Bedwetting

[trixie]

I always thought that she never made it to bed that night. I think that the whole she fell asleep in the car and stayed asleep story was a "keep it simple" lie. Its easier to lie when you don't have a whole lot of details.

If she played at the Whites she probably didn't eat much and would have been hungry upon returning home. I think she was wake and eating that night. As far as the urine stained clothing she was found in - usually terror will make you empty your bladder.

I never believed that PR killed her because of a bed wetting incident. I don't think the Mag light was the murder weapon. I think the Ramsey's did it, or at the least participated in the cover-up (and that makes them just as guilty in my mind).

I don't think the maglite was the murder weapon eithor. I have no guesses as to what was.

 

[txsvicki]

I think it's a form of abuse to wake a child up during sleep every night to go to the bathroom. My pediatrician told me years ago not to make a big deal out of bedwetting, that some kids have more problems and it would go away by age 12 or so. Why not just get rid of the bubble bath and use the pull ups at night. I can't make up my mind about this case either. I think there are pedophiles nutty and evil enough to do this but can't ignore the signs of a cover up either.

 

[Zman]

The disparity is JR & PR said they tucked her in her bed on the night of the 25th.

Well I'm confused. I don't see what UKGuys post has to do with the night of the 25th. Her sheets are from the 24th. Her pj's are from the morning of the 25th and she's put to bed on the same sheets the night of the 25th. I'm missing the disparity here. Help me out.

 

[Cranberry]

Well I'm confused. I don't see what UKGuys post has to do with the night of the 25th. Her sheets are from the 24th. Her pj's are from the morning of the 25th and she's put to bed on the same sheets the night of the 25th. I'm missing the disparity here. Help me out.

The blanket: was it untucked, then taken off the bed, bed remade with comforter pulled back and left the room with JBR or was it removed from the dryer?

 

[Nuisanceposter]

The blanket: was it untucked, then taken off the bed, bed remade with comforter pulled back and left the room with JBR or was it removed from the dryer?

Either way, what intruder would go to all of that trouble - seeking out a blanket to cover the girl he just ruthlessly strangled to death? And why her blanket? There must have been others available - at my house we have a stack of blankets in the living room so the kids can curl up on the sofa while watching tv. I have a really difficult time believing some foreign faction would bother to find JonBenet's blanket, or Barbie nightgown, for that matter, and place them with her before he leaves. That's something someone who cared about her would do.

 

[Shanny]

I don't think she wet the bed that night I believe her bladder was realeased at the time of her death because her long john's were soiled but there were no urine stains on her bed.

JonBenet was a bedwetter. There is much dispute about whether or not she wet the bed on the night she died. I seriously doubt she was killed for a wet bed but neither do I believe that she did NOT wet the bed that night. Here's why:-

Her parents claim that she fell asleep in the car coming home from the White's house shortly after 9pm. They claim that she did not waken and was put straight to bed. THEREFORE she was not toiletted. If she did not go the toilet after attending a Christmas party, it is likely that she would have needed to empty her bladder within a few hours.

The options therefore are as follows:-

If she did not wet the bed (RST claim):-
- She DID go to the toilet and was therefore awake
- She died before she could wet the bed or go to the lavatory

OR
She DID wet the bed

 

[Zman]

The blanket: was it untucked, then taken off the bed, bed remade with comforter pulled back and left the room with JBR or was it removed from the dryer?

What the one she was found wrapped in?



Why is it that JBR could have played on her bed that day and messed it up? Why would it have to be tucked? I guess I'm still missing the point.

 

[Linda7NJ]

What the one she was found wrapped in?



Why is it that JBR could have played on her bed that day and messed it up? Why would it have to be tucked? I guess I'm still missing the point.

Ask yourself why a murderer covers his/HER victim.

 

[Zman]

Ask yourself why a murderer covers his/HER victim.

OK

Zman, why would a murderer cover his/HER victim?

So the victim will be less obviously seen.

 

[UKGuy]

The blanket: was it untucked, then taken off the bed, bed remade with comforter pulled back and left the room with JBR or was it removed from the dryer?

Could be either. Also depending on where you think she was killed will swing you one way or the other.

The bedding may have been through the wash on the day of the 25th, Patsy may have assumed or ordained that JonBenet will be sleeping in Burke's room, so she will wash some items from JonBenet's room. Or its your initial answer, but who put her pink pijamas back, that is why not wash them too?

Or JonBenet was killed in or near her bedroom, then it had bedding removed and put through the wash downstairs, JonBenet was washed and re-dressed upstairs, then she was carried down to the basement.

If you have just forensically cleaned a body, then you will want to take care not to contaminate either yourself or your surroundings, so you may wrap her body in the white blanket so to avoid this. Or as is suggested the blanket was sourced in the basement, probably with a similar forensic rationale. There is not much point in wrapping her up in a blanket before you clean her up!

So imo, its not an act of kindness to wrap her in a blanket or an intention to hide her, but an attempt to minimize forensic transfer.

 

[Jayelles]

I don't think she wet the bed that night I believe her bladder was realeased at the time of her death because her long john's were soiled but there were no urine stains on her bed.

We're back to the same old argument then. The facts remain:-

1. You cannot tell from a photo whether polycotton, multipatterned sheets were wet some hours before when the house was warm and they would have dried.

2. The sheets tested positive for creatin - which is in urine.

Not all urine is dark in colour. I used to work in a health centre and handled many urine samples. Some were crystal clear.

Question - were there sheets in the tumble dryer?

 

[Linda7NJ]

OK

Zman, why would a murderer cover his/HER victim?

So the victim will be less obviously seen.

If that were the case, why leave the body at all? Especially since the murderer spent all that time writing that spiffy three page ransom note.


Also, it would be far easier to stuff a little body out of site all together. NOPE Zman, it wasn't so the victim wouldn't be obviously seen. No way.

 

[Cranberry]

What the one she was found wrapped in?



Why is it that JBR could have played on her bed that day and messed it up? Why would it have to be tucked? I guess I'm still missing the point.

Yes she was found in the cellar wrapped in the blanket that PR said she tucked her in the bed with. IMO the bed appears not to have been slept in because the comforter is in place. The killer would have to untuck the generous size twin blanket from around the bed and take JBR and remake the bed pulling up the comforter. If the blanket wasn't on the bed to begin with (if left in the dryer) that conflicts with what PR said about it being on the bed. The dryer was in close proximity to the crime scene and barbie nightgown could have came out of the dryer with the blanket.

 

[sandraladeda]

If you have just forensically cleaned a body, then you will want to take care not to contaminate either yourself or your surroundings, so you may wrap her body in the white blanket so to avoid this. Or as is suggested the blanket was sourced in the basement, probably with a similar forensic rationale. There is not much point in wrapping her up in a blanket before you clean her up!

So imo, its not an act of kindness to wrap her in a blanket or an intention to hide her, but an attempt to minimize forensic transfer.

There would still be a transfer of evidence. Blanket fibers onto the killer, fibers from the killer's clothes (and hair, perhaps?) onto the blanket. If the perp is clever enough to want to minimize the transfer of evidence, then he/she is clever enough to know this. They would really be clever if they used the blanket to move the body, then remove the blanket completely from the scene, burned it, threw it in a river, whatever....

imo

 

[UKGuy]

There would still be a transfer of evidence. Blanket fibers onto the killer, fibers from the killer's clothes (and hair, perhaps?) onto the blanket. If the perp is clever enough to want to minimize the transfer of evidence, then he/she is clever enough to know this. They would really be clever if they used the blanket to move the body, then remove the blanket completely from the scene, burned it, threw it in a river, whatever....

imo

sandraladeda,

Thanks for your reply. I agree with what you have written. What I propose may be incorrect but I am trying to suggest an alternative interpretation to the conventional offering.

They would really be clever if they used the blanket to move the body, then remove the blanket completely from the scene, burned it, threw it in a river, whatever....
imo

Well as I've posted before, I think the wine-cellar crime scene was an attempt at staging to make it appear more as if an intruder had abducted JonBenet from her bed, but it was interrupted at some point, since she was intended to be found wearing her barbie-gown. So the removal of the blanket from the wine-cellar would in all likelyhood, have followed, as you suggest.

Also after JR took JonBenet's body upstairs, both he and PR had contact with the body, and curiously in this context, JR placed a blanket over JonBenet, and somone else spread a Colorado Avalanche Sweatshirt over her bare feet. All this destroyed the possibility of any consistent forensics analysis, since who was to say where any fibers originated from now?

And I believe John Ramsey took a shower that morning which would have washed away any remnants of forensic evidence, left on him by cross-transfer.

 

[UKGuy]

Yes she was found in the cellar wrapped in the blanket that PR said she tucked her in the bed with. IMO the bed appears not to have been slept in because the comforter is in place. The killer would have to untuck the generous size twin blanket from around the bed and take JBR and remake the bed pulling up the comforter. If the blanket wasn't on the bed to begin with (if left in the dryer) that conflicts with what PR said about it being on the bed. The dryer was in close proximity to the crime scene and barbie nightgown could have came out of the dryer with the blanket.

Cranberry,

And when Patsy's memory is in total recall mode you know she wants you to listen and believe.

And if she has had a memory malfunction, and she did wash the blanket and finish it off in the dryer, lets say along with the barbie-gown, why leave her pink pijamas upstairs. And does this inconsistency as to the blankets origin suggest JonBenet's bedroom was forensically wiped, and Patsy's version is conflated?

 

[Cranberry]

Cranberry,

And when Patsy's memory is in total recall mode you know she wants you to listen and believe.

And if she has had a memory malfunction, and she did wash the blanket and finish it off in the dryer, lets say along with the barbie-gown, why leave her pink pijamas upstairs. And does this inconsistency as to the blankets origin suggest JonBenet's bedroom was forensically wiped, and Patsy's version is conflated?

IMO the sheets were changed on the 24th (leaving the pink jammie top under the pillow after Christmas morning of the 25th) and the blanket was left in the cellar dryer on the 24th. This would leave sheets in the upstairs dryer that LHP put on the 23rd. If I remember the upstairs was used for the sheets and downstairs for blankets.

 

[itsreenw]

Good points, Jayelles.

If she did go to the toilet during the night (on her own or escorted by a parent?), this would be the ideal time to go for a snack of pineapple.


On the topic of bedwetting, it occurred to me that, a child who wets the bed quite regularly could conceivably suffer more vaginal irritations than a non-bed wetting child. To wet oneself, then marinate in one's own urine for several hours could be quite irritating to delicate tissues. This could account for the numerous doctor's visits, and provide a stronger explanation for her condition than the possibility that she had been molested.

imho

Sandraladeda, that doesn't explain the old injuries inside her vagina.

 

[Zman]

Yes she was found in the cellar wrapped in the blanket that PR said she tucked her in the bed with. IMO the bed appears not to have been slept in because the comforter is in place. The killer would have to untuck the generous size twin blanket from around the bed and take JBR and remake the bed pulling up the comforter. If the blanket wasn't on the bed to begin with (if left in the dryer) that conflicts with what PR said about it being on the bed. The dryer was in close proximity to the crime scene and barbie nightgown could have came out of the dryer with the blanket.

Do we know what PR meant by tucked? Has she detailed that anywhere?

If that were the case, why leave the body at all? Especially since the murderer spent all that time writing that spiffy three page ransom note.


Also, it would be far easier to stuff a little body out of site all together. NOPE Zman, it wasn't so the victim wouldn't be obviously seen. No way..

Because they lost the nerve to remove her from the house?
Maybe the reality of carrying a dead 6 yo outside was more scary than the fantasy.

Why do you think it would be easier to stuff her body out of site? Where would you put her?

Its quite amusing to find that some think it must be a fake RN because a kidnapper would remove the body from the house, yet they also think the R's would leave the body in the house and then write a fake RN.

Why should the Kidnappers be held to a higher standard?

2. The sheets tested positive for creatin - which is in urine.
..

I'm sure this is a fact that I've missed along the way but Jayelles can you please pinpoint the source of this test for me?

 

[Cranberry]

I don't know what PR meant by tucked or how she would tuck in except tuck her in the bed with the sheets and blankets tucked in I assume. With the comforter on top of the bed the blanket wouldn't come off like a magicians tablecloth trick. Unless it was remade or not there in the first place. IMO