GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #5

[FigTree]

Welcome BorderSam

:wagon:

Nice First Post!

 

[FigTree]

First time posting after many years of lurking! I found this site when Heather Mack was first arrested for the murder of her mother; what a tragic and crazy story.

I have found you all such an interesting and thought-provoking bunch and am really happy to see Orange Tabby back

Linas; the Wiese family hasn't shown any interest in caring for Stella. I don't see that happening; not one bit of inclination has been demonstrated that they'd want to take Stella and who could blame them? The looming sceptre of HM being forever part of their lives then.

I too think it'd be best for Stella to be adopted by a family with no ties to HM or TS but we know that's not going to happen. KW IMO would be the lesser of two bad choices given that the other is for Stella to be raised in Bali visiting her monstrous mother regularly.

Without Stella in the picture; i.e. if she goes State-side it doesn't look as if HM would get ANY funds; we know she'd be skimming from Stella's allotment if she is cared for in Bali. Hmmmmm, I'd love to be a fly on the wall of Kerobokan if Tommy ends up having cash for phones, cigarettes and food from Kia and Heather plummets to regular prisoner status without even supplementary food.

My bold
Just some thoughts...
I wonder also about the scenario that would see Stella (adopted) staying in Bali so she has access to her mother and father (not for the benefit of anyone else but Stella).
This might mean that anyone from the US or any other country must be able to live in Bali to care for Stella - and that may not be possible - unless someone like KW moved to Bali, which is also precarious as the Indonesian immigration laws may not allow it.
Its though, not beyond the possibility, that any situation could be secured by some form of compensation.

If Stella is adopted out - regardless of who she is placed with; family, carers, others, or in which country she lives in...
HM will be out of jail in less than 10 years.
Somehow I think if HM has the chance on release to get back into Stella's life with some sort of permanency - she would.
I also think who ever took Stella (whether they were previously known to HM or not) would be pressured by HM's delusions to get to that money in some form (targeted is probably a better word) after her release in Indonesia - even if she faces legal challenges in the US on her return. HM is that sly, and just because she is Stella's biological mother she would use that as leverage - even against her daughter .
If anyone thinks that HM would not try to get money from her daughters inheritance - they're crazy - because HM is crazy, and this is right down her manipulation street.
How possible is it that HM then rips off her daughter. Very.
Leopards don't change their spots.

This would make adoption (possibly) in Indonesia or another country besides the US, an option.
If Stella was given some form of other national citizenship, such as Indonesian, Stella could stay in Indonesia (or another country) and HM would be deported back to the US after her release.
It may be a way to give this child a chance towards a stable and secure foundation.
She'll need it.
(IMO)

 

[BorderSam]

What an interesting possibility you raise, Fig Tree! Yes, if Stella could be adopted in Indonesia and her monstrous mother deported it'd be a better chance at a good life for the child. I likewise believe that Heather will always try and will at some point succeed in being a part of Stella's life and, yes, absolutely for the money and, yes, she would have no qualms about ripping her daughter off. Geez, I do not think I am being dramatic saying that if she gets contact with Stella once of age and Stella didn't cooperate with handing over her money (in Heather's mind all of the estate was always only HER money), Stella's life could be in jeopardy. Look what happened to the last person who stood in the way of Heather and her father's estate of which was mostly left to Sheila and not even Heather.

The best-case scenario would see Stella adopted in the U.S., Heather convicted of conspiracy and sent to jail in the U.S. and not released until Stella is in her, minimum, 30s and old enough to not be susceptible to manipulation. I have no idea if sentences could be that long.

We know that if Heather goes to trial in the U.S. that she'll have zero sympathy in the public court. I think she believed with her unsubstantiated charges of sexual assault in the prison, being dealt with in a racist manner by being served fried chicken and her tall tale of an ectopic pregnancy that Americans would rise up in outrage and demand she be sent back to Chicago or that Indonesian authorities would scurry to placate and American. I think she really is that deluded OR thought herself clever enough to concoct and have believed crazy lies that would enable her to escape consequences. Sadly, I believe that Sheila (from the best of intentions) allowed that mindset to flourish; Heather found she could escape with flimsy lies and play the Poor Me, I'm so sad and damaged about my father leaving me card right up until Bali.

 

[Kamille]

Welcome BorderSam :welcome:

I also agree that SVM's family does not have any interest in taking in Stella, for the same reasons you've stated. They would not want to involve themselves in this any more than they already are. HM will always be in Stella's life no matter where she goes.

FigTree: HM will never allow for Stella to be adopted. She wants Stella to stay in Bali with a local family as guardians and to continue to get the benefit of the "care packages" that are sent to her on Stella's behalf. The local family would receive the compensation or "care packages" and they, in turn, would bring Stella to visit HM in the prison while they are dropping off her "supplies". And once the 8 years is up, she will reunite with Stella and who knows what will happen to them both at that point.

Looks like only the possibility of KW being awarded guardianship at this point is going to change that.

MOO

 

[Weezer Fan]

First time posting after many years of lurking! I found this site when Heather Mack was first arrested for the murder of her mother; what a tragic and crazy story.

I have found you all such an interesting and thought-provoking bunch and am really happy to see Orange Tabby back

Linas; the Wiese family hasn't shown any interest in caring for Stella. I don't see that happening; not one bit of inclination has been demonstrated that they'd want to take Stella and who could blame them? The looming sceptre of HM being forever part of their lives then.

I too think it'd be best for Stella to be adopted by a family with no ties to HM or TS but we know that's not going to happen. KW IMO would be the lesser of two bad choices given that the other is for Stella to be raised in Bali visiting her monstrous mother regularly.

Without Stella in the picture; i.e. if she goes State-side it doesn't look as if HM would get ANY funds; we know she'd be skimming from Stella's allotment if she is cared for in Bali. Hmmmmm, I'd love to be a fly on the wall of Kerobokan if Tommy ends up having cash for phones, cigarettes and food from Kia and Heather plummets to regular prisoner status without even supplementary food.

Glad to have your input, Border Sam! I agree whole heartedly with everything you said. I don't have 100% confidence in Kia either. Truth is, I have about 50% confidence. But, my confidence in Stella having a decent life in Bali is ZERO PERCENT. That is why I am rooting for Kia.

Ditto on the Wiese family. I don't blame them. They seem genuinely concerned for Stella, but she is the offspring of the two that murdered their sister. It is too much to ask of them. And, they will never get HM and TS out of their lives if they take Stella in. IMO, Stella should have been brought back to the US when she was born, and, a foster/adoptive family found for her.

 

[ajaylee]

First, Stella's trust should be left in Wiese's hands. I think he is the only one who can be trusted not to be manipulated by HM. This whole mess might have worked out better if Judge Cohen hadn't fallen for HM and given her the money for her first trial, the money that got her off with a much lighter sentence than she deserved.

I am no expert, but in the US, it can be extraordinarily difficult to terminate a birth parent's rights. There's a shocking case going through court right now where a convicted rapist is demanding (and has been awarded!) visitation rights to the daughter who resulted from the rape. Another convicted felon has been released from prison and is demanding custody of his child, a child whose mother gave it up for adoption at birth.

If KW (or a family in Bali) gets custody, it likely will be a guardianship, not an adoption. That will mean that when HM is free, she can come back to the US and demand custody for her child. If that happens, she will claim youth, heat of passion, etc. and that she is reformed and has done her time. A sympathetic judge would likely at least allow her visitation.

Worse, if KW has custody, it pretty much guarantees that HM will be in Stella's life, because KW will make sure to keep TS involved in Stella's life as much as possible from afar while she's growing up: daily facetime and snapchats, I'm sure. There's no way that will happen without her trying to cast HM as the villain and TS as a poor, misguided fool. Then we'll have KW, TS and HM all trying to pull at Stella to get at her $$.

Wiese is the only one close enough to the situation to be likely to keep a very tight rein on money. KW is already talking 'good education' (ie, expensive private schools - meaning she'll have to live in a nice place for Stella, of course). Therapy? Hint to KW: an ethical therapist isn't going to 'teach' Stella to love her grandma and killer daddy and conspirator uncle but hate her mommy. It isn't going to work that way.

Unfortunately, for a lot of reasons, the courts tend to try to 'keep families together', even when it clearly isn't in the child's best interests.

 

[Kamille]

Unfortunately, for a lot of reasons, the courts tend to try to 'keep families together', even when it clearly isn't in the child's best interests.

I know right? Why isn't society more protective of children? When did the legal community start manipulating the laws to allow for felons to have access (and lets face it...ownership) to vulnerable children just because they're related? I swear we have tougher laws for animals. The ASPCA seems to have no problem yanking pets from the custody of people who clearly are not responsible pet owners but children are still being left in situations that are not safe or in their best interests. And the cases on this board just keeping proving that every day.

SMH :notgood:

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Regardless of who was responsible for uploading those confession videos, fact is that she made them...for some reason. And we'll likely never know what the true reason was.

But I sure hope they pissed off the officials in Kerobokan so that if they even considered letting HM out on early parole because of Stella, that they are angry enough to want her to do the whole 9 years and 11 months at this point.

MOO

 

[Weezer Fan]

I really wish HM had also gotten 18 years so Stella would no longer be a minor when she gets out. But, the money will probably be gone by the time HM gets out. I posted an old story in Dec 2015, (I believe), that $400K in attorneys fees had been spent. The trust was only $1.5M to start with. I bet the attorney's fees are approaching $1M. Its been since Aug 2014 that Sheila was murdered.

 

[Weezer Fan]

Heather Mack has acknowledged she is under threat of prosecution in the United States, citing an “ongoing federal criminal proceeding” in a fresh round of court filings this week.

The 21-year-old Chicagoan, imprisoned in Indonesia, made the claim as she asserted her Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination in a legal battle scheduled to return to a Cook County courtroom Friday. She said she would continue to do so “until she is no longer under the threat of criminal prosecution in America or Indonesia.”

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/fearing-u-s-prosecution-heather-mack-takes-the-fifth/

 

[FigTree]

RSBM ...

The best-case scenario would see Stella adopted in the U.S., Heather convicted of conspiracy and sent to jail in the U.S. and not released until Stella is in her, minimum, 30s and old enough to not be susceptible to manipulation. I have no idea if sentences could be that long.

The US is possibly the best place for her to get a new life, though she will go there with with a great deal of baggage - meaning she will be known as the child of murderers. This will follow her through her life there. Is there enough protection to shield her from that. She will also be in a town where both HM & TS have enough contacts to keep them updated. If Stella was given to KW then I would hope that there would be some sort of safeguards put in place.

FigTree: HM will never allow for Stella to be adopted. She wants Stella to stay in Bali with a local family as guardians and to continue to get the benefit of the "care packages" that are sent to her on Stella's behalf. The local family would receive the compensation or "care packages" and they, in turn, would bring Stella to visit HM in the prison while they are dropping off her "supplies". And once the 8 years is up, she will reunite with Stella and who knows what will happen to them both at that point.

Regardless of who was responsible for uploading those confession videos, fact is that she made them...for some reason. And we'll likely never know what the true reason was.
But I sure hope they pissed off the officials in Kerobokan so that if they even considered letting HM out on early parole because of Stella, that they are angry enough to want her to do the whole 9 years and 11 months at this point.

I have a feeling that the reason for the videos release was to make sure that (at this crucial time of the decision as to where Stella ends up) the Indonesian & US officials and knows that HM is not deserving of any of her demands to keep Stella - and that she has lied and manipulated the systems and really made them all look like fools. That makes me think that possibly HM's demands to keep Stella in Indonesia were/are very real and looked like they were/are going to happen. The release of the tapes and KW's sudden appearance and want to take Stella back to the US is a little too coincidental to me. Those tapes are a revelation and insight into the crazy world this child is currently living in. And if others knew about those tapes and that confession (which they obviously did) then why weren't the tapes given to someone in the Indonesia and the US with official capacity instead of being posted on the net. If TS or for that matter KW knew of these confessions prior then this is a conspiracy to get Stella . I'm not seeing the same outrage from KW to the confessions which may help her son's cause like I did the outrage from SVWM's side of the family. Id like to know did KW know of the existence of these confessions. It has been hinted along these lines since the two were convicted.

IMO, Stella should have been brought back to the US when she was born, and, a foster/adoptive family found for her.

Totally agreed.

Wiese is the only one close enough to the situation to be likely to keep a very tight rein on money. KW is already talking 'good education' (ie, expensive private schools - meaning she'll have to live in a nice place for Stella, of course). Therapy? Hint to KW: an ethical therapist isn't going to 'teach' Stella to love her grandma and killer daddy and conspirator uncle but hate her mommy. It isn't going to work that way.

Sadly it all about the money it seems and I thought the inclusion of 'therapy' in the mix was a little forthright at this stage. There are other concerns more pressing for this child.

 

[Kamille]

Heather Mack has acknowledged she is under threat of prosecution in the United States, citing an “ongoing federal criminal proceeding” in a fresh round of court filings this week.

The 21-year-old Chicagoan, imprisoned in Indonesia, made the claim as she asserted her Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination in a legal battle scheduled to return to a Cook County courtroom Friday. She said she would continue to do so “until she is no longer under the threat of criminal prosecution in America or Indonesia.”

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/fearing-u-s-prosecution-heather-mack-takes-the-fifth/

Plead the fifth? On what? Isn't Friday a continuation of the legal arguments regarding the trust fund and discussions regarding KW's filing for guardianship? What is HM pleading the fifth to? Were they going to be asking her questions over the phone? About the video?

:waitasec:

 

[whatthewhaat]

Heather Mack has acknowledged she is under threat of prosecution in the United States, citing an “ongoing federal criminal proceeding” in a fresh round of court filings this week.

The 21-year-old Chicagoan, imprisoned in Indonesia, made the claim as she asserted her Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination in a legal battle scheduled to return to a Cook County courtroom Friday. She said she would continue to do so “until she is no longer under the threat of criminal prosecution in America or Indonesia.”

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/fearing-u-s-prosecution-heather-mack-takes-the-fifth/

Does this mean she's just refusing to testify on Friday (and forever)? Until shes not at risk of prosecution? Does she think this is the answer, that the proceedings won't go on without her? I'm so confused by this lol

 

[Kamille]

Yeah...what she said ^^^ :floorlaugh:

Is this a variation of "I'm taking my toys and leaving the sandbox"? Or in her case "I'm putting you on block on my cell phone until the FBI promises to leave me alone"?

 

[ajaylee]

I really wish HM had also gotten 18 years so Stella would no longer be a minor when she gets out. But, the money will probably be gone by the time HM gets out. I posted an old story in Dec 2015, (I believe), that $400K in attorneys fees had been spent. The trust was only $1.5M to start with. I bet the attorney's fees are approaching $1M. Its been since Aug 2014 that Sheila was murdered.

Keep in mind that the trust isn't a fixed sum, and if it's being properly managed, it's been doing very well in today's market. Not enough to replace what's been spent, but quite a bit.

 

[ajaylee]

Regardless of who was responsible for uploading those confession videos, fact is that she made them...for some reason. And we'll likely never know what the true reason was.

But I sure hope they pissed off the officials in Kerobokan so that if they even considered letting HM out on early parole because of Stella, that they are angry enough to want her to do the whole 9 years and 11 months at this point.

MOO

She better be careful. Renee Lawrence, one of the Bali 9, was a favorite of the Kerobokan boss and was even made a 'trustee'. She even got a 6-month sentence reduction, with the possibility of more. Then she supposedly got involved in a ridiculous plot - part of her punishment was to send her off to a much smaller prison, difficult for visitors to get to, and with a lot less in the way of 'facilities'.

I wonder who HM told that she was going to plead the 5th? It's not clear to me if she posted it somewhere or otherwise contacted the reporter. I don't see an attorney's name mentioned.

 

[FigTree]

Plead the fifth? On what? Isn't Friday a continuation of the legal arguments regarding the trust fund and discussions regarding KW's filing for guardianship? What is HM pleading the fifth to? Were they going to be asking her questions over the phone? About the video?

:waitasec:

The most astounding thing is that she doesn't want to talk.
That's a headline!

I bet it has to do with the video confession...

If we start there, HM's reason for the video was that she had been forced into a confession by TS to say those things.
If that was the case - then the Fifth Amendment section regarding Self Incrimination might be played.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...mack-boyfriend-statements-20170209-story.html
Chicago-area woman imprisoned in Indonesia for killing her mother has retracted statements made in YouTube videos that her boyfriend, also convicted in the same case, was innocent.
A statement released by Heather Mack and her lawyer Yulius Benyamin Seran on Wednesday said the assertions in the videos were false and recorded under pressure. The statement said Mack, 21, was reading words written by her boyfriend Tommy Schaefer, formerly of Oak Park.
-----
Bali prison warden Tonny Nainggolan said authorities were investigating who recorded and uploaded the videos. He said neither Mack nor Schaefer had admitted to producing or uploading the videos and blamed each other.

Extract from full article...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
The Fifth Amendment protects individuals from being forced to incriminate themselves. Incriminating oneself is defined as exposing oneself (or another person) to "an accusation or charge of crime," or as involving oneself (or another person) "in a criminal prosecution or the danger thereof."[34] The privilege against compelled self-incrimination is defined as "the constitutional right of a person to refuse to answer questions or otherwise give testimony against himself. ... "[35] To "plead the Fifth" is to refuse to answer any question because "the implications of the question, in the setting in which it is asked" lead a claimant to possess a "reasonable cause to apprehend danger from a direct answer", believing that "a responsive answer to the question or an explanation of why it cannot be answered might be dangerous because injurious disclosure could result."[36]
Historically, the legal protection against compelled self-incrimination was directly related to the question of torture for extracting information and confessions.[37][38]

She is more a danger to herself, but she has certainly put herself in the ring by pointing the finger at TS and the entire legal system in Bali and the US.
Unfortunately, her expression and subsequent lies regarding her mother as murdering her father were already proven to be medically proven false before she made that video, so who is she really trying to shaft in the video?

The articel below is a good summary of what went down and the manipulation that was used at the time by HM & TS -
and why her charges and her sentence were reduced at the time of her trial ...

Bali suitcase murder trial transcript includes haunting details
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-bali-heather-mack-trial-transcript-met-20150705-story.html

Heather Mack, 19, is serving a 10-year prison term for "deliberately aiding in the commission of a premeditated murder," according to the translated Denpasar District Court record.
-----
The three-judge panel found that Mack's crime was deliberate and premeditated. Still, the panel wrote, Mack is worthy of leniency given her remorse and need to care for her baby, which "will be very difficult to provide if the defendant has to be imprisoned for too long."
Lawyers in the trust case declined to comment on the importance of the transcript. They return to Cook County court in August. Meanwhile, Mack's baby remains with her in prison, but one of her lawyers recently said she may let a Bali woman who is helping her with baby supplies and other aid to temporarily raise the child until Mack is freed.
The transcribed pages also contain a log of the physical evidence police gathered in their investigation. Included in the inventory was a blood-covered white Victoria's Secret shirt, size small, with the word "Angel" on the front.
Mack testified that the blood got on her shirt when she gave her slain mother a final hug.

The videos may incriminate her further - which means the Slayer can be enforced and she could be up for further charges if she goes back to the States.
I'd say she's already exposed much of the lawyers who were wheeling and dealing behind the scenes.
As for displaying any remorse - there is none. Full stop.

But who knows in this circus.

 

[Kamille]

She better be careful. Renee Lawrence, one of the Bali 9, was a favorite of the Kerobokan boss and was even made a 'trustee'. She even got a 6-month sentence reduction, with the possibility of more. Then she supposedly got involved in a ridiculous plot - part of her punishment was to send her off to a much smaller prison, difficult for visitors to get to, and with a lot less in the way of 'facilities'.

I wonder who HM told that she was going to plead the 5th? It's not clear to me if she posted it somewhere or otherwise contacted the reporter. I don't see an attorney's name mentioned.

I thought the article said it was in court papers that were filed?

Heather Mack has acknowledged she is under threat of prosecution in the United States, citing an “ongoing federal criminal proceeding” in a fresh round of court filings this week.

The 21-year-old Chicagoan, imprisoned in Indonesia, made the claim as she asserted her Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination in a legal battle scheduled to return to a Cook County courtroom on Friday. She said she would continue to do so “until she is no longer under the threat of criminal prosecution in America or Indonesia.”

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/fearing-u-s-prosecution-heather-mack-takes-the-fifth/

So she filed documents ahead of the scheduled court proceedings for tomorrow? :waitasec:

 

[Kamille]

HM's new lawyer. Would still like to know how she's paying him. Is he doing this for free because he's an "advocate"? Free publicity? He posted the info on his FB page. Or did she tell him she's a millionaire heiress and her people with get him the money sometime soon? :dunno:

https://id.linkedin.com/in/yulius-benyamin-seran-a8914b38

https://www.facebook.com/Legalservices.Bali/

 

[Kamille]

Wow...he's really posting about how his "client" should be able to decide what happens with Stella. So Elkin is out then? And where is Favia in all this. She is supposed to be Stella's attorney but she was supposedly hired by HM. So how is she still in this? Is she getting paid? And if so, how? Is the trust paying her? I know she was denied that huge amount she asked for right at the beginning.

https://www.facebook.com/Legalservices.Bali/

Another of his pages

https://www.blogger.com/profile/09413405712729253427