Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

[Alethea Dice]

Yes, those cameras at Wilson and Trinity are just a minutes drive from Bosmas.
There was no time for any chase truck to go ahead and back again for coffee either and be seen following the test drive. Via the 403, the Oakpark turn-off is only 20 minutes or so if that's the route they took. Would that be considered close? They will likely have time stamps on the video to determine how much they could possibly accomplish over that short distance between Wilson St. and TB house.

I don't really think that anyone went to Tim Horton's. The original statement by LE sounded like the video was very close to the Bosma house - "when it left", "as it pulled away". If there was a third person, my thought would be that he/she waited along the road and pulled out to follow as they passed.

 

[Alethea Dice]

According to the Crown, DM and CN took the locked toolbox (gun inside) to a friend's around 4:00 am Friday before LE arrived later that morning to talk with DM. Smich later retrieved the toolbox, tried to sell the gun, but according to MS girlfriend, disposed of the gun in the forest. There was GSR found inside the toolbox. I don't think we know if the gun was or was not retrieved by LE.

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/tim-bosma-trial-the-crowns-opening-statement.html

Thanks, sillybilly. That's what I thought. So the speculation put forth by the OP is impossible.

 

[Juballee]

I'm not sure why some are so insistent on putting the gun in DM's hand over MS's?

One had a criminal record, one did not.
One acted suspicious, one did not.
One hid his identity, one did not.
One wore baggy clothing that would hide a gun, one did not.
One left fingerprints, one knew to cover his from the start.
One had many vehicles, one had none.
One had the money to buy a vehicle, one did not.
One owned a company, the other was unemployed.
One had lots to lose, the other had nothing to lose.


The only possible sign we have seen so far that this was even a planned crime was that apparently someone brought a gun. Is it more likely that the gun was brought by the one wearing a tee shirt and jeans and not hiding his face or hands, or the one wearing baggy jeans and a hoodie that concealed 3/4 of his face with his hands in his pockets?

I know someone is going to say:

One had had the incinerator, one did not.
One had the hanger, one did not.
One had the trailer, one did not.
One had the truck in his possession, one did not. And so on.

But these are all things that helped in covering the crime up after the fact, so far there has been no evidence that these things were purchased specifically for the commission of this crime or that they were part of the initial planning, in fact from what we have heard so far, the opposite is true. If they had planned to use the incinerator ahead of time, they would have brought it to where they needed it ahead of time, they would have given employees a day off ahead of time, DM would have covered his face and not tried to be so noticeable, they would not have brought their own phones, they would have picked a victim who didn't have witnesses present when they met him, they would have unplugged the cameras at the hanger ahead of time...the list goes on.

 

[Juballee]

The gun was in a locked box when it was given back to MS, and then he tried to sell it. Did he have the key to the lock or did he break it open?

 

[Alethea Dice]

I wonder what kind of "smiles" DM will be giving out that day? I'm still stumped by why he would get CN involved when Smitch had not been arrested yet..why was Smitch not helping do all this with DM? Had he bailed? Was he tipped off somehow that the police were on to him and was in hiding?

MS was doing what he does best - running. I find it interesting that, while his girlfriend was talking to LE, she was also still communicating with him against the no contact order and trying to set up a meeting with MWJ for some reason.

 

[Juballee]

I wonder what kind of "smiles" DM will be giving out that day? I'm still stumped by why he would get CN involved when Smitch had not been arrested yet..why was Smitch not helping do all this with DM? Had he bailed? Was he tipped off somehow that the police were on to him and was in hiding?

To me it seems like the old story of the grasshopper and the ant. The grasshopper lives minute to minute and never really plans anything and he knows the ant will pick up the pieces after, because the ant can plan ahead and the ant cares whether or not he survives (or goes to jail).

 

[ArianeEmory]

Always nice to have a friend who will help you clean up a body, I guess.

 

[MsSherlock]

MS was doing what he does best - running. I find it interesting that, while his girlfriend was talking to LE, she was also still communicating with him against the no contact order and trying to set up a meeting with MWJ for some reason.

Just to clarify, IIRC MS had not been arrested at that time so there wouldn't have been a "no contact order" between MS & MM. That would only have come into play after MS was arrested. I don't believe we've got any info in the Crowns statement to let us know exactly when they spoke with MM. MOO

 

[Tamarind]

he still owned Maple Gate too, did he not? So why was he living at the hangar?

Maybe he felt safer at the hangar. From all accounts many people had frequented Maple Gate Court and may have still had a key. If no key they may have ways to get in. Maybe he suspects his father was murdered there and felt uneasy there. There are quite a few reasons IMO.

 

[Tamarind]

Just to clarify, IIRC MS had not been arrested at that time so there wouldn't have been a "no contact order" between MS & MM. That would only have come into play after MS was arrested. I don't believe we've got any info in the Crowns statement to let us know exactly when they spoke with MM. MOO

I thought I read that she was communicating with MS in some way when he had been arrested. If she has been talking to LE, she has been talking since he was arrested IMO, or else why talk if your boyfriend appears to have not been involved (not arrested). Maybe between us we can find the links to clarify.?

 

[Tamarind]

Who knows. I doubt the Crown will call BD, but the defence may choose to. Not sure what that would accomplish though when you've got 3 other witnesses and time-stamped pics that all say May 9.

Thats true, I guess all it means is that testimonies can be questioned as being accurate or inaccurate. It also questions whether AJ knew much earlier than he said he did, about truck at hangar, before going to LE, which could bring into question why did he wait so long?

 

[MsSherlock]

I wonder what kind of "smiles" DM will be giving out that day? I'm still stumped by why he would get CN involved when Smitch had not been arrested yet..why was Smitch not helping do all this with DM? Had he bailed? Was he tipped off somehow that the police were on to him and was in hiding?

A very early report in the Toronto Sun, just days after DM was arrested, makes reference to a "thrill kill" and a close knit group.

"On one hand, this murder had the look and feel of something out of the movie Fargo, but a police source said a new TV show , The Following, may be closer to it.

The show depicts a number of people following a leader involved in nefarious activities, including homicide."

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/16/tim-bosmas-murder-may-have-been-thrill-kill-source

 

[SnooperDuper]

A very early report in the Toronto Sun, just days after DM was arrested, makes reference to a "thrill kill" and a close knit group.

"On one hand, this murder had the look and feel of something out of the movie Fargo, but a police source said a new TV show , The Following, may be closer to it.

The show depicts a number of people following a leader involved in nefarious activities, including homicide."

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/16/tim-bosmas-murder-may-have-been-thrill-kill-source

I'm interested in who the close-knit group were?

SS, MS, CN, DM...and?

 

[Tamarind]

A very early report in the Toronto Sun, just days after DM was arrested, makes reference to a "thrill kill" and a close knit group.

"On one hand, this murder had the look and feel of something out of the movie Fargo, but a police source said a new TV show , The Following, may be closer to it.

The show depicts a number of people following a leader involved in nefarious activities, including homicide."

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/16/tim-bosmas-murder-may-have-been-thrill-kill-source

I think if the truck was in the hangar being refitted and overhauled, it should lay the thrill kill suspicion to rest IMHO. Obviously the truck was wanted as a truck. It is what happened during the acquisition of the truck that is now under scrutiny IMO.

I have always wondered if money did change hands and that someone wanted that money.

 

[RandomName479]

Let's say all of this is true.....best case for DM is that he is still guilty of first degree murder bc he was there when it all went down and didn't go to the cops? Or am I missing something? Sorry....on my phone and trying to reply to a post above about MS being the one who committed the actual murder...

 

[greenthumb]

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/suspects-tattoo-discovery-of-tom-bosmas-cellphone-key-moments-in-murder-probe

Re: location of TB's phone - photo in linked article shows where phone was found on lawn @ Kemira - which appears to be inside the chain link fenced area, rather than on the driveway/roadway side of the fence. I believe it must have been tossed over the fence, rather than just fallen out of a hand/pocket/the truck, as has been speculated. MOO

 

[MsSherlock]

I'm interested in who the close-knit group were?

SS, MS, CN, DM...and?

Well, whoever they were probably started to scramble and make a lot of mistakes once they heard DP say that we would soon hear about the framing aspect. lol Do you think they looked at each other and thought that one of them or all of them were about to get thrown under the bus in an effort to make it look like DM had been framed? DM had them all involved. MOO

"He also threw out the bizarre quote that “I can’t get into the framing aspect” and that, once other suspects are in custody, “I think you’ll have a fuller picture of what’s going on.”

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/16/tim-bosmas-murder-may-have-been-thrill-kill-source

 

[SnooperDuper]

I think if the truck was in the hangar being refitted and overhauled, it should lay the thrill kill suspicion to rest IMHO. Obviously the truck was wanted as a truck. It is what happened during the acquisition of the truck that is now under scrutiny IMO.

I have always wondered if money did change hands and that someone wanted that money.

Well anyway, it is refreshing to hear those defending DM concede that DM and MS indeed went on these test drives, arrived at TB's home, took him away, and took his truck.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Well, whoever they were probably started to scramble and make a lot of mistakes once they heard DP say that we would soon hear about the framing aspect. lol Do you think they looked at each other and thought that one of them or all of them were about to get thrown under the bus in an effort to make it look like DM had been framed? DM had them all involved. MOO

"He also threw out the bizarre quote that “I can’t get into the framing aspect” and that, once other suspects are in custody, “I think you’ll have a fuller picture of what’s going on.”

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/16/tim-bosmas-murder-may-have-been-thrill-kill-source

DM seems to have expected a lot of loyalty from these people, yet shown them none.

 

[Tamarind]

Let's say all of this is true.....best case for DM is that he is still guilty of first degree murder bc he was there when it all went down and didn't go to the cops? Or am I missing something? Sorry....on my phone and trying to reply to a post above about MS being the one who committed the actual murder...

Thats the thing, was he there? If there was a vehicle following the truck,lets say it was DM's truck. Maybe at some point after deciding he wanted that truck, DM got out ( having paid TB ), got in his own vehicle and left other(s) to drop TB back home, and bring truck later. Maybe he had an errand to run or was seeing someone. There is a possibility that other(s) were left alone with TB, who may have had a pocket full of cash ( full amount or deposit). There is a time lapse of 3 1/2 hours before the alleged video at hangar.