Bosma Murder Trial 02.18.16 - Day 11

[swedie]

Could have been the 8th. I can't find the phone record for that day. Anyone else?

Sorry if this has been answered or found, but I do not recall seeing a map for May 8th, in regard to cell phone pings. Could it be the Crown hasn't brought that map forward yet as they want to show what day/morning the truck seats were burned at the farmland (aligning with the testimony of the farmer who say smoke) and where else the phones ping that day. I would imagine it was a very busy day for DM trying to cover his trial. MOO.

 

[RandomName479]

I found most of the witnesses today, giving some of the most useful testimony yet. All those little dots are being connected.The timeline being developed seems really solid.
On another note, ...the bones. Does anyone know if it was stated, (where in tweets, if so.) that it is simply the location of where the bone(s) were burning in the incinerator that allowed them to remain intact ? I am wondering why the radius might stay intact over a skull?

FWIW (I'm not an expert in forensic anthropology in any way, shape or form), but the skull is made up of 22 bones....fairly small and thin.....I wouldn't expect these to really be intact.

Also, I believe it was the humerus that was somewhat intact (although warped by the heat), not the radius.....

You bring up an interesting point though....the femur....being the largest bone....don't recall any testimony about them.....so you may be onto something? It does seem like they tried to clean out the incinerator, but obviously didn't do such a great job....maybe the location of these more intact bones were due to them being in a more difficult location to clean out?

 

[billandrew]

I found most of the witnesses today, giving some of the most useful testimony yet. All those little dots are being connected.The timeline being developed seems really solid.
On another note, ...the bones. Does anyone know if it was stated, (where in tweets, if so.) that it is simply the location of where the bone(s) were burning in the incinerator that allowed them to remain intact ? I am wondering why the radius might stay intact over a skull?

From what I understood of Dr. Rogers's testimony, it was apparent to her that the other bones had been cleaned out of the incinerator. It's not that the bone they retrieved was necessarily the only bone that survived, but rather that it was left behind (carelessly) when the incinerator was cleaned out. Then again, she also made a comment about the bones crumbling easily, so I'm not 100% sure. Perhaps someone else can clarify?

 

[Night_is_Mine]

The skull is probably at the bottom of that swamp.

 

[redwing7225]

Sorry if this has been answered or found, but I do not recall seeing a map for May 8th, in regard to cell phone pings. Could it be the Crown hasn't brought that map forward yet as they want to show what day/morning the truck seats were burned at the farmland (aligning with the testimony of the farmer who say smoke) and where else the phones ping that day. I would imagine it was a very busy day for DM trying to cover his trial. MOO.

someone graciously posted the video on day 10 thread, page 29, post #423. i went through it this morning (SEE POST 275 from today) but i know there's "step by step" in print form somewhere on the threads, just needing to locate it. can someone pls lead me in the correct direction. TIA

 

[Kamille]

From what I understood of Dr. Rogers's testimony, it was apparent to her that the other bones had been cleaned out of the incinerator. It's not that the bone they retrieved was necessarily the only bone that survived, but rather that it was left behind (carelessly) when the incinerator was cleaned out. Then again, she also made a comment about the bones crumbling easily, so I'm not 100% sure. Perhaps someone else can clarify?

Shannon Martin ‏@ShannonMartinTV 47s47 seconds ago Hamilton, Ontario
Rogers says there should have been an entire body in the incinerator because "bone does not disappear."

Shannon Martin ‏@ShannonMartinTV 15s15 seconds ago Hamilton, Ontario
Rogers says of the incinerator, "It was clear it had been cleaned out."

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
"There's a lot of remains that are not there.There should have been a complete body there & there wasn't. So it had obviously been cleaned."

 

[swedie]

Defence may use the fact that a lot of people had access to the hangar, the trailer and the farm and could be potential suspects. Argh!

Not with DM's fingerprints found in TB's truck, two videos and AJ's testimony...just for starter. MOO

 

[Tiggertoo]

I found most of the witnesses today, giving some of the most useful testimony yet. All those little dots are being connected.The timeline being developed seems really solid.
On another note, ...the bones. Does anyone know if it was stated, (where in tweets, if so.) that it is simply the location of where the bone(s) were burning in the incinerator that allowed them to remain intact ? I am wondering why the radius might stay intact over a skull?

Maybe it has to do with bone density also. MOO

 

[Ontario Mom]

Someone posted a link today to a funeral home's site on cremation. It was this link: http://www.elementalnw.com/9-things-cremation/

On this site it says "To fully cremate a body, you need to get the temperatures over 1400° F (760° C to those in the know)." and it also says "Cremation is fast. Fast compared to decomposition, but most people don’t know that it takes 2 – 2.5 hours to cremate a human body."

The reason this stood out to me as I read that page, was first, I was wondering if it's ever been mentioned (I think it has but I can't recall exactly) how hot (the maximum temp) the "eliminator" burns. I know I've seen the specs on it before but I can't recall where or what they are. Obviously these monsters are responsible for putting Tim in that machine but I'm wondering how long it actually had to burn, to reduce Tim to what was found in the bottom of that thing.

Goodness I hate typing all this but I'm trying to sort out in my own head how long that vile machine was burning at the hangar. It's on video being lit around 1:30 in the morning, and unless it burns at 1400 degrees, it would have taken a lot longer than 2-2.5 hours to get the job done.

 

[Kamille]

To further add to the discussion that only a small portion of TB's remains were left in the incinerator, this tweet indicates from what area most of what they recovered was found.

Feb 18 2016 11:08 AM
While examining it, Huys and Rogers numbered the tubes. The seventh tube near the wall is where most of the bone material was caught up.
Adam Carter

***note that it says "caught up" as in this was an area that didn't get cleared out because this material was caught up between the tube and the wall.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

someone graciously posted the video on day 10 thread, page 29, post #423. i went through it this morning (SEE POST 275 from today) but i know there's "step by step" in print form somewhere on the threads, just needing to locate it. can someone pls lead me in the correct direction. TIA

I have not seen an actual spreadsheet on these times in writing, just the maps as seen on that you tube video you mentioned (and thank you for finding the post with that video), which were also posted in the Hamilton Spectator at some point but they didn't post the one for the 8th for some readon. I didn't see anywhere on that you tube video a location for either of them at around 6am on either May 7 or 8th when the neighbour saw the smoke, except I think it showed DM as still being at the hangar at 5:55am on the 7th. But I'm not going to fret about it because I'm sure that this was probably done at the same time that the incinerator was returned to the farm and LE most likely have video surveillance coming up of when it was removed from the hangar. And it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that MS drove the Yukon back to the farm with the incinerator and the car seats for torching while DM stayed at the hangar to clean up the area after stripping the seats out of the truck.

MOO

 

[Gibson67]

so obviously according to Rogers testimony the remains were removed from the incinerator..so my guess is they cleaned it out and buried them on the farm somewhere..so would this explain why media was reporting that a second set of remains had been found back then in 2013? Maybe they were found and we just have not heard that yet.

Police searching the farm of the man charged with the first-degree murder of Ancaster father Tim Bosma have found more remains at the property according to a report, and Toronto police have confirmed they are investigating two additional cases connected to suspect Dellen Millard, including the death of his father.

But forensic investigators have not determined yet if the remains found on Dellen Millard’s farm in North Dumfries, Ont. are human or animal

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...-farm-where-tim-bosmas-body-discovered-report

 

[swedie]

I have not seen an actual spreadsheet on these times in writing, just the maps as seen on that you tube video you mentioned (and thank you for finding the post with that video), which were also posted in the Hamilton Spectator at some point but they didn't post the one for the 8th for some readon. I didn't see anywhere on that you tube video a location for either of them at around 6am on either May 7 or 8th when the neighbour saw the smoke, except I think it showed DM as still being at the hangar at 5:55am on the 7th. But I'm not going to fret about it because I'm sure that this was probably done at the same time that the incinerator was returned to the farm and LE most likely have video surveillance coming up of when it was removed from the hangar. And it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that MS drove the Yukon back to the farm with the incinerator and the car seats for torching while DM stayed at the hangar to clean up the area after stripping the seats out of the truck.

MOO

Or perhaps DM left his phone at the hangar when he went to the farmland to burn the seats. MOO.

 

[billandrew]

so obviously according to Rogers testimony the remains were removed from the incinerator..so my guess is they cleaned it out and buried them on the farm somewhere..so would this explain why media was reporting that a second set of remains had been found back then in 2013? Maybe they were found and we just have not heard that yet.

Police searching the farm of the man charged with the first-degree murder of Ancaster father Tim Bosma have found more remains at the property according to a report, and Toronto police have confirmed they are investigating two additional cases connected to suspect Dellen Millard, including the death of his father.

But forensic investigators have not determined yet if the remains found on Dellen Millard’s farm in North Dumfries, Ont. are human or animal

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...-farm-where-tim-bosmas-body-discovered-report

Wow, more remains were found?! I've never heard that mentioned or discussed in the news before. I suppose the source (a "report") is unofficial and LE cannot confirm it due to a publication ban? If the additional remains were concluded to be TB's, wouldn't the Crown have disclosed this in their opening statements?

 

[Bsafe]

The skull is probably at the bottom of that swamp.

Looking at google maps today I saw that the area appears to have been completely dug out and drained. Does anyone know when this happened and if it was related to the investigation?

 

[voominvava]

Sorry if this has been answered or found, but I do not recall seeing a map for May 8th, in regard to cell phone pings. Could it be the Crown hasn't brought that map forward yet as they want to show what day/morning the truck seats were burned at the farmland (aligning with the testimony of the farmer who say smoke) and where else the phones ping that day. I would imagine it was a very busy day for DM trying to cover his trial. MOO.

attached are screenshots from an evidence video for cell pings for May 8th.

 

[Kamille]

Wow, more remains were found?! I've never heard that mentioned or discussed in the news before. I suppose the source (a "report") is unofficial and LE cannot confirm it due to a publication ban? If the additional remains were concluded to be TB's, wouldn't the Crown have disclosed this in their opening statements?

That report has always been a mystery because I believe it was at the time when LE from Toronto were at the farm searching for clues about LB's disappearance. However they said they found no evidence for her. I would have thought if more remains were found for TB, it would have been part of this forensic pathologists testimony?

MOO

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[swedie]

attached are screenshots from an evidence video for cell pings for May 8th.

View attachment 89311View attachment 89312View attachment 89313View attachment 89314View attachment 89315

Great find Voominvava, thank you. So DM sent two texts to SS at 5:42 am and 5:43am. The later one pinged off a tower near the farmland according to the cell phone maps. MOO.

 

[billandrew]

Looking at google maps today I saw that the area appears to have been completely dug out and drained. Does anyone know when this happened and if it was related to the investigation?

I too noticed that dug out area on Google Maps and wonder what it is. But, I think that is a different area from the swamp. The dug out area that I see is on the west side of the farm, near where the incinerator was found, while the excavator and swamp are in the northern area of the farm. Refer to this map which was drawn by the forensic investigator as part of her testimony yesterday:

 

[Ontario Mom]

A landscaping company bought the property (2014? I think?) and I suspect they probably have done some work around there (aside from the work to the barn and the nice decor to the right of the entry)