Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #17 [06.03.16 to 06.09.16]

[Dutchman]

Couple of pieces, seem bothersome, MS testified that DM needed a truck for Mexico, "among other things" I believe we're his words. The white van had been modified? Think in my opinion there were far more sinister missions to come. Nobody buys an incinerator to use one time.( Oh another, timbit that came out. "They used it on a deer". ) where did that fact come from. I believe it was in the crown's closing. Hoses... Let's not start that one. Lol. So many unanswered questions. Was hoping that once all the evidence was in, we would know all.

 

[JuneBug67]

Couple of pieces, seem bothersome, MS testified that DM needed a truck for Mexico, "among other things" I believe we're his words. The white van had been modified? Think in my opinion there were far more sinister missions to come. Nobody buys an incinerator to use one time.( Oh another, timbit that came out. "They used it on a deer". ) where did that fact come from. I believe it was in the crown's closing. Hoses... Let's not start that one. Lol. So many unanswered questions. Was hoping that once all the evidence was in, we would know all.

That fact came from a text from DM to SS telling him it was used it on a deer at the farm - the Crown did not say "they", but "he". And, you know you're Canadian when you call a tidbit a timbit...

 

[hellkat2]

Excellent Post
What an eye opener....well worth the read.
This is my first go at following a trial in depth and I certainly did not comprehend how thorough the Judge's charge to the jury could be. This article dispells any false notions I had and clarifies the expression 'decision treeI I........no wonder Judge Goodman has consulted with the lawyers and taken a week to prepare.......and no wonder the jury was told that it was not over yet !!
Thanks.

If ever there was a reason to bring back capital punishment what happened to Tori Stafford would be it as well as the cold blooded murder of Tim Bosma.

 

[JuneBug67]

Does anybody remember if there was testimony about how long the accused were at the Bosma's? Surely somebody was asked that? I had a vague recollection that Smich was asked and said 10 minutes, but I can't find that, so may be imagining things..

 

[hellkat2]

I agree 100 percent..MS is just as guilty as he knew exactly what happened and did everything possible NOT TO Reveal what he knew...mAY THEY BOTH GET THE max SENTENCE ..imo IT IS A hORROR WHAT WAS done to Tim Bosma ...as his wife said " my husband was killed for a dam TRUCK!" I believe it was totally insane .Remember it could have been anyone of us if we placed an Ad to sell a RAM Diesel Truck...JMHO ...Plus IMO they both extremely dangerous offenders...Take them to Jail for the rest of their LIVES...again JMHO ..I believe Ont. will be a lot safer...again JMHO...Robynhood.

Agreed. And also an angel faced innocent child that two evil individuals murdered in a manner that most cannot fathom. May her killers burn in hell. May they be living in hell on earth until then. God Bless Tori and her family. She is not and will not ever be forgotten.

 

[Typhoo1961]

Ugh. I had forgotten about those things. The worst for me was when he was trying to get his mother to sell her house to finance his own needs with the promise of building her a house on the farm. If anybody is ever tempted to forget just how callous and manipulative he can be, remember that.

I would have loved to have heard the conversation regarding that between DM and his mother.

 

[Typhoo1961]

If ever there was a reason to bring back capital punishment what happened to Tori Stafford would be it as well as the cold blooded murder of Tim Bosma.

Kristen French, Leslie Mahaffy, etc, etc, etc.

 

[Sillybilly]

You are not looking at the whole picture. Yes Millard wanted the truck and yes it was his mission, but think back to this one text, and I'm paraphrasing here...

"First things first, I need a truck and you need a base"

To me that text suggest that Millard is offering to take the material possessions like the truck in exchange for necessities like housing (riverside condo), transportation (Caddy) as well as providing cigarettes, booze and food to Smich. If Millard isn't a partner, why is he offering these things to Smich?


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I have looked at the whole picture and it just might play differently. How does your interpretation of that text present a "whole picture" as it relates to premeditation of murder?

"First I need a truck (my priority) and you need a base (your priority, a place to live). How does this equate to an agreement that DM will exchange a truck for accommodation? It doesn't specify you/I will steal a truck and in exchange I will give you blah blah. It is a simple statement of a truck is my priority and your priority is accommodation. IMO, there is no wording that indicates an exchange.

 

[hellkat2]

- DM wanted/needed a diesel truck for Baja and I believe he decided he was getting that truck come hell or high water
- DM asked AM who "he" should steal the truck from (not "we"). IMO, that is an indication DM was the planner for the mission and MS was not included in all aspects of that plan
- No evidence exists in either the field or the Yukon to indicate that Tim was killed there
- DM initiated the fake text when, if MS was privy to a planned murder, there was no need for MS to leave the truck when they both could have continued with TB in the truck without raising TB's suspicion. I believe the fake text was to ensure that MS was not in the truck so that nothing would go wrong with DM's plan. Otherwise why the fake text at all? If it was both DM and MS planning to kill TB, I see no need for the fake text. They could have just continued the test drive without raising TB's suspicion and both be present for the killing someplace else. IMO the fake text was DM's way of getting MS out of the truck early in the game so that he was alone to carry out his plan.
- Window of opportunity (the total length of time DM was driving the truck vs the length of time MS was in the truck)
- DM's letters to CN solidified for me the depths of his deviousness and attempts to perfect and twist a situation

Do I believe it's possible they both carried out the murder? Possible yes, but I have to give consideration to MS's testimony (whether 100% truthful or not) and give the benefit of the doubt. His testimony is evidence, and as for his story/testimony being geared to evidence presented throughout trial, it is his trial and it is the evidence that he has to address or refute the best way he can. I found his 'story' plausible and for that reason, believe it was a wise move to have him take the stand.

You do not have to choose to believe the testimony of liars or give them the benefit of the doubt. I am confused? I believe it is quite evident that MS had ties with organized crime since he was in highschool. The gun dealer certainly must have ties to organized crime. MS must have got a raise for introducing DM to his bosses given his wealth, the airport hangar, helicopter, money and influence to his organized crime bosses. I do not understand why this was not focused on further. If it had been, the first degree murder would not even be up for discussion as they committed murder in the carrying out of their car thieving duties assigned to them via the organized crime network who own them. In my opinion this angle could have been pursued further by LE but has not as yet.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

I have looked at the whole picture and it just might play differently. How does your interpretation of that text present a "whole picture" as it relates to premeditation of murder?

"First I need a truck (my priority) and you need a base (your priority, a place to live). How does this equate to an agreement that DM will exchange a truck for accommodation? It doesn't specify you/I will steal a truck and in exchange I will give you blah blah. It is a simple statement of a truck is my priority and your priority is accommodation. IMO, there is no wording that indicates an exchange.

They were clearly working together on missions and this indicates a bigger payoff for Smich for bigger missions:
Millard text to Smich:
Move towards a license. Don't put it down. This past week I've seen so many opportunities for...
... little jobs that would balance out the flow of cash cigarettes and booze, so that big missions...
... you could get way bigger payoffs

 

[hellkat2]

Why did Millard offer SS a house on his farm? Why did Millard offer Javier a construction business? Why did Millard offer any of these people anything he did? Did he ever follow through?

Why was MS and DM telling each other ...I love you???

 

[Inspector_North]

Why was MS and DM telling each other ...I love you???

Bonding talk among bro's?

Don't really know, but they texted it. It must have shown for MM to also make the comment that MS loved DM. Although you would never know that is what it was like three years ago by MS's story.

MOO

 

[hellkat2]

Kristen French, Leslie Mahaffy, etc, etc, etc.

It is my wish that capital punishment return to canada. We have DNA now and when there is absolutely no doubt like in the cases of the victims mentioned then I believe there is a place for it. It would give closure to the families of the victims and put an end to the evil that walks amongst us. These individuals make their mark in the prison system in a very negative way.

 

[hellkat2]

Bonding talk among bro's?

Don't really know, but they texted it. It must have shown for MM to also make the comment that MS loved DM. Although you would never know that is what it was like three years ago by MS's story.

MOO

Between the love texting and the man purses and wanting to build houses together on the farm....it is twisted.

 

[Inspector_North]

It is my wish that capital punishment return to canada. We have DNA now and when there is absolutely no doubt like in the cases of the victims mentioned then I believe there is a place for it. It would give closure to the families of the victims and put an end to the evil that walks among us. These individuals make their mark in the prison system in a very negative way.

If we would just enforce laws already on the table that may help crime before it gets to murder. The GTA is on a record pace for murders this year, why? Because there are record number of hand guns being carried due to the hand slap they get for being caught carrying one.

When the government tried to bring in the long gun registry, they threatened up to 5 years in prison for not registering. However handguns have been restricted for many decades. How many of the deaths this year in the GTA are due to long guns?

Illegal hand gun possession should be a mandatory prison sentence. After that has rolled out we can take a look at the death penalty. As for DNA, it's not helping in this case to determine who should get the death penalty.

MOO

 

[hellkat2]

If we would just enforce laws already on the table that may help crime before it gets to murder. The GTA is on a record pace for murders this year, why? Because there are record number of hand guns being carried due to the hand slap they get for being caught carrying one.

When the government tried to bring in the long gun registry, they threatened up to 5 years in prison for not registering. However handguns have been restricted for many decades. How many of the deaths this year in the GTA are due to long guns?

Illegal hand gun possession should be a mandatory prison sentence. After that has rolled out we can take a look at the death penalty. As for DNA, it's not helping in this case to determine who should get the death penalty.

MOO

No handguns involved with Tori Stafford, Kristin French, Lesley Mahaffey.

 

[JuneBug67]

I find the timeline around the Bosma House/Super Sucker very confounding. If you use the only truly known and fixed comparison points - the Super Sucker against itself - you either accept the time between the Yukon arriving in the area and Tim's truck being first captured on camera as a span of either ~19 minutes or ~34 minutes. With an unknown time for reconnaissance to park in/near the field, and an unknown time spent driving after the turn on to Book before returning to Trinity, and even perhaps an unknown time at the Bosma's, just about every scenario fits.

 

[Inspector_North]

No handguns involved with Tori Stafford, Kristin French, Lesley Mahaffey.

Correct. But my suggestion was about doing things to reduce the number we would have to murder .... for murdering.

There will always be mental health issues and banning hammers, knives and bare hands is not realistic. But for those that get their back in a corner, carrying a hand gun forces them to come out shooting. It's a start.

I wonder if DM or MS would of thought twice about a hand gun if they knew just getting caught with one would get them jail time?

MOO

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

It is my wish that capital punishment return to canada. We have DNA now and when there is absolutely no doubt like in the cases of the victims mentioned then I believe there is a place for it. It would give closure to the families of the victims and put an end to the evil that walks amongst us. These individuals make their mark in the prison system in a very negative way.

I think I understand why you feel the way you do, but I respectfully disagree with you regarding the death penalty.

There have been hundreds and hundreds of exonerations in the last couple of decades -- so many innocent lives devastated and ruined, spending decades in prison for crimes they did not commit. A great many of those exonerated were on death row in the U.S., erroneously convicted of capital punishment.

Human beings will always make mistakes, no matter how accurate certain scientific forensic methods become, as long as human beings are creating those methods, and as long as the results are interpreted by human beings, there is good chance that mistakes will be made. There is also the possibility of corruption that deserves consideration, as well as misconduct.

Assurance of fallibility exists within the human race. Of that we can be certain. Nothing involving human beings is foolproof. Because of this, I personally would never support the death penalty's return in Canada. I believe it should be abolished everywhere on earth.

As always, MHO


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[CJPRINCESS]

Does anybody remember if there was testimony about how long the accused were at the Bosma's? Surely somebody was asked that? I had a vague recollection that Smich was asked and said 10 minutes, but I can't find that, so may be imagining things..

MS couldn't say, didn't remember. I can't remember but it wasn't very long. TB pulled truck out of garage, quick walk about and they left.