Big Bugaboo

[UKGuy]

Ah, but see I don't think Patsy did give JonBenet the pineapple. I think JonBenet took the pineapple herself without their knowledge and that is why we have a bugaboo.

Note that the Ramseys questioned the pineapple evidence. "Are you sure?" Asking to see photos of the pineapple. Patsy questioning the point about the fingerprints being on the bowl. They were very suspicious that the police were lying.

John seems indignant about the pineapple and the fact that Lou keeps telling him that they needed to get to the bottom of the it. There's lots of stuttering, half finished sentences in his responses





UNTIL Lou settles on the theory that a familiar perp might have fed it to her - an intruder whom she recognised. Then John seems to become more confident in his responses.

Jayelles,

I think JonBenet took the pineapple herself without their knowledge and that is why we have a bugaboo.

It seem as if the definition of the bugaboo is shifting. It does not matter what you or I think about JonBenet snacking pineapple, because we were not there!

What the pineapple residue in her stomach tells us is that JonBenet was alive and awake during a specific time-frame after the Ramsey's returned from the White's!

This contradicts the parents version of events, they say she was placed sleeping into bed, and then they went to bed.

The forensic evidence tells you JonBenet was awake and walking about the Ramsey house long after they allegedly went to bed.

We do not have any bugaboo, but the Ramsey's version of events is rendered inconsistent due to the discovery of the pineapple residue.

This inconsistency or bugaboo adds to any investigators perception of events, and reduces considerably the credibility of the Ramsey version.

I repeat we do not have a bugaboo the Ramsey's, and Lou Smit may have though!



.

 

[Eagle1]

Could the pineapple have been left in the bowl on the table from earlier in the day? Maybe JonBenet' was asleep when she came home from the White's. Maybe she woke up feeling hungry because she had not eaten much at the party, saw the pineapple that was left out and ate it.

Of course it's possible that at lunch time, JonBenet wanted some pineapple for desert and they left the bowl on the table, and then she ate more when they came home. I'm not denying that the R's sometimes lied.

NP's statement that pineapple was the LAST thing eaten is certainly important. And fresh pineapple does go bad pretty fast. Also the stomach contents would have deteriorated pretty fast, so they probably couldn't be kept as evidence.

The pineapple and the dictionary prove those wrong, I think, who declare repeatedly "There's no forensic evidence of an intruder." We have absolutely no proof whatsoever that it was the R's who left both clues, but were so efficient about cleaning up all other clues, and what non-committal answers to give. They weren't stupid.

Pineapple was eaten LAST, so, even though family prints were on the bowl, we have no proof WHO gave it to her after their returning home.

Likewise the dictionary. They were educated enough not to need to look up the word "incest". And Burke seemed to cope with things by hiding in his bed pretending to be asleep, but said he heard the house creaking that night.

He would hardly leave a dictionary open and dog-eared to a word that he wouldn't want his father knowing he looked up, now would he?

Someone said in another thread, maybe the note writer was looking up the correct spelling of another word, "individual". Again, a journalizm major would not have trouble with the spelling and look up one word but not another, such as "business", imo, although that was good creative thinking from our poster. And the unusually large dog-ear, from the bottom, was said to be pointing to exactly the word "incest". Making it an obviously-planted clue to someone familiar other than family, the parents seemed so too-trusting, not using the alarm, leaving windows partially open to accomodate Christmas lights wiring, etc. If there was an intruder he probably even had a key, he would have been so familiar. But I digress, and now back to the excellent pineapple clues discussion.

 

[Jayelles]

Jayelles,



It seem as if the definition of the bugaboo is shifting. It does not matter what you or I think about JonBenet snacking pineapple, because we were not there!

What the pineapple residue in her stomach tells us is that JonBenet was alive and awake during a specific time-frame after the Ramsey's returned from the White's!

Not quite - the other option is that she ate it before going to the Whites and died VERY soon after arriving home. IMO, that is a much more damning scenario for the ramseys.

Elsewhere, a poster makes an excellent point:-

So it is quite hard to imagine that the Ramseys, who had hired the best lawyers/experts to assist them in their defense, could not or would not
have gotten some expert advice on what the pineapple findings implied. If it was clear that police investigators would strongly conclude the pineapple likely was eaten after they got home (and even Lou Smit admits the pineapple is problematic), then why not either admit they fed it to her (if that's what they did) or open up the possibility that JBR/Burke could have gotten up in the middle of the night to eat some after they had gone to bed? It just really doesn't make sense. Flat out denial of the pineapple has always made the Ramseys look like liars in the eyes of RDI proponents, so why not deny their critics that lever? The very fact that they deny something even though it makes them look more guilty is part of what convinces me they likely are telling the truth.

Why not indeed? My guess (and it is a guess) lies in my perception of the Ramsey character. If they admitted they'd lied about Jonbenet being asleep - if only to try and provide an innocent explanation for the pineapple - would be extremely damning for them. It's too big a lie and if both of them had colluded in the lie about something as important as the events during the final hours of their daughter's life, then they would be in very deep doodoo indeed.

The Ramseys had already locked themselves into their stories - better to have a bugaboo which cannot be proved one way or the other than to admit they'd colluded in such a big lie.

 

[UKGuy]

Not quite - the other option is that she ate it before going to the Whites and died VERY soon after arriving home. IMO, that is a much more damning scenario for the ramseys.

Elsewhere, a poster makes an excellent point:-


Why not indeed? My guess (and it is a guess) lies in my perception of the Ramsey character. If they admitted they'd lied about Jonbenet being asleep - if only to try and provide an innocent explanation for the pineapple - would be extremely damning for them. It's too big a lie and if both of them had colluded in the lie about something as important as the events during the final hours of their daughter's life, then they would be in very deep doodoo indeed.

The Ramseys had already locked themselves into their stories - better to have a bugaboo which cannot be proved one way or the other than to admit they'd colluded in such a big lie.

Jayelles,

Not quite - the other option is that she ate it before going to the Whites and died VERY soon after arriving home. IMO, that is a much more damning scenario for the ramseys.

Excepting that JonBenet consumed crab at the White's party, and that the pineapple was the last thing she ate, as confirmed by its position in her digestive system.


.

 

[coloradokares]

Jayelles,



It seem as if the definition of the bugaboo is shifting. It does not matter what you or I think about JonBenet snacking pineapple, because we were not there!

What the pineapple residue in her stomach tells us is that JonBenet was alive and awake during a specific time-frame after the Ramsey's returned from the White's!

This contradicts the parents version of events, they say she was placed sleeping into bed, and then they went to bed.

The forensic evidence tells you JonBenet was awake and walking about the Ramsey house long after they allegedly went to bed.

We do not have any bugaboo, but the Ramsey's version of events is rendered inconsistent due to the discovery of the pineapple residue.

This inconsistency or bugaboo adds to any investigators perception of events, and reduces considerably the credibility of the Ramsey version.

I repeat we do not have a bugaboo the Ramsey's, and Lou Smit may have though!



.

Note John becomes more comfortable if Lou Smit puts a familiar intruder twist to it. Oh good more proof from which to throw friends under the bus with. Yessss.... must have been good old Fleet..... or Santa or Barnhill or LHP or her husband or on and on and on one by one the tires of the bus go bump bump bump. Maybe the finger prints were Patsys.....and it was but one more inconsistency they will never explain.

 

[UKGuy]

Note John becomes more comfortable if Lou Smit puts a familiar intruder twist to it. Oh good more proof from which to throw friends under the bus with. Yessss.... must have been good old Fleet..... or Santa or Barnhill or LHP or her husband or on and on and on one by one the tires of the bus go bump bump bump. Maybe the finger prints were Patsys.....and it was but one more inconsistency they will never explain.

coloradokares,

Sure, and without Lou Smit, the Ramsey's may have been looking at a homicide charge, many people including the media accepted Lou Smit's authority and went for the intruder theory.

That bowl is Patsy's, it has her fingerprints all over it. The pineapple is fresh cut, straight out of Safeway's, the scene is domestic, nothing out place or untoward. But Patsy denies ever seing the bowl!

Do they expect Lou Smit to magic a psychotic pedophile out of thin air, who has a fetish for feeding 6-year old girls fresh cut pineapple from his own bowl, brought specifically for this purpose, yet despite being so meticulous in removing other evidence, he leaves his bowl behind?

.

 

[JMO8778]

I repeat we do not have a bugaboo the Ramsey's, and Lou Smit may have though!



.

LS is a bug and a boo,all rolled into one. JMO

 

[coloradokares]

coloradokares,

Sure, and without Lou Smit, the Ramsey's may have been looking at a homicide charge, many people including the media accepted Lou Smit's authority and went for the intruder theory.

That bowl is Patsy's, it has her fingerprints all over it. The pineapple is fresh cut, straight out of Safeway's, the scene is domestic, nothing out place or untoward. But Patsy denies ever seing the bowl!

Do they expect Lou Smit to magic a psychotic pedophile out of thin air, who has a fetish for feeding 6-year old girls fresh cut pineapple from his own bowl, brought specifically for this purpose, yet despite being so meticulous in removing other evidence, he leaves his bowl behind?

.

Well with Michael Traceys help he finally did.....JMK. Took him a while to get that rabbit drug out of the hat.

 

[Dru]

...the pineapple is one of those clues that points overwhelmingly to the R's involvement.

Not only because it's their house, their dish, and presumably their pineapple, so why act all uncertain about it. But also, and more importantly, because the intruder scenario becomes just so farfetched at this point.

The pineapple had been in JBR's system for at least two hours before she was killed. So our hypothetical intruder had to get into the house (possibly while the R's were at the White's), familiarize himself with the layout, location of such items as the RN pad, the rope, etc., but also rummage through the R's kitchen for a food item JBR will want to eat. Then he had to abduct JBR from her bed, feed her pineapple, and wait around for two hours before he killed her. Even if he were someone she knew, this would be hard to believe, but an unknown intruder? Impossible.

 

[Chrishope]

So when did the intruder use the stun gun? Before or after feeding her pineapple?

If he plies her with pineapple to get her out of her room, why does he need to use a stun gun later?

If he uses a stun gun to get her out of her room, why does he need to feed her pineapple?

 

[coloradokares]

So when did the intruder use the stun gun? Before or after feeding her pineapple?

If he plies her with pineapple to get her out of her room, why does he need to use a stun gun later?

If he uses a stun gun to get her out of her room, why does he need to feed her pineapple?

What we have here is a failure to communicate. ROTFLMHO :laugh:

 

[Becba]

The Ramseys had to stick to the story that JonBenet was asleep when they got home and put straight to bed. Obviously she was awake to eat pineapple. Did she get up and serve herself? Did one of her parents get angry because they had an early morning schedule and JonBenet wanted to eat and also wet herself? Did feed her pineapple and molest her after?

 

[icedtea4me]

The Ramseys had to stick to the story that JonBenet was asleep when they got home and put straight to bed. Obviously she was awake to eat pineapple. Did she get up and serve herself? Did one of her parents get angry because they had an early morning schedule and JonBenet wanted to eat and also wet herself? Did feed her pineapple and molest her after?

DOI pp. 2-3 (hb version) - Now, with Christmas morning here, Santa had just one more thing to do before the little ones waiting on the third floor were allowed to rip into the picturesque setting. I slipped out to the garage and quickly wheeled in a new bike for Patsy.


-Tea

 

[azwriter]

This is the first fact of this case (this lie) that turned me from innocent to maybe they're involved. She had pineapple...why lie about it. It was so easy to tell the truth on this so yes there must be something they were trying to hide by lying.

If Patsy and John admit that JonBenet had pineapple, then they have to admit she was wide awake when they arrived home. For some reason it was important to tell authorities their daughter was put safely into bed. So, a lie about the pineapple is necessary.
Also wasn't there a glass with a tea bag and a spoon in it on the table ?
I think I also heard Burke was fold of tea. Was that his night time snack?
JMO

 

[Ames]

If Patsy and John admit that JonBenet had pineapple, then they have to admit she was wide awake when they arrived home. For some reason it was important to tell authorities their daughter was put safely into bed. So, a lie about the pineapple is necessary.
Also wasn't there a glass with a tea bag and a spoon in it on the table ?
I think I also heard Burke was fold of tea. Was that his night time snack?
JMO

Exactly! It makes keeping the story straight alot easier...and makes the "intruder" theory fit..if they say that they tucked her safely into bed, and that was the last time that they saw her alive.

 

[JMO8778]

Plus,lawyers like to use the KISS theory...it helps keep the story straight.JB was put straight to bed,BR never woke up...except,they forgot to ask if JB had anything to EAT ! opps..

..and..PR didn't hang up right away...BR on the 911 tape..another oops.

 

[coloradokares]

Plus,lawyers like to use the KISS theory...it helps keep the story straight.JB was put straight to bed,BR never woke up...except,they forgot to ask if JB had anything to EAT ! opps..

..and..PR didn't hang up right away...BR on the 911 tape..another oops.

There are more opps than that. The red turtleneck wet and crumpled. The little matter of the receipts for the exact amount at Mc Guckins. If any of you are ever in Boulder don't miss the trip to McGuckins. If you can't find it anywhere else McGuckins will have it.

 

[Ames]

Plus,lawyers like to use the KISS theory...it helps keep the story straight.JB was put straight to bed,BR never woke up...except,they forgot to ask if JB had anything to EAT ! opps..

..and..PR didn't hang up right away...BR on the 911 tape..another oops.

Burke seemed to have forgotten the story about JB being asleep..says she walked in and even helped to carry presents....OOPS! John and Patsy saying at first that JB was awake, and read and sang to....OOPS! So many OOPSIES....too little time. LOL

 

[Daisy]

Good points on the oopsies everyone! The thing about these Ramsey oopsies that makes my eyes roll back into my head is that they're not just teeny tiny oopsies but HUGE ones. We're talking story #2 is a big contradiction of story #1 and stories # 3,4,5, etc. all contradict each other as well. JBR was or was not awake. Is that so hard to remember? I think I'd definitely remember if my kid was awake or not without having to correct myself (well, "amend the story" is a better way of putting it). Then denying she was fed pineapple when it's obviously in her stomach? When they couldn't answer that one, then all of a sudden this pineapple and bowl become "mystery pineapple and bowl". :doh: Funny thing is they expected everyone to believe it. I don't know if anyone truly truly truly believed this line of crap. I think those in cahoots with the Ramsey's (such as a certain D.A. for one) CHOSE to do the mental gymnastics to make it fit into the IDI theory and spread that onto the [much wiser] public.

 

[angelwngs]

If Patsy and John admit that JonBenet had pineapple, then they have to admit she was wide awake when they arrived home. For some reason it was important to tell authorities their daughter was put safely into bed. So, a lie about the pineapple is necessary.
Also wasn't there a glass with a tea bag and a spoon in it on the table ?
I think I also heard Burke was fold of tea. Was that his night time snack?
JMO

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http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j149/whynut/2006-06-29_schiller12.jpg

Here's a photo of the pineapple, teabag in glass and box of tissue on the kitchen table. Does it look as if an "intruder" logically placed any of this on this table?
We know whose fingerprints are on the bowl and the glass but what about the spoon? I wonder if JBR didn't just pick up the pineapple with her fingers and eat it or if Burke was eating it and JBR asked for some and he dipped the spoon into the bowl and offered it on the spoon with JBR never touching the spoon...
Also, the teabag looks as if an adult put it in the glass and draped the string over the top of the glass for easy removal... after a cup of hot tea was made and the glass just became the vessel for holding the used teabag...
The fact that pineapple was found as the last item entering in JBR's digestive system combined with this photo make for some very interesting questions.
The only logical reason for a box of kleenex on a kitchen table is someone is sick with a cold, sore throat and runny nose, (which would also explain a cup of hot tea), or someone is upset and crying... As a parent I always tried to avoid and discourage the use of kleenex and tissue to wipe sticky fingers or sticky mouth because of the mess it made...
This photo speaks volumes to me........