Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #12

[Claroon]

Fair enough ..... that is one way to interpret it (that AM thought the 100k was to come from crime) ...... but I interpreted DM was talking about the Hangar business needed to bring in 100k to get out of the hole (debt)

As I said earlier 100k per month is exactly in line with what he could rent the hangar for ..... stealing bobcats and used trucks would not earn that much

Anyway , I interpreted "business" as meaning "hangar business" and some interpret it as proceeds of crime.


...................... (from the article) ........................

Another series of text messages between Millard and Michalski were shown the jury, dated April 5, 2013.

“2013 is gonna be all business. 2014/15 will be for inventions!” Millard texted his friend.

“Need to make some money first,” Michalski replied.

“About 100,000 a month, and I’ll be out of the hole,” said Millard.

On the stand, Michalski explained that Millard needed money to stay in the hangar.

“I knew he had a mortgage on the hangar he had to pay off and he wasn’t getting any money in,

Challenge accepted,” said Michalski.

http://www.lfpress.com/2016/04/13/s...-roommate-testifies-at-tim-bosma-murder-trial

.................................................................................

I also have a hard time believing that when AM said "challenge accepted" he meant partnering with DM in crime to bring in the 100k per month ..... that would be a huge leap for AM considering his crime experience thus far was as a lookout with a walkie talkie on a dark country road

Some of us feel he mismanaged funds so badly all money was both personal and business. He paid himself through the business money. IMO he probably lived off the business line of credit--taking money out for himself since he had signing authority. He had NO business income as seems to have been reported. The deals his dad had set up were cancelled by him. That is why we think he was resorting to criminal ways to try to make money to pay the business creditors.

 

[mimimic]

Let's face it, the biggest screw up was DM wearing a short sleeved shirt, and using the same burner phone for both test drives.

MOO

This is the type of accurate comment that I hate to have out there for criminals to get their eyes on "to better train for future crimes" !!ahhh

 

[mimimic]

I wonder if any of them qualify?
In Canada, all inmates, with the exception of those on disciplinary restrictions or at risk for family violence, are permitted "private family visits" of up to 72 hours' duration once every two months. Eligible visitors, who may not themselves be prison inmates, are: spouse, or common-law partner of at least six months; children; parents; foster parents; siblings; grandparents; and "persons with whom, in the opinion of the institutional head, the inmate has a close familial bond". Food is provided by the institution but paid by the inmates and visitors, who are also responsible for cleaning the unit after the visit. During a visit, staff members have regular contact with the inmate and visitors.[7]

!!!!!!!!!!!72 hours !Every two months!!! ??? WOW - Just - WOW!!!

 

[brightii]

Speaking of the DVR, did the computer guy Dubien not end up testifying?

CD has not been called by the Crown, so if he's going to testify I presume it will be for DM, IMO. Or maybe he won't be called at all, IMO.

All MOO.

 

[hopingforjustice]

I'm really expecting that MS will mount a defence and may even take the stand, IMO. Otherwise, IMO, MS will risk being convicted along with DM, who will almost certainly be, IMO.

If MS doesn't offer up more details about TB's truck theft and his murder, and the incineration of TB's body, and the gun used to kill TB, then I don't think we'll ever know what actually happened to TB or why, IMO. These details may not be needed to secure 1st degree murder convictions for both DM and MS, but IMO, they are absolutely necessary if MS is to have even the slightest hope of the jury being merciful towards him when considering their verdict about MS, IMO.

No matter what kind of defence DM would wage, it would be a useless exercise, IMO, as I think his guilt is already proved beyond any reasonable doubt. It will be interesting to see if DM will take the stand, and it wouldn't shock me to hear that he may, as I think he would take great pleasure in having a captive audience for his epic storybook version of events, IMO. I think DM fancies himself as the star of a horror show he created, wrote and directed, and he would want his name on the end credits, IMO. Of course, if DM does take the stand, he will re-cast himself as the main victim of a vicious plot against him, as DM has no concept of reality, IMO, and he has no conscience and therefore has no compassion for his true crime victim, TB, IMO.

All MOO.

I think you are right. Together with this and Swedie's thoughts in a previous post...What does he have to lose?

MS's big downfall was in my mind is he is not so much a sociopath like DM but an addict. Addicted to Booze and drugs and most especially DM. All three of those tonics would make him feel powerful and untouchable. But I don't see that as who he really is. I see him as a low life wanna be bad guy that got into more than he could stand. As morbid as it sounded in testimony, he was very concerned about his sisters wedding. But I don't think it was for himself. He didn't want anything to ruin her day. He had a dedication to his mother and sisters. As if he felt to the the "man of the family" for them. After nearly 3 years, he is clean and sober and I think he is very much remorseful of the event. He may have loved MM and is truly hurting over that loss too. Who knows. But I see emotion in this man where I see absolutely none in DM. I firmly believe that he is very much involved in the TB murder but perhaps not as 'hands on' as I had originally thought. I still need some convincing on that. No question in my minds that He needs to serve some very serious time for this crime. But testifying could bring some serious clarity, and closure to the family and to the jury in making their decision. It sure would be nice to see someone involved on the stand tell the truth and the whole truth.

 

[leafs_fan93]

I think you are right. Together with this and Swedie's thoughts in a previous post...What does he have to lose?

MS's big downfall was in my mind is he is not so much a sociopath like DM but an addict. Addicted to Booze and drugs and most especially DM. All three of those tonics would make him feel powerful and untouchable. But I don't see that as who he really is. I see him as a low life wanna be bad guy that got into more than he could stand. As morbid as it sounded in testimony, he was very concerned about his sisters wedding. But I don't think it was for himself. He didn't want anything to ruin her day. He had a dedication to his mother and sisters. As if he felt to the the "man of the family" for them. After nearly 3 years, he is clean and sober and I think he is very much remorseful of the event. He may have loved MM and is truly hurting over that loss too. Who knows. But I see emotion in this man where I see absolutely none in DM. I firmly believe that he is very much involved in the TB murder but perhaps not as 'hands on' as I had originally thought. I still need some convincing on that. No question in my minds that He needs to serve some very serious time for this crime. But testifying could bring some serious closure to the family and to the jury in making their decision. It sure would be nice to see someone involved on the stand tell the truth and the whole truth.

I agree 100% with this post. Most importantly, I think MS can be rehabilitated, whereas DM can not. Other differences I've seen between the two, MS kept those closest to him out of it, while DM drew those closest to him into the situation. MS seemed affected by what transpired, while DM continued on as if nothing happened. MS has also shown emotion in court, while DM jokes, laughs and waves like he's the queen of England.

While I think MS was clearly involved, and most likely knew what was going to go down(though I'm still not certain it's been proven without reasonable doubt) he's not on the level DM is. I think if he can get on the stand, tell the truth, and come across as credible, he can both give the Bosmas closure, knowing what really happened, and may give himself a shot at parole, and one day getting out of jail. All MOO

 

[Errrr]

He would subject himself to crown cross examination and to DM's defence team. He would need to be ready for at least 7 days of cross examination. This is based on how long John Rosen questioned KH.

I never say never, but IMO very unlikely.

If he told the truth and fried everyone who needed to be fried, including himself, I don't think he would have anything to fear from the crown. Listening for seven days what a rich and generous, sexy guy DM is would be hard to bear, I agree.

 

[Errrr]

I think you are right. Together with this and Swedie's thoughts in a previous post...What does he have to lose?

MS's big downfall was in my mind is he is not so much a sociopath like DM but an addict. Addicted to Booze and drugs and most especially DM. All three of those tonics would make him feel powerful and untouchable. But I don't see that as who he really is. I see him as a low life wanna be bad guy that got into more than he could stand. As morbid as it sounded in testimony, he was very concerned about his sisters wedding. But I don't think it was for himself. He didn't want anything to ruin her day. He had a dedication to his mother and sisters. As if he felt to the the "man of the family" for them. After nearly 3 years, he is clean and sober and I think he is very much remorseful of the event. He may have loved MM and is truly hurting over that loss too. Who knows. But I see emotion in this man where I see absolutely none in DM. I firmly believe that he is very much involved in the TB murder but perhaps not as 'hands on' as I had originally thought. I still need some convincing on that. No question in my minds that He needs to serve some very serious time for this crime. But testifying could bring some serious clarity, and closure to the family and to the jury in making their decision. It sure would be nice to see someone involved on the stand tell the truth and the whole truth.

If he were truly remorseful, I don't know how he could put the Bosmas through this!

 

[CJPRINCESS]

CD has not been called by the Crown, so if he's going to testify I presume it will be for DM, IMO. Or maybe he won't be called at all, IMO.

All MOO.

My memory is failing me on the "who" but someone was at the trial when LW_1 testified. He was sitting at a table in cafeteria when he and his GF/wife overheard conversation. The lady asked the guy she was with "is that SB" and GF/wife turned around and said "yes, that is SB" they snickered or something (sorry I do not remeber the whole post word for word) When they went back in to the courtroom, LW_1 was called in and GF/wife said "isn't that the lady from cafeteria". This WS'er posted had the impression that MR. Charlie may not be called, due to maybe being hostile.

Hopefully the the WS'er that originally posted this, see's this and corrects me if I'm wrong or add what I forgot.

 

[swedie]

There has to be some reason the hoses and running of water for ten hours came into evidence. After the front seats were taken out of the TB's truck (May 7th), did DM take them to Riverside and try and wash them? If that was the case, he washed the seats in the area where he told JV to run the water for hours to wash away blood evidence. Could it be TB was shot when they stopped near the Bobcat dealership and they put him in the bed of his truck, so he did not lose a lot of blood on the truck seat, then DM thinking he could wash the seat?

Perhaps this is where the bucket/can and laundry detergent seen in the back area of the Yukon came into play. Could this also explain the questioning of JV on the stand about the one bathroom at Riverside (which was vacant) and about DM having keys? DM did not have a water hose for washing the seat, perhaps the outside water was shut off and he had no key/no access, didn't know where the main turn on was inside the building to turn the water on, therefore he used the vacant apartment bathroom to fill the bucket with water to wash the seats with. If this was the case, DM was not able to remove TB's blood from the seat so he took them out to the farm to burn them instead. If not the seats, what could DM have washed at Riverside on the lawn where water ran for hours?

It was Friday, May 9th, sometime in the morning when DM told JV to run the water. So when could DM have tried to wash the seats or something on the lawn at Riverside? Obviously prior to the morning of May 9th.
- May 8th, DM's phone pinged in Etobicoke at 2:59am. Was DM travelling to the farmland with TB's truck seats after failed attempt of washing blood stains from them?
- 5:42am DM's cell phone pinged in Milton. (DM had also text SS at 5:42am asking him where the power washer was.)
- Then around 6:00am the farmer saw a plume of smoke at the farmland.
- On May 9th, DM's cell phone pinged near the farm land at 5:49pm and MS's ping there also at 4:47pm. Were they picking up what was left of the burnt seats?
- At 6:56pm DM's red Dodge arrived at hangar according to video surveillance. DM and MS load TB's truck and seat frames put into trailer?
- At 9:06pm MS's cell phone pings in Oakville, 9:38pm DM's cell phone pings in Oakville. DM drove MS home?
- 9:53pm DM sends CN a text saying he is at her place to pick her up. DM and CN go to Kleinberg. ALL MOO.

The jury also heard again about hoses that were found at a property Millard owned at Riverside Drive in Toronto. Court has heard that the hoses were left running in the back yard for 10 hours at Millard's behest.

The Crown has not presented any theory as to why that was done, or how it relates to the case. Millard's legal team has said Millard wanted to build a deck at the back of the property, and this was done to see how the water would "pond" in the area.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...llen-millard-s-wealth-again-a-focus-1.3512310

 

[Arnie M]

I think you are right. Together with this and Swedie's thoughts in a previous post...What does he have to lose?

MS's big downfall was in my mind is he is not so much a sociopath like DM but an addict. Addicted to Booze and drugs and most especially DM. All three of those tonics would make him feel powerful and untouchable. But I don't see that as who he really is. I see him as a low life wanna be bad guy that got into more than he could stand. As morbid as it sounded in testimony, he was very concerned about his sisters wedding. But I don't think it was for himself. He didn't want anything to ruin her day. He had a dedication to his mother and sisters. As if he felt to the the "man of the family" for them. After nearly 3 years, he is clean and sober and I think he is very much remorseful of the event. He may have loved MM and is truly hurting over that loss too. Who knows. But I see emotion in this man where I see absolutely none in DM. I firmly believe that he is very much involved in the TB murder but perhaps not as 'hands on' as I had originally thought. I still need some convincing on that. No question in my minds that He needs to serve some very serious time for this crime. But testifying could bring some serious clarity, and closure to the family and to the jury in making their decision. It sure would be nice to see someone involved on the stand tell the truth and the whole truth.

You are most likely correct , thank you , and most normal people will agree with you 100% .... but I must warn you .... I am NOT normal .... Haaaaa !!

Here is my slant , and I have said it from the beginning .... regardless of who actually pulled the trigger , if we could to peer deep into the hearts and souls of both those men , I think we would find the evil originated from deep within MS .... it radiated from there and then DM , the psychopath-narcissist latched on to it , became a willing partner and enabler with benefits for himself (another servant) (a free truck)

I dont have much to go on , just instincts , but some things are obvious about MS ... his heart is set on the violent rap genre with all the slaughter and killing and blood and guts and gore and hatred .... and he even chose SAY10 as his moniker .... if that does not radiate evil , then I dont know what does. (I think his demeanor in court is sullen anger - not remorse)

He even composed some lyrics for his songs that used the words anger and danger and .380 (his gun) ..... I think he saw DM as his enabler for his "rap career" .... and I think DM saw MS as someone he could manipulate for his own purposes by holding out a carrot to MS ..... "promises" to set him up in a pad at Riverside , and help him establish his rap career , things like that

Even his long time buddy testified ..............

..... we heard more cross examination of one of Mark Smich’s close friends from 2013, Brendan Daly and we heard that Daly was intimidated by Smich, an aspiring rap star who made him uncomfortable with violent conversations.

Brendan Daly told the court his friend Mark Smich was always aggravated and had a mean and violent streak in him. The two were Oakville neighbors who hung out every day to smoke weed and drink beer. Daly said he got nervous when Smich started talking about violent things. The jury heard Smich’s ipad was full of rap lyrics talking about guns like, “my 380 is no stranger when I’m angered you’re in danger.” The crown believes Tim Bosma was killed by a Walther 380 pistol.

I dont see that embedded evil in DM , he is simply an immature delusional irresponsible narcissistic psychopath who has done evil things (I dont think his demeanor in court is a lack of remorse as much as it is a continuation of his delusion) (even his letters confirm that)

By saying all that I am now almost forced to lay much of the blame on MS for the LB murder ..... which now puts me in a very tight corner where I almost have to include Wayne's death in there as well .

And I am able to do that on the very slenderest of information .... DM has been charged with the illegal purchase of the gun that killed WM .... and indeed I think DM did buy the gun .... but it was for Mark .... people say it is a mystery where Mark's .380 gun is .... I dont think it is a mystery .... I think Police have had "Mark's gun" ever since they investigated the "suicide" of WM .... and for all we know "Mark's gun" could have been used on LB a few months earlier.

 

[swedie]

There has to be some reason the hoses and running of water for ten hours came into evidence. After the front seats were taken out of the TB's truck (May 7th), did DM take them to Riverside and try and wash them? If that was the case, he washed the seats in the area where he told JV to run the water for hours to wash away blood evidence. Could it be TB was shot when they stopped near the Bobcat dealership and they put him in the bed of his truck, so he did not lose a lot of blood on the truck seat, then DM thinking he could wash the seat?

Perhaps this is where the bucket/can and laundry detergent seen in the back area of the Yukon came into play. Could this also explain the questioning of JV on the stand about the one bathroom at Riverside (which was vacant) and about DM having keys? DM did not have a water hose for washing the seat, perhaps the outside water was shut off and he had no key/no access, didn't know where the main turn on was inside the building to turn the water on, therefore he used the vacant apartment bathroom to fill the bucket with water to wash the seats with. If this was the case, DM was not able to remove TB's blood from the seat so he took them out to the farm to burn them instead. If not the seats, what could DM have washed at Riverside on the lawn where water ran for hours?

It was Friday, May 9th, sometime in the morning when DM told JV to run the water. So when could DM have tried to wash the seats or something on the lawn at Riverside? Obviously prior to the morning of May 9th.
- May 8th, DM's phone pinged in Etobicoke at 2:59am. Was DM travelling to the farmland with TB's truck seats after failed attempt of washing blood stains from them?
- 5:42am DM's cell phone pinged in Milton. (DM had also text SS at 5:42am asking him where the power washer was.)
- Then around 6:00am the farmer saw a plume of smoke at the farmland.
- On May 9th, DM's cell phone pinged near the farm land at 5:49pm and MS's ping there also at 4:47pm. Were they picking up what was left of the burnt seats?
- At 6:56pm DM's red Dodge arrived at hangar according to video surveillance. DM and MS load TB's truck and seat frames put into trailer?
- At 9:06pm MS's cell phone pings in Oakville, 9:38pm DM's cell phone pings in Oakville. DM drove MS home?
- 9:53pm DM sends CN a text saying he is at her place to pick her up. DM and CN go to Kleinberg. ALL MOO.

The jury also heard again about hoses that were found at a property Millard owned at Riverside Drive in Toronto. Court has heard that the hoses were left running in the back yard for 10 hours at Millard's behest.

The Crown has not presented any theory as to why that was done, or how it relates to the case. Millard's legal team has said Millard wanted to build a deck at the back of the property, and this was done to see how the water would "pond" in the area.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...llen-millard-s-wealth-again-a-focus-1.3512310

These are the tweets from AC, SC and MH during JV's testimony regarding keys and the bathroom. HTH.

Adam Carter 216 PM
Another text from Millard reads "bring the key to #2" -- in relation to an apartment in a property he owned. He says Millard indicated he'd be living there.

Adam Carter 2:17 PM
The bathroom in that unit was being renovated, but the bath and shower were operational, he says.

Adam Carter 2:19 PM
This apartment is at Riverside Drive. He says Millard and Noudga wanted to see how the renovation was progressing. "They took a look at the apartment and then they left."

Adam Carter 2:20 PM
Villata says they left, and he locked it. He says he had one key, but there were others, and maybe Millard had one.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 37s38 seconds ago
Apt. 2 at that house owned by Millard was being renovated for him to live in. Millard texts Javier for key to #2. Bath and shower in there.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 7s7 seconds ago
Javier does not remember giving him the key that night. But he showed them the apartment so he could see renos. Javier kept key.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 17s18 seconds ago
Inside apartment for 15-20 minutes. Asked if they went in bathroom, but he doesn't remember. They left, he locked apt. More than one key.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 30s30 seconds ago
Javier says Millard and his father made copies of all keys to cars, homes etc. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 33s33 seconds ago
Sunday May 5, Javier can't remember if he worked. No face to face contact with Millard. Javier still has white van. Was in it that day.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 33s34 seconds ago
3 or 4 units were being rented. Millard was going to live in unit 2 (the one they were reno'ing). #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 25s25 seconds ago
Millard arrived and asked V to bring the key to that unit. He and Christina wanted to check on renos. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 10s10 seconds ago
He met him outside, opened the door to get in. He kept the key. They took a look inside, 15/20mins, then they left. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 44s45 seconds ago
Crown asks if they went in the bathroom. V doesn't remember. After they left, he locked the door. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 23s23 seconds ago
Crown asks how many keys there were. He says he had one, and that the Millards had copies of all their keys. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 16s16 seconds ago
When they left that night V is left with the white van, Millard takes back the Yukon #Bosma

 

[Inspector_North]

I agree 100% with this post. Most importantly, I think MS can be rehabilitated, whereas DM can not. Other differences I've seen between the two, MS kept those closest to him out of it, while DM drew those closest to him into the situation. MS seemed affected by what transpired, while DM continued on as if nothing happened. MS has also shown emotion in court, while DM jokes, laughs and waves like he's the queen of England.

While I think MS was clearly involved, and most likely knew what was going to go down(though I'm still not certain it's been proven without reasonable doubt) he's not on the level DM is. I think if he can get on the stand, tell the truth, and come across as credible, he can both give the Bosmas closure, knowing what really happened, and may give himself a shot at parole, and one day getting out of jail. All MOO

Until his next murder trial. Because they were both charged with multiple murders, I am afraid such a testimony is remote to say the least. DM spelled out what will get him charged with murder, and that is ditto for MS.

"“If someone dies accidently, and then the body is disposed of, that’s not murder. If someone dies accidently during a robbery, that’s murder,” he writes."

and

"“Even planning a robbery, which someone else goes out and commits, results in a murder conviction, for the at home planner, if a death occurs, even an accidental death,” he writes."

Both are guilty of murder according to DM's criteria. Which I am sure he has gone over many times with his legal team. I am not ready to let either off murder for planning a robbery and taking along a loaded gun. Of course accidents will happen.

MOO

 

[Inspector_North]

Speaking of the DVR, did the computer guy Dubien not end up testifying?

Besides being LW_1's partner and being the one that told RB about the Pet business, I believe the only reason CD was of interest was his communication with DM on the 9th or 10th. We have seen texts and one was to ask DM for internet at Riverside for a surveillance system he was installing. We also know he asked DM if he figured out how to erase files. Which I suspect were the DVR files, and DM didn't figure it out but had CN stash it.

MOO

 

[mozzagirl]

I too think MS really doesn't have much more to lose if he took the stand but there may be huge risks for him too. The big risk that I can think of is there may be evidence or behaviour patterns of the accused deemed inadmissible that if MS or DM takes the stand could be admissible. I don't know if that is possible but that was my first thought. IMO, the Crown would have extra evidence ready if either of the two accused take the stand. Just like Dungey brought up abuse with MM when she was on the stand, I am positive the Crown has heavily prepared just incase.

MOO.

 

[THXGuru]

. Most importantly, I think MS can be rehabilitated, whereas DM can not.

MS cannot be rehabilitated. He has a criminal record past and has no hope of a future outside prison. Despite his criminal record, he still chose to hang out with criminals and then take part in more crime.

 

[dar107]

I wonder if any of them qualify?
In Canada, all inmates, with the exception of those on disciplinary restrictions or at risk for family violence, are permitted "private family visits" of up to 72 hours' duration once every two months

I'm sure this only applies to federal penitentiaries which is where you go to serve a sentence of 2 years +. There is no such thing for provincial jails where you wait your trial or spend time for sentences under 2 years. Crazy how things work but from what I've heard from many is that the federal time is easier to do then provincial time as there is actual more freedom inside such as open visits and weekend visits. More comforts available such as being able to have your own TV, video games your own attire etc.

I have much personal experience with a family member who has spent much of their lives in jail in both provincial and pen time. I have never seen open visiting rooms in a provincial jail. Always glass as a standard although I'm sure for inmates waiting a long time to go to trial thete may exceptions to allow some human contact. Even then you would be subject to search and not just be able to walk in with a purse full of letters.

 

[THXGuru]

I
I think it's about time that MB starts to take some responsibility here. Is this fair to the Bosma family? How about MS receiving a fair trial? MB was willing to assist her son to get a friend to change his testimony; so he could get off- blame it all on MS? These people don't care about anyone but the person in the mirror and spending WM's moola. Shame on them. CN? Insulting our intelligence saying she didn't know that she wasn't suppose to be communicating with DM. They're doing nothing but making a mockery out of this trial and the sickening part is they don't care who they implicate. Just one big joke to them. I'm glad LE haven't indicated how MB was coming into possession of the letters. She deserves to have centre stage on this one. Besides- maybe it's time that she experience the ramifications of her sons actions, even if it's just a bit of shame. I would imagine by the time CN is finished on the stand, MB's name will be mentioned a few more times. MOO

Are you surprised over any of this? All the people involved were taking part in criminal activity and hanging out with the wrong crowd.

 

[JuneBug67]

So far I am seeing most people believe the "I f*&*'d up" comment to believe that MS is saying he shot TB. What if it just means something like that he had certain jobs to do within this mission to ensure its success and he failed on something he was supposed to do. And that failure resulted in their master plan going awry. Maybe they didn't plan to kill TB. Maybe they were going to leave him stranded somewhere and MS got stuck in red lights or made a wrong turn and got lost and that left DM alone with "no choice" but to kill TB. Or that he was supposed to do the killing and missed or his gun jammed and that forced DM to do it., All I am just saying that I don't believe that MS stating that he "f&*&'d up" necessarily means that he did the killing. It could mean any number of things. They are both still guilty in my mind either way..

I think it's possible that the f'ed up comment relates to a day before Tim's murder when he backed out of completing the theft of the first truck. That is what got them caught effectively because they left a witness who described DM's tattoo (and ultimately MS's mugshot). It's less likely that it relates to the act of shooting/murder because evidence suggests that was planned. It's possible that it relates to how or where TB was shot because something about those details led specifically to the predicament they were in at that point, perhaps the delay in getting the truck out of the hangar and in for painting. But they took no pains to hide it from hangar staff and visitors when it could have been stashed in the trailer, so perhaps that wasn't anticipated as a concern anyway.

 

[dar107]

I think it's about time that MB starts to take some responsibility here. Is this fair to the Bosma family? How about MS receiving a fair trial? MB was willing to assist her son to get a friend to change his testimony; so he could get off- blame it all on MS? These people don't care about anyone but the person in the mirror and spending WM's moola. Shame on them. CN? Insulting our intelligence saying she didn't know that she wasn't suppose to be communicating with DM. They're doing nothing but making a mockery out of this trial and the sickening part is they don't care who they implicate. Just one big joke to them. I'm glad LE haven't indicated how MB was coming into possession of the letters. She deserves to have centre stage on this one. Besides- maybe it's time that she experience the ramifications of her sons actions, even if it's just a bit of shame. I would imagine by the time CN is finished on the stand, MB's name will be mentioned a few more times. MOO

Perhaps she convinced herself to drink DM'S kool-aid being his mother. A mother bear protects her cub at all costs. Her and CAN surely knew what was in that trailer and what was going down..why else would they think the media was coming.

Regardless MB was not charged that we are aware of. However I am quite confident that she has been plenty shamed and will continue to live with the consequences of her sons actions until the end of her days. I think that's pretty much a given. So for those who want her to suffer.... I have no doubt she is.