Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #6

[Kamille]

5 hours and 10 minutes is basically half an hour different from 4 hours and 38 minutes. First he says the time on the hangar video is off by 5:10, but then he also says he found it was 4;38.. so which is it? I'm not asking about the 10 minute drift during a year in a closet.

The time when it was actually connected was off by 4hrs 38minutes. It drifted in the closet for a year to being 5hr 10minutes off. It drifted another 10 minutes to 5hrs 20minutes while sitting idle and unconnected from the time the video expert first saw it until the time it was analysed.

MOO

 

[Typhoo1961]

Someone needs to post an audio file of the noises the trains make at night, which I'm sure would be heard over at Bobcat.

You can find hundreds of train videos on Youtube to listen to.

Is there a post that explains what initials go to what name? I'm beginning to get confused with all that.

 

[Satchie]

The time when it was actually connected was off by 4hrs 38minutes. It drifted in the closet for a year to being 5hr 10minutes off. It drifted another 10 minutes to 5hrs 20minutes while sitting idle and unconnected from the time the video expert first saw it until the time it was analysed.

MOO

Also to add, it was not the time stamped (6:11 am) on the May 7 video that was off by 5:10, it was the clock in the DVR machine. ie if he had recorded a video in 2014, that would have been 5:10 off, if he had recorded a video in 2015 it would have been off by 5:20.

 

[deugirtni]

The day it was recorded, the timestamp was 4:38 off
The day he first viewed it, a year or more later, the timestamp was 5:10 off
One year later, the time stamp was 5:20 off

Thank you for clarifying. I wasn't getting that from what was tweeted/posted. As previously discussed on here at various times, the tweets are great, but they can't report it all, and so things get missed. Times *are* important.

 

[MsSherlock]

This is from Adam Carter's Live Blog on March 9th, and he was recording what was happening in court. It makes sense that it would be when they are leaving, because......... where was the dog when they arrived? It actually sickens me to think of even the possibility that the dog was in the Yukon the entire time. I was thinking that when the Yukon left the hangar for a bit, that was when DM may have gone home to fetch his dog.. although he was probably not gone long enough to do that.. and if he was going home to do that, then I'm sure he would also have grabbed a change of clothes... the two men picked up MM at 8am.. had they not been changed yet? If they HAD changed clothes already, then that suggests premeditation, since where did the change of clothes come from in advance?

IMO, all of DM's movements scream premeditation. He had a carefully thought out plan to execute that evening and IMHO, it was planned right down to the time he would arrive back at the airport. Waterloo International has a manned control tower that provides a view from one end of the field to the other. The Airport also hosts a nice compliment of domestic carriers, but they have a "night restrictions", essentially reducing traffic from 11 pm- 6:30 am to emergency type flights.

The control tower opens at 1200Z (8am) and closes at 0400Z, midnight on May 6/13. So between midnight and 8 am, the airport is a couple people ahead of a ghost town. DM & MS chose to work in darkness not drawing attention to the hangar, slithering out to keep an eye on the Eliminator as it engulfed an innocent man. Precision planning right down to keeping the hangar dark and the window of opportunity to get the job done. By the time the airport woke up, DM & MS were picking up MM in Oakville. MOO

http://www.acukwik.com/airportinfo/CYKF

http://www.waterlooairport.ca/en/pilotinformation/airportspecifications.asp#restrictions

 

[deugirtni]

Can you please elaborate on this? There is only one cell phone exhibit that has ever been used and presented to the jury in this case. What is it that you believe to have been different? And what possible relevance does the cell records between DM and SH have to this crime? They were discussing business. So unless the calls between them were necessary to provide a time and location for DM, they were irrelevant.

The jury does not need to see pages upon pages of telephone records, 70 percent of which have nothing to do with this crime. Talk about confusion. MS received 21 messages overnight on the 6th. Can you imagine the records that could have been presented if every call and text that both of them made or took for over a week had been presented in court? And the defense likely would have argued out all the calls that were irrelevant anyway. The records that were chosen were selected to show timeline, where each of them were at any given time, apart and together and focused on some people they were in contact with. I would assume that some or all of these people will be taking the witness stand.

The defense has their own complete copy of the phone records and are welcome to make their own exhibit from them if there is anything there that they feel should have been presented in this case and wasn't or they want to interpret things in a different way with the records.

MOO

1. I elaborated the other day as to one thing which I noticed to be different between two versions of exhibit#37

2. Cellphone records between DM and SH were thoroughly discussed in court on Thursday, specifically texts. Since SH's testimony was important enough for him to be a witness in this trial, and the exact time to the second that texts were sent back and forth between SH and DM, I would expect that these texts would show up on the detailed cellphone logs that were presented in exhibit#37, to show that they matched up. You are correct in that it would be overwhelming to have included every call and text sent and received by DM/MS, however in my opinion, it would have been prudent to include the ones from those testifying at this trial, and especially if same texts are being referred to on the stand. That is only my opinion.

 

[Claroon]

I'm not sure how much faith I have in the witness who said he saw an orange tarp...

Also, just wanted to point out that orange tarps are not that common, could he have been talking about one of those orangish-red tarps that are rubberized and so heavy that they often take two people to carry?

Type into your search bar "orange tarp" then click on images. Tons of orange tarps are available. I trust in the professionals who have vetted the information gathered.

 

[Kamille]

1. I elaborated the other day as to one thing which I noticed to be different between two versions of exhibit#37

2. Cellphone records between DM and SH were thoroughly discussed in court on Thursday, specifically texts. Since SH's testimony was important enough for him to be a witness in this trial, and the exact time to the second that texts were sent back and forth between SH and DM, I would expect that these texts would show up on the detailed cellphone logs that were presented in exhibit#37, to show that they matched up. You are correct in that it would be overwhelming to have included every call and text sent and received by DM/MS, however in my opinion, it would have been prudent to include the ones from those testifying at this trial, and especially if same texts are being referred to on the stand. That is only my opinion.

Please link the two versions of exhibit 37 that you are referring to. There was only one version presented in court and that is the exhibit that every reporter received to put online. How is it possible for there to be two versions? And what exactly do you think is different about these mysterious two versions?

TIA

ETA: The jury does not need to cross reference the texts that were presented from SH in court to phone records, and the defense did not have an issue that they were presented and not on the cell phone exhibit presented by the Crown so why should we?

 

[Claroon]

They kill two birds with one stone. They are already surveilling DM and see if he starts acting strange and doing cover up type activities. Also they get leads from the public of all the folks that know of DM and may wish to contribute as well as potentially bringing up other possible POIs with the same tattoo.

No links to post, but IMO this was a far-reaching investigation. They didn't find the bones & eliminator until 10th so until then it was a missing truck investigation IMO. Likely took some time to trace all Millard's connections re properties owned, etc. Then they needed search warrants, staff organized, approval to work in other districts, and all things in place so they didn't screw up any evidence. I don't see an issue with the time at all.

The tattoo was important as there might be someone else out there with one. And, gives them a time to see who's connected to DM and knew about the tattoo. IMO

 

[hopingforjustice]

IMO, all of DM's movements scream premeditation. He had a carefully thought out plan to execute that evening and IMHO, it was planned right down to the time he would arrive back at the airport. Waterloo International has a manned control tower that provides a view from one end of the field to the other. The Airport also hosts a nice compliment of domestic carriers, but they have a "night restrictions", essentially reducing traffic from 11 pm- 6:30 am to emergency type flights.

The control tower opens at 1200Z (8am) and closes at 0400Z, midnight on May 6/13. So between midnight and 8 am, the airport is a couple people ahead of a ghost town. DM & MS chose to work in darkness not drawing attention to the hangar, slithering out to keep an eye on the Eliminator as it engulfed an innocent man. Precision planning right down to keeping the hangar dark and the window of opportunity to get the job done. By the time the airport woke up, DM & MS were picking up MM in Oakville. MOO

http://www.acukwik.com/airportinfo/CYKF

http://www.waterlooairport.ca/en/pilotinformation/airportspecifications.asp#restrictions

Not arguing your post..actually totally agree Just an FYI

I just flew out of there in September to Chicago enroute to Nashville. My flight was scheduled for 6:45 am and we actually left on time. Told to be there 2 hours prior. Not a soul in sight inside at 4:55 when I got there. Ladies got there to check us in about 6am Very laid back....none of the busy airport hoopla. I didn't pay attention to outside at that time but there is no way a 6:45am flight left on time without some activity outside at least an hour prior. And as a side note, as we took off I couldn't help but see the hanger . It is so large it is almost an eyesore on that property..especially from the air

 

[Claroon]

Imho, we can't blame the prosecution for putting that little hint out there that those 2 bang noises existed in the background (which when Adam Carter listened to and watched the video in the courtroom, noted that he had not heard them). !

Columnist Susan Clairmont did hear one - Twitter ‏@susanclairmont Mar 8
"Third time watching I hear a bang as two vehicles come into frame."

 

[Claroon]

You can find hundreds of train videos on Youtube to listen to.

Is there a post that explains what initials go to what name? I'm beginning to get confused with all that.

I think it would be easy, if necessary, to trace what schedule the train was on that night. IMO they found a truck full of blood so where the shot was fired is immaterial. As per the opening statement:

"The Crown intends to prove that on this date in the late evening hours, Tim Bosma was killed in his truck, shot by the two accused at close range, while on a test drive with his truck; his body then incinerated hours later by the two accused."http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/tim-bosma-trial-the-crowns-opening-statement.html

 

[MsSherlock]

Not arguing your post..actually totally agree Just an FYI

I just flew out of there in September to Chicago enroute to Nashville. My flight was scheduled for 6:45 am and we actually left on time. Told to be there 2 hours prior. Not a soul in sight inside at 4:55 when I got there. Ladies got there to check us in about 6am Very laid back....none of the busy airport hoopla. I didn't pay attention to outside at that time but there is no way a 6:45am flight left on time without some activity outside at least an hour prior.

Not sure if the tower comes in earlier, but some airports have arrangements with CYYZ for clearances after hours. Hard to say how many people are there first thing in the morning and there could be ground crew there specifically for that flight. By the time the sun came up, DM & MS were in clean up mode. You're correct, it's extremely laid back and DM knew the hours well. MO

 

[MsSherlock]

1. I elaborated the other day as to one thing which I noticed to be different between two versions of exhibit#37

2. Cellphone records between DM and SH were thoroughly discussed in court on Thursday, specifically texts. Since SH's testimony was important enough for him to be a witness in this trial, and the exact time to the second that texts were sent back and forth between SH and DM, I would expect that these texts would show up on the detailed cellphone logs that were presented in exhibit#37, to show that they matched up. You are correct in that it would be overwhelming to have included every call and text sent and received by DM/MS, however in my opinion, it would have been prudent to include the ones from those testifying at this trial, and especially if same texts are being referred to on the stand. That is only my opinion.

Isn't there a possibility that there are texts that may have been ruled inadmissible? And even if they were admissible, including a bunch of relatively benign texts in a graphics presentation to the Jury would do absolutely nothing to assist the Crown prove their case. IMO, the Crown has absolutely no incentive or reason to dilute their case with anything that isn't relevant. MOO

 

[deugirtni]

You can find hundreds of train videos on Youtube to listen to.

Is there a post that explains what initials go to what name? I'm beginning to get confused with all that.

I as referring to the trains at night that specifically go by on that very track. I wrote before about the loud noises they make. If in fact 2 bangs are heard on that video, I suspect they were from the nighttime 'shunting' activities that take place around there.

I haven't seen a post with initials.. but that is a great idea.. very hard to keep up with all of them, and especially if the players are not talked about that frequently.. could it perhaps be a sticky on every thread? Is anyone game to create such a list?

 

[deugirtni]

Please link the two versions of exhibit 37 that you are referring to. There was only one version presented in court and that is the exhibit that every reporter received to put online. How is it possible for there to be two versions? And what exactly do you think is different about these mysterious two versions?

TIA

ETA: The jury does not need to cross reference the texts that were presented from SH in court to phone records, and the defense did not have an issue that they were presented and not on the cell phone exhibit presented by the Crown so why should we?

One version is the link which ABro posted the other day, which is absent the communication (one of them) between DM and SH.

Another version is one which I saved to my own hard drive at the time when it was posted publicly, I believe on Scribd by The Spec, but at this point I am really not sure from which news venue I obtained it, but it is the actual PP file that was released for exh#37, which shows one communication between SH and DM, which I pasted a day or so ago.

<modsnip>

 

[deugirtni]

Columnist Susan Clairmont did hear one - Twitter &#8207;@susanclairmont Mar 8
"Third time watching I hear a bang as two vehicles come into frame."

Thank you, I missed that. Just to clarify however, I was not saying that I did not believe there were 2 bangs, I'm sure there were, or the Crown would/could have easily been proven wrong. The Crown, IIRC, did not intimate what they suspected the bangs were from, that was left entirely up to anyone's imagination, imo. I'm just saying that both sides are saying things, mentioning things, intimating things, trying to sway perceptions one way or another, and if one side can do it, then it's game for both sides, imo.

 

[deugirtni]

I think it would be easy, if necessary, to trace what schedule the train was on that night. IMO they found a truck full of blood so where the shot was fired is immaterial. As per the opening statement:

"The Crown intends to prove that on this date in the late evening hours, Tim Bosma was killed in his truck, shot by the two accused at close range, while on a test drive with his truck; his body then incinerated hours later by the two accused."http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/tim-bosma-trial-the-crowns-opening-statement.html

I'm with you that I don't believe it matters at exactly what time, exactly in which location, or even exactly who pulled the trigger, however some seem to feel that information is necessary to have in order to get a conviction. This case is built piece by piece by piece, mostly with circumstantial evidence, and I think it makes some people uncomfortable to put accuseds away for 25 years without more concrete, direct evidence. Just basing that on some posts I have read here over time. Moo.

The good thing is that the judge has already advised the jury (and will again) that circumstantial evidence is no less in weight than direct evidence, and that the entirety of all the evidence must be weighed once it is all in, before their collective decision is made.

 

[Kamille]

One version is the link which ABro posted the other day, which is absent the communication (one of them) between DM and SH.

Another version is one which I saved to my own hard drive at the time when it was posted publicly, I believe on Scribd by The Spec, but at this point I am really not sure from which news venue I obtained it, but it is the actual PP file that was released for exh#37, which shows one communication between SH and DM, which I pasted a day or so ago.

<modsnip>

I am simply asking for you to provide the link that you claim is different from the link that most of us have been using for the cell phone exhibit as I am curious to see this different exhibit. You are claiming that something exists and I'm asking if you can prove that with a link.

Here is the link that I have for the cell phone exhibit. The communication with SH is on it. https://docs.google.com/presentatio...AGTr4PrZnEc7rU/edit?pref=2&pli=1#slide=id.p25

<modsnip>I would genuinely like to see the two different exhibits and would like to know why we should be concerned that the Crown did not put all of the communication between SH and DM on the exhibit. Do we know if the jury will be also be provided with the full phone records?

MOO

 

[Typhoo1961]

I haven't seen a post with initials.. but that is a great idea.. very hard to keep up with all of them, and especially if the players are not talked about that frequently.. could it perhaps be a sticky on every thread? Is anyone game to create such a list?

I even looked for a sticky at the beginning of the threads but never found anything.