the trial of Heather and Tommy seems to be consistent with previous trials in Indonesia. It is Part II, the evidence and the witnesses, which doesn’t seem to be reported. I still do not know why.

If anyone can provide examples of contemporaneous press accounts of either the court testimony of witnesses or the presentation of evidence against defendants in an Indonesian trial, that would be important in disproving this tentative theory. (I have already pointed out that the Neil Bantleman case differs from my test cases, but this trial has the very peculiar circumstance that the defendant’s relatives are putting out press releases about the trial. These documents, rather than any journalist’s accounts, seem to be the sole basis of the factual elements in reports published in Canada about what has transpired in the Jakarta court.)

I only tentatively subscribe to the theory that the evidentiary part of an Indonesian trial goes regularly unreported in the press because I can’t find evidence against this theory. I have certainly not done enough research to be at all certain of it. Eight months ago I could have told you absolutely nothing about Indonesian court cases. Today I can tell you only a little.
 
  • #1,000
Sound observations, Orange Tabby. Perhaps the part of the trial involving witnesses and witness statements is protected, and more news will emerge once the lawyers get to it with their arguments. We did see a little of the evidence phase, in the form of pics of the suitcases in the court room. And we heard about the witnesses that would be called, but that is where it ended.

"..... the case, which has been adjourned until next week.
It is then that the first of the prosecution witnesses will be called.
Among the witness will be staff from the St Regis Hotel - where the murder occurred - police and forensic experts."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Bali-hospital-collapsing-bleeding-prison.html
 
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