Bosma Murder Trial 06.13.16 - Day 60 - Charge to jury - Day 2

[canadiangirl]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont · 13m13 minutes ago
Goodman reminds jury to "be careful" when assessing the accused's state of mind at time of murder. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont · 11m11 minutes ago
Now instructions are focusing specifically on abetting. So back to Decision Tree #2.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont · 1m1 minute ago
Another route to liability if someone else has committed the offence. If 2 men plan to do an armed robbery on a bank.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont · 59s60 seconds ago
During that, Man A shoots and kills a security guard. Man B can be liable if it was likely someone could die while carrying out the plan

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont · 2m2 minutes ago
During that, Man A shoots and kills a security guard. Man B can be liable if it was likely someone could die while carrying out the plan.

 

[mozzagirl]

The info and tweets are really slow right now so I may post AC's blog posts one at a time as they pop up.

 

[mozzagirl]

Goodman is calling this the "theft of truck gone badly scenario."
by Adam Carter 2:28 PM

This tree can lead to second degree murder, manslaughter, or not guilty. No first degree.
by Adam Carter 2:29 PM

 

[canadiangirl]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes · 10m10 minutes ago
"It is not disputed that 2 men arrived at the #Bosma home...an operational firearm was available to one or both accused," Goodman said.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes · 57s57 seconds ago
Now we are onto Decision Tree 3--"common unlawful purpose." This tree offers a different route to a 2nd degree murder verdict.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes · 57s58 seconds ago
The first Q in this one is whether they agreed to steal #Bosma's truck. Goodman calls this the "theft of truck gone badly" scenario.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes · 7s7 seconds ago
He stresses that a 1st degree murder verdict is not available under this scenario. Only 2nd deg. murder / manslaughter (& not guilty) #Bosma

 

[mozzagirl]

Canadiangirl, I feel like us two are the only ones around right now. Quiet day.

 

[RandomName479]

I think without actually being able to lay eyes on the decision trees, it's hard for us to follow along........

 

[mozzagirl]

Here, the murder must have ben carried out in the midst of the original plan. The original plan would have been a robbery, and that then led to the murder.
by Adam Carter 2:34 PM

 

[lauriej]

--how many "decision trees" are there?

 

[mozzagirl]

--how many "decision trees" are there?

Four.

 

[mozzagirl]

The third question in this tree is: has the Crown proven that one of the accused knew that the other would "probably" murder someone in carrying out the original agreement.
by Adam Carter 2:36 PM

It's not enough that the second part would think someone would probably get hurt, Goodman says.
by Adam Carter 2:37 PM

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

--how many "decision trees" are there?

Four.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Abitcountry]

Canadiangirl, I feel like us two are the only ones around right now. Quiet day.

116 following right now....41 members and 75 guests. They are reading and silently making notes and trying to figure which Decision Tree they would chose. You can't do that and post at the same time.....takes a little while.

 

[mozzagirl]

If the answer to that question is no, the jury then needs to ask, has the Crown proven that one person knew about the plan, and knew or ought to have known that the risk of hard to another person wasn't trivial, and was a "foreseeable consequence." If the answer is yes, they're guilty of manslaughter. If the Crown did prove the previous question to be true, they're guilty of second degree murder.
by Adam Carter 2:41 PM

 

[mozzagirl]

Wow I find these questions on the decision trees so hard to keep track of without seeing the trees.

 

[Tealgrove]

My brain is fried. My guess is that the Jury's is too. I would need to go away and sleep on all of this and start fresh in the morning. Complicated stuff and soooooo much to digest. I truly am glad I am not a Juror on this trial.

I can still say DM is 100% guilty of 1st degree. I believe that MS is as well, but he's more complicated. Unless there is more evidence (which I am sure there is), that didn't translate through texts, then I think a lot of those decision trees are going to get a work out. It won't be a slam dunk for MS I'm afraid.

 

[mozzagirl]

Goodman says he's now moving on to the positions of the parties, then his concluding instructions. Now afternoon recess. Back in 20.
by Adam Carter 2:45 PM

 

[canadiangirl]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont · 18m18 minutes ago
Now the "theft of truck, gone badly scenario," says Goodman. This is death of someone while pursuing original goal to steal truck. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont · 17m17 minutes ago
The accused had to have a plan and an agreement to steal a truck. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont · 14m14 minutes ago
Did one of the accused in that plan murder Tim #Bosma?

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont · 13m13 minutes ago
Are you satisfied that someone who is part of original agreement — but not accused under consideration — killed #Bosma?

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont · 11m11 minutes ago
Are you satisfied accused under consideration knew one of the participants in agreement knew co-accused would murder someone?

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont · 10m10 minutes ago
Not enough to for accused to think co-accused "might" murder someone. Must know they "would" murder someone.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont · 7m7 minutes ago
"Actual knowledge" necessary that carrying out plan would turn to murder, says Goodman. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont · 3m3 minutes ago
Justice Goodman is done going over decision trees. We get a break now.

 

[canadiangirl]

116 following right now....41 members and 75 guests. They are reading and silently making notes and trying to figure which Decision Tree they would chose. You can't do that and post at the same time.....takes a little while.

Absolutely, I'm going to have to reread this all later, it's going slow but I'm not absorbing much at the moment

 

[paris_paris]

My brain is fried. My guess is that the Jury's is too. I would need to go away and sleep on all of this and start fresh in the morning. Complicated stuff and soooooo much to digest. I truly am glad I am not a Juror on this trial.

I can still say DM is 100% guilty of 1st degree. I believe that MS is as well, but he's more complicated. Unless there is more evidence (which I am sure there is), that didn't translate through texts, then I think a lot of those decision trees are going to get a work out. It won't be a slam dunk for MS I'm afraid.

I'm thinking 1st degree for both. MS taking the stand sealed it for me. He placed himself away from every part of the whole event and clearly used the evidence (and only the evidence) to set up his version of events. So much so that I didn't believe anything he said. So why would I believe him when he said DM pulled the trigger?

 

[Abitcountry]

Wow.....this has become almost impossible to fully comprehend without visual aids in hand as Justice Goodman speaks.
Following on line with minimal information from tweets and no handouts.....I'm thinking we are pretty much SOL until this evening when the different media outlets start putting out something we can print out.

Brain flash.....WSers have a unique and powerful resource. It's Billandrew. I can't think of a single other person who could better organize all of the Decision Trees and choices.