Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #5

[paris_paris]

I am also interested in knowing if anyone can get a read on the motorcycle company that has produced the paper where the skull is drawn. Ditto for the name on the program behind it. It is yellow script and is upside down. There is also a second pack of rolling papers that is open and has something written on the pack in orange highlighter. MS doesn't seem to have a motorcycle but may have been at a shop that handed these pads of paper out. I know that a stolen motorcycle was found at the hangar. My apologies if this has been discussed

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The yellow type says Grand Opening.

Just above the can of Axe... is that dental floss?

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Just hitting on the drugs part. I'm by NO means an expert nor do I do drugs.
I know drugs as Cocaine and MDMA are being discussed due to a girls news paper report?? Correct??

Just have to say, I'm sure both if not all parties involved were drug tested. Cocaine would have shown on a drug test on DM being 4 days after the murder. I'm not sure what the half life is but I'm sure it's more then 4 days. Some drugs can be found in a drug/tox screen 1 month after use. I know a few people that were heavily addicted to cocaine and they didn't get violent and want to harm or kill anyone. The one person I know that did get violent, he was also abusing herroin and MDVP (bath salts) he is in jail an placed on the dangerous offenders.

However, I'm wondering if bath salts may be have been an issue. It's something that doesn't show on drug/tox screens (well not in the commonly tested for drugs. It's a specific test to test for it) but severely ulters ones mind. The girl mentioned MDMA, I wonder if she confused it with MDPV at the parties.
It's sounds like a horrible drug!!

Bath salts
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22682791

 

[billandrew]

I am also interested in knowing if anyone can get a read on the motorcycle company that has produced the paper where the skull is drawn. Ditto for the name on the program behind it. It is yellow script and is upside down. There is also a second pack of rolling papers that is open and has something written on the pack in orange highlighter. MS doesn't seem to have a motorcycle but may have been at a shop that handed these pads of paper out. I know that a stolen motorcycle was found at the hangar. My apologies if this has been discussed

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Based on the phone number, the motorcycle company is Stunners Cycles in Oakville. The business is closed down.

 

[dar107]

Any links to MSM for results on this today?

Been looking and have seen nothing.

Do we know if Millard will be there personally for today's hearing? And would the Publication Ban include even the out come of it? I was reading earlier that the two Direct Inditements are precedent setting, I guess 3 of them would really be for sure!

 

[RandomName479]

Just hitting on the drugs part. I'm by NO means an expert nor do I do drugs.
I know drugs as Cocaine and MDMA are being discussed due to a girls news paper report?? Correct??

Just have to say, I'm sure both if not all parties involved were drug tested. Cocaine would have shown on a drug test on DM being 4 days after the murder. I'm not sure what the half life is but I'm sure it's more then 4 days. Some drugs can be found in a drug/tox screen 1 month after use. I know a few people that were heavily addicted to cocaine and they didn't get violent and want to harm or kill anyone. The one person I know that did get violent, he was also abusing herroin and MDVP (bath salts) he is in jail an placed on the dangerous offenders.

However, I'm wondering if bath salts may be have been an issue. It's something that doesn't show on drug/tox screens (well not in the commonly tested for drugs. It's a specific test to test for it) but severely ulters ones mind. The girl mentioned MDMA, I wonder if she confused it with MDPV at the parties.
It's sounds like a horrible drug!!

Bath salts
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22682791

cocaine half life is 75 minutes........5x75=375 min (between 6 and 7 hours) to be eliminated from blood stream

metabolites can be found in system for 2-4 days......

I would link to Lexicomp, but it's a paid service and won't let me.....

While is true that some drugs/metabolites can be detected much longer, cocaine isn't one of them.
ETA

The apparent half-life for cocaine is short, approximately 0.8 ± 0.2 hours, while the half-life of benzoylecgonine is 6 hours.

from http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/research/job185drugs/cocain.htm

Different numbers from different sources....but bottom line is cocaine has a relatively short half life.

 

[andreww]

Just hitting on the drugs part. I'm by NO means an expert nor do I do drugs.
I know drugs as Cocaine and MDMA are being discussed due to a girls news paper report?? Correct??

Just have to say, I'm sure both if not all parties involved were drug tested. Cocaine would have shown on a drug test on DM being 4 days after the murder. I'm not sure what the half life is but I'm sure it's more then 4 days. Some drugs can be found in a drug/tox screen 1 month after use. I know a few people that were heavily addicted to cocaine and they didn't get violent and want to harm or kill anyone. The one person I know that did get violent, he was also abusing herroin and MDVP (bath salts) he is in jail an placed on the dangerous offenders.

However, I'm wondering if bath salts may be have been an issue. It's something that doesn't show on drug/tox screens (well not in the commonly tested for drugs. It's a specific test to test for it) but severely ulters ones mind. The girl mentioned MDMA, I wonder if she confused it with MDPV at the parties.
It's sounds like a horrible drug!!

Bath salts
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22682791

I'm not sure why so many people are so keen to blame drugs here. There is no sign that these guys were on any kind of drug beyond smoking the odd blunt. Anybody high enough on coke, meth or bath salts is going to be very very obvious, to the point where you are not going to let them drive your car. Obvious symptoms include profuse sweating, talking a mile a minute, not being able to stand still, and persistent sniffing. Someone high on drugs like that are unmistakeable, and TBs wife and neighbour indicated nothing to that effect, nor did Igor.

I think there are just a lot of people that don't feel comfortable believing that people could be that evil without some kind of drug to make them that way. But face it people, these people are evil, and the scary thing is that evil Dellen could so easily convince Smich, their girlfriend, employees, etc. to not only keep quite about the crime, but to assist with the cleanup. By my count there are six people that knew about this and not one called police.

 

[billandrew]

Ok I'm now seeing "Stunners Cycles Inc. Grand Opening" on a flyer on MS's end table, with a whole bunch of blank note pads for Stunners Cycles. He must have known someone involved with that place, or was involved himself. I also checked out another Oakville motorcycle place, Motorcycle Enhancements, and browsed some their Facebook photos. There were some photos of girls posing with bikes, and I noted that at least one of those girls is friends with some of Smich's friends, notably a girl we know by initials CD. Small world, I guess.

 

[swedie]

It looks like a tattoo idea he may have had. Probably nothing sinister. IMO

It looks like MM might have been doodling. The drawing appears to be somewhat feminine not masculine, more a girlie thing. Perhaps she was thinking of getting a tattoo. MS doesn't appear to have any tattoos. MOO.

 

[Boudica]

I have no problem accepting that DM and MS are just plain evil. I was thinking that the drug issue may be why they did such a poor job cleaning and covering up their crimes. ie. taking a picture of the gun(s) how stupid is that?

 

[Boudica]

This was from a couple of years ago, I thought that MS had a drug charge. Was it SL who said that DM was selling drugs to LB? Or, was that just speculation on our part.

 

[Gumshew]

Based on the phone number, the motorcycle company is Stunners Cycles in Oakville. The business is closed down.

The skull is part of a logo. I believe the things sticking out of the sides of the skull symbolize pistons. I think the skull is printed on the note pad in a way you can write your notes over it.

 

[dar107]

I'm not sure why so many people are so keen to blame drugs here. There is no sign that these guys were on any kind of drug beyond smoking the odd blunt. Anybody high enough on coke, meth or bath salts is going to be very very obvious, to the point where you are not going to let them drive your car. Obvious symptoms include profuse sweating, talking a mile a minute, not being able to stand still, and persistent sniffing. Someone high on drugs like that are unmistakeable, and TBs wife and neighbour indicated nothing to that effect, nor did Igor.

I think there are just a lot of people that don't feel comfortable believing that people could be that evil without some kind of drug to make them that way. But face it people, these people are evil, and the scary thing is that evil Dellen could so easily convince Smich, their girlfriend, employees, etc. to not only keep quite about the crime, but to assist with the cleanup. By my count there are six people that knew about this and not one called police.

Who is blaming any of this on drugs? For my part it was just discussion on lifestyle, what hold DM may have had over MS and that nature of thing. Obvious to me that drugs were part of the lifestyle. However I do not believe they were to blame or this was done because someone was high. One thing I have found heavy drug use can do is desensitize and kill the moral fiber in people. From LB's ex BF, and the girl in the news article talking about the parties at DM's, we are led to believe LB was calling DM for drugs and he was supplying them, somehow. don't think it is that much of a stretch that he may have supplied others as well, and I am not talking about weed.

 

[andreww]

I have no problem accepting that DM and MS are just plain evil. I was thinking that the drug issue may be why they did such a poor job cleaning and covering up their crimes. ie. taking a picture of the gun(s) how stupid is that?

I think there are several factors at play here. When they got the gun The weren't on the lam. Millard may have already killed two people by that point (depending on the date) but he was probably confident that he'd gotten away with both of those crimes. As others have suggested, the sloppy efforts after this crime were simply due to the walls suddenly closing in on them very quickly as of May 9th. There was just so much stuff that needed to be destroyed in so little time and probably a lack of sleep wasn't making that task any easier.

 

[dar107]

This was from a couple of years ago, I thought that MS had a drug charge. Was it SL who said that DM was selling drugs to LB? Or, was that just speculation on our part.

Later that July, Lerner said he confronted Millard. He said Millard denied talking to Babcock at all until Lerner produced a copy of the phone bill. Lerner said Millard told him Babcock had asked to stay with him, but Millard turned her down.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...ck_leaves_lingering_questions_for_police.html

“He said that she asked him about drugs,” Lerner said, adding Millard said he hadn’t given her any.

 

[andreww]

Who is blaming any of this on drugs? For my part it was just discussion on lifestyle, what hold DM may have had over MS and that nature of thing. Obvious to me that drugs were part of the lifestyle. However I do not believe they were to blame or this was done because someone was high. One thing I have found heavy drug use can do is desensitize and kill the moral fiber in people. From LB's ex BF, and the girl in the news article talking about the parties at DM's, we are led to believe LB was calling DM for drugs and he was supplying them, somehow. don't think it is that much of a stretch that he may have supplied others as well, and I am not talking about weed.

LB was homeless and penniless. She wasn't buying cocaine.

But we'll see, there has been no evidence of any drugs found anywhere, especially amounts that would imply dealing.

 

[JPC]

The skull is part of a logo. I believe the things sticking out of the sides of the skull symbolize pistons. I think the skull is printed on the note pad in a way you can write your notes over it.

That is not a doodle it is preprinted on the paper like a shadow and I believe is part of Spinners Cycle iconography. He has a stack of these paper pads and a grand opening flyer. Thanks to my fellow sleuthers for helping me decipher the name of the cycle shop.

 

[JPC]

LB was homeless and penniless. She wasn't buying cocaine.

But we'll see, there has been no evidence of any drugs found anywhere, especially amounts that would imply dealing.

Was she not acting as an escort to make $$ to feed her habit? She sounded very messed up mentally and through drug addiction. Unfortunatley people in this state are easy picking for manipulative personalities like DM. MOO

 

[Abitcountry]

This was from a couple of years ago, I thought that MS had a drug charge. Was it SL who said that DM was selling drugs to LB? Or, was that just speculation on our part.

I am sure I read something that said DM was supplying LB with drugs.....

 

[andreww]

Was she not acting as an escort to make $$ to feed her habit? She sounded very messed up mentally and through drug addiction. Unfortunatley people in this state are easy picking for manipulative personalities like DM. MOO

People in that position don't do cocaine, they settle for cheap alternatives, namely meth or crack. If she had a habit, she would also have had a source in the city. Dellen Millard would not be her best option for acquiring crack. LBs problem was more a place to stay. I believe that there was some kind of agreement that in exchange for a living arrangement and drugs, sexual favours may have been exchanged.

 

[Gumshew]

I'm not sure why so many people are so keen to blame drugs here. There is no sign that these guys were on any kind of drug beyond smoking the odd blunt. Anybody high enough on coke, meth or bath salts is going to be very very obvious, to the point where you are not going to let them drive your car. Obvious symptoms include profuse sweating, talking a mile a minute, not being able to stand still, and persistent sniffing. Someone high on drugs like that are unmistakeable, and TBs wife and neighbour indicated nothing to that effect, nor did Igor.

I think there are just a lot of people that don't feel comfortable believing that people could be that evil without some kind of drug to make them that way. But face it people, these people are evil, and the scary thing is that evil Dellen could so easily convince Smich, their girlfriend, employees, etc. to not only keep quite about the crime, but to assist with the cleanup. By my count there are six people that knew about this and not one called police.

You have misunderstood the original poster. The speculation is that the events right after the murder were fuelled by coke. Not that coke fuelled the murder!
I don't know why this and other things are constantly getting morphed into people writing that drugs were to blame for the murder. I haven't read anything were someone said drugs were directly responsible for the murder.

And, plenty of people who have high performance jobs use coke without others knowing. Take a look at Wall Street.

1. The motive for the murder seems not to be drug related but truck and thrill related. That doesn't mean DM and MS were not into drugs and other things.

2. Guns involved were procured illegally from gang members who were friends of theirs.

Ultimately, what does it matter if DM and MS were drug sellers and users. They are up on murder1. If they are convicted, 25 to life should also cover all their other illegal activities. It's just that their drug use could very well explain *some* of their behaviour. JMO