Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #6

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #201
Arnie, I think the Trevor Dunn photo below may be what you are looking for. However, this photo was taken May 15, and appears to be a single bucket seat frame ... Maybe the missing rear right Yukon seat frame?
http://t.co/cS9FN53jDc
attachment.php

imagejpeg

Thank you Murphy ... it sure does look like a single seat with a fold down back for a Yukon/Suburban .... I owned an ex-RCMP Suburban for years .... the rear seat(s) (bottom part) flips up and forward against the back of the front seat ... then the upright part folds down making a complete flat deck in the back ... it will hold a 4 foot by 10 foot sheet of plywood ... more room than a typical truck box.

However .... the seat I remember seeing was wider with an upright back (like the Bosma style) and no policemen around

Now that you show this picture ... are you thinking like me .... maybe DM also had to burn one of his Yukon seats after he (presumably) transported and incinerated LB ???? WOW.... thanks again !!!

I should also mention that I carefully studied the picture of DM's Yukon the other day .... and pretty much determined the right rear passenger seat had been removed , unless that piece of plywood is covering it but I dont think so .... I will go back and take another look .
 
  • #202
Question - If someone was and has been posting on this site, but are a witness in TB's or LB's or WM's trial could their posts be entered as evidence in the trial???

In isolation, no. All evidence introduced has to be in context of sworn testimony. So if either side called a witness, had the witness identify some post here as written by him/her, and some proof adduced that this is so, then the witness could be asked to swear that the post is his and that it is true, according to his knowledge.

But that would be a very roundabout way of doing things. If someone posting here was suspected of being a legitimate witness to something, that person would simply be called directly and asked questions that would reveal what evidence was involved. No need to go in such an indirect route.

Though posts here are anonymous, with subpoenas etc. the needed information to identify the poster could be obtained from the owners/administrators of the site. I don't expect any of this to be taking place, as both the Crown and the defense have better sources of witness testimony. On a message board, people can say anything and while over time one can get an idea who knows what they are talking abut, it's entirely possible someone here or there is posting completely fictitious "information." I haven't noticed anyone doing that, but of course it's possible; I have seen it in other online fora.
 
  • #203
hmmm This is not the photo I remember, but makes me wonder what OTHER evidence from OTHER shenanigans needed to be burned by these guys. This burn site looks too old perhaps a year or more older than 2013.

Yes .... that seat frame has been there for a while , the old corn stalks are lying on parts of it

Looks like the shadows of the officers standing to the right.
If you blow it up you can tell it is a component of some sort with symmetrical sides , and a hoop portion similar to the contours of a seat

I don't think it is a "burn site" ... Perhaps it was dropped there accidentally (fell off a truck or trailer)

Agreed ... it has been there for a while ... LB went missing the previous year
 
  • #204
Yes .... that seat frame has been there for a while , the old corn stalks are lying on parts of it

If you blow it up you can tell it is a component of some sort with symmetrical sides , and a hoop portion similar to the contours of a seat

Agreed ... it has been there for a while ... LB went missing the previous year

Nope, I'm not buying that, it's a shadow.
 
  • #205
Regarding the Video of the Blacked out Yukon arriving to pick up MM. I've tried to capture the back end of the vehicle to see the trailer hitch. For some reason my software will not capture a pic. Could one of you fine folk please capture an image of the hitch.

Also, Where did the Hitch end up? I don't see it in the Yukon images.

Thanks:please:
 
  • #206
The pictures you have attached are on the front of the barn, and yes, it would be impossible to drive the machine into the barn that way.

There is a ramp at the back of the barn, which, based on a normal barn, leads to big barn doors that slide along a track, the type of big doors that a farmer would use to drive in a hay wagon. Within the big sliding barn door is a smaller man door. Nearly all barns of this period have that kind of set up. The big door would most likely be used by DM to get the vile machine into the upper part of the barn.

It would be consistent with the neighbour seeing lights on the silo, because the silo is right beside the ramp and door.

If you click on the second video at the link below, you can see it at 26 seconds.
http://globalnews.ca/news/828217/tim-bosma-toronto-police-once-again-searching-dellen-millards-farm/

I do not see big sliding doors in that shot. Just a small door barely big enough for the LE officer to enter. What am I missing? :waitasec:

2utrku9.png


ETA: Okay I see what you're saying..that there is a rail system we cant see that pushes a large section of boards at that ramp over for large equipment access?
 
  • #207
A phone can't ping after the power is turned off. I strongly suspect that 10:56 time is a mistake. I'm guessing the real time might be 9:56. The police use a 24 hour clock so it might have been an on-the-spot conversion resulting in an error.

A phone does not ping when it's off, but it does ping a tower once as it powers down, as in the battery power is completely lost to the phone. So while TB's phone was shut off at 10:02pm and no longer receiving calls/texts, therefore not instigating any cell phone pings, it likely ran out of battery power at 10:56pm while sitting on the lawn of Kemira since a phone that is shut off will continue to use power for apps that run behind the scenes and do not access cell towers.

HTH
 
  • #208
Regarding timestamps, they should always be considered approximate, even when a margin of error +/- 1 minute is cited. Consider the timestamps between the GA Masonry video and cell activity reports for the evening of May 9 when DM's red Dodge Ram left the hangar:

1.jpg2.jpg

While the video shows the truck and trailer leaving the hangar at 8:43pm (corrected time), the cell activity places DM and MS almost halfway back to Oakville around the same time. Based on this, IMO, there is a margin of error greater than 1 minute between these data sources. And while it doesn't really matter in this instance, generally speaking it is important to be aware that times are not always exact.

Note: this post is not a criticism of the forensics work. If anything, it's an acknowledgement of the significant challenges involved in determining exact times of events from various pieces of evidence.
 
  • #209
This case shows why the days of the big serial killers are done. I reckon it would be virtually impossible to kill 20 people anymore without being spotted on video.

Serial killers will always be with us, I suspect. But murderers like Ted Bundy, who operated in populated areas, would probably be found much more quickly given the prevalence of video today. Although Tim's case took place in a rural area, it is one that is highly populated and where many businesses are located, thus the plentiful security video found that is relevant to the case.

If you go to very sparsely populated or wilderness areas, such surveillance systems are few and far between, and so are cell phone towers (though any serial killer with half a brain would be taking the battery out of his cell phone). Killers with M.O.s like the "Green River Killer" (Gary Ridgeway) or Cary Stayner could simply select victims in remote areas (hitchhikers, or ones working on a vehicle by the road) and decamp to another remote location for the rest of the crime. One reason for so many missing and murdered indigenous women is that they tend to be in areas not heavily surveilled and for which information on the crimes is hard to obtain (there is also a bias against proper investigation in some cases, but the locales do play a role).

We don't have to look too far away for cases that suggest that location is a variable. Think of the murders of the Lyle and Marie McCann in Alberta a few years ago. Their bodies have never been found. There is circumstantial evidence against Travis Vader but no video. The Crown may not be able to convict Vader:

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/cri...es-uphill-battle-in-travis-vader-murder-trial

Then there was the murder of Nathan O'Brien and his grandparents in Calgary two years ago; there's certainly strong circumstantial evidence of violence, but again, no bodies found and no compelling (video or telephone) evidence, so far as we know, against the major suspect in the case. A publication ban was issued at the time of his preliminary hearing, so there may be more evidence that we won't learn about until later.

But a canny serial killer could still have numerous victims if he selected the most vulnerable in remote locales and avoided cell phones. Hitch-hikers and runaways are obvious potential targets, as are wilderness campers and hikers. Even in a populated area, killers can get away with it with no evidence found, as in the case of little Cedrika Provencher in Trois Rivieres in 2007. There is no evidence whatever in the case, even though she went missing in a populated neighbourhood. It was Nicole Morin all over again.

Modern technology certainly makes catching serial offenders early on much more probable, though.
 
  • #210
Arnie, I think the Trevor Dunn photo below may be what you are looking for. However, this photo was taken May 15, and appears to be a single bucket seat frame ... Maybe the missing rear right Yukon seat frame?......just noticed that the officer on the ground has at least one blue glove on and may be examining something in hand....the mounted officer is not wearing gloves.
http://t.co/cS9FN53jDc
attachment.php

imagejpeg

CBC has this photo and 1-2 more of both officers on horse back doing a grid search of the corn field.
One of the officers has dismounted and appears to be making notes right beside the object on the ground. I am guessing that the reason the officer got of the horse was to have a closer look.
You're right....there are shadows from the officers and horses....but there is a very dark item that curves upward from the ground that appears to be the sometime more that is being checked out. IMO......I just noticed that the officer on the ground is wearing at least one blue glove--possibly to examine something in hand. The mounted officer is not wearing gloves as far as the picture shows.
 
  • #211
Does anyone have any thoughts on why DM "hid" his red truck at that bungalow in Cambridge?
I expect if police found any evidence inside of it, we'll soon hear about it.

I would have been more inclined to hide the Yukon, given that it was used on the night of murder and following day.

I'm also curious about how both his vehicles ended up at the hangar. Maybe MS was using one?
I'm thinking that's why he needed to get MM involved. Does she have a drivers licence?
Also, that red truck drives up to the hangar with a cap on it on the 9th about 7pm? I suspect it had just been at the farm briefly to pick up those burned out seats so they could be placed in the 5th wheel trailer and hidden in Klienburg.
 
  • #212
That there are people who know things not mentioned on this forum(or mentioned and discarded), is a given. Not really insider info in terms of what the prosecution will present but more on the knowing of goings on in the daily life of DM and his "entourage".

As for LE, I'm very concerned that they presented video with 30 minutes (and that is just one video) of discrepancy and omitted to show a second truck that seems to be indiscernible from the first. So... what comes to my mind already is a degree of inaccuracy and cherry picking. I hope their timeline matches up in the long run. I'd hate to see this case bungled.

The second truck went by at a time when it has been established that DM was walking up TB's driveway. Don't let the smoke and mirrors get to you. LE, despite what some may think, usually get this stuff right. ;)

MOO
 
  • #213
Does anyone have any thoughts on why DM "hid" his red truck at that bungalow in Cambridge?
I expect if police found any evidence inside of it, we'll soon hear about it.

I would have been more inclined to hide the Yukon, given that it was used on the night of murder and following day.

I'm also curious about how both his vehicles ended up at the hangar. Maybe MS was using one?

It appears that DM was going to switch out VIN numbers on the trucks so he had to hide the red one in order to do this. Not sure what he would have done with it after. It was hidden before he went to get it on the 9th and he re-hid it on the 10th. It was probably always at the hangar prior to that. I hope we will be hearing from someone connected to the home on Maple Grove where he and SS dropped it off.

MOO
 
  • #214
Regarding timestamps, they should always be considered approximate, even when a margin of error +/- 1 minute is cited. Consider the timestamps between the GA Masonry video and cell activity reports for the evening of May 9 when DM's red Dodge Ram left the hangar:

View attachment 90488View attachment 90489

While the video shows the truck and trailer leaving the hangar at 8:43pm (corrected time), the cell activity places DM and MS almost halfway back to Oakville around the same time. Based on this, IMO, there is a margin of error greater than 1 minute between these data sources. And while it doesn't really matter in this instance, generally speaking it is important to be aware that times are not always exact.
.

One might say, from looking at the inset photo of the hanger, taken at sunset, that the building is orange! Dwindling sunlight distorts colour like that.
 
  • #215
Along with that I have had some thoughts there was an additional farm visit in there somewhere

We know the seats were burned in the farm field , plus another square burn area that could have been a tarp ... personally I think it was the truck carpet which has generally square dimensions .

But here is what I really wanted to say .... I distinctly remember seeing a picture of what looked exactly like a burned seat frame sitting in the corn stubble. And I think it was taken by the same guy who took the incinerator pictures days before police ever got there

I am thinking the seat may have been burned one day .... the remaining steel frame left to cool down and then picked up some time later and hidden in the big trailer with the truck.

I looked high and low for the picture but did not find it again. Back in 2013 I made the comment it looked like an old seat frame .... at the time none of us knew the truck interior had been burned.

.

I did not see any pictures of a burned seat frame and I've seen what I believe to be most of the pictures in this case. It's entirely possible that they exist though. I don't know if DM would have moved the seats from the farm on the morning of the 8th after burning them. I would have thought he'd put them in the barn to hide them but they may have still been hot and he certainly didn't want a fire in there. He was likely only there for an hour so he was probably in a hurry and figured he'd come back and deal with the clean up of the seats and burn area later.

They did return to the farm between the hours of 4:38pm and 5:51pm on the 9th before getting the red truck (from wherever it was) and putting TB's truck in the trailer to move it to MB's. Most likely they picked up the seat frame then IMO.

MOO
 
  • #216
A phone does not ping when it's off, but it does ping a tower once as it powers down, as in the battery power is completely lost to the phone. So while TB's phone was shut off at 10:02pm and no longer receiving calls/texts, therefore not instigating any cell phone pings, it likely ran out of battery power at 10:56pm while sitting on the lawn of Kemira since a phone that is shut off will continue to use power for apps that run behind the scenes and do not access cell towers.

HTH

Do you have a link to support the "it does ping a tower once as it powers down" part? I don't see the point of that, because the phone network does not store state so it really wouldn't care if a phone was dying or not. Does not make sense. I strongly believe a phone does not ping as the battery dies. Also, once turned off (prior to this alleged event) anyway it would be unable to ping at all anyway.

I think as ABro pointed out that this is a timestamp error.
 
  • #217
A phone does not ping when it's off, but it does ping a tower once as it powers down, as in the battery power is completely lost to the phone. So while TB's phone was shut off at 10:02pm and no longer receiving calls/texts, therefore not instigating any cell phone pings, it likely ran out of battery power at 10:56pm while sitting on the lawn of Kemira since a phone that is shut off will continue to use power for apps that run behind the scenes and do not access cell towers.

HTH

That's an interesting theory but I'm still not seeing how a phone can a ping a tower if it's off.

:thinking:
 
  • #218
Regarding the Video of the Blacked out Yukon arriving to pick up MM. I've tried to capture the back end of the vehicle to see the trailer hitch. For some reason my software will not capture a pic. Could one of you fine folk please capture an image of the hitch.

Also, Where did the Hitch end up? I don't see it in the Yukon images.

Thanks:please:

Here you go. Has anyone ever wondered why they used Tim Bosmas truck to tow the incinerator to the hanger and not the Yukon? The only reason I can think of is that DM wanted to drive the truck, and MS didn't want to drive the Yukon with a trailer...perhaps he had never done that before.
After all, towing it with the Yukon would make a lot more sense...when you are driving a stolen vehicle, you don't exactly want to attract attention, and towing an "Eliminator" with one is just plain stupid!

YUKON_HITCH.JPG
 
  • #219
Regarding burnt seat frames. I too remember a photo of a burnt seat frame though my memory says it was folded down or was just the seat pan. The photo did not have police/horses in the shot.
The photo with the police/horses does have a dark object that curves upwards as others have said, but I do not believe in MOO that it would have been in the field since 2012 as such a metal object would have ruined the combine used to harvest the corn. It is was noticed and moved out of the way at harvest time it should not, at the time of the photo, be back in the corn stubble. More likely, in MOO, it was place there after the corn was harvested. ALL MOO
 
  • #220
Do you have a link to support the "it does ping a tower once as it powers down" part? I don't see the point of that, because the phone network does not store state so it really wouldn't care if a phone was dying or not. Does not make sense. I strongly believe a phone does not ping as the battery dies. Also, once turned off (prior to this alleged event) anyway it would be unable to ping at all anyway.

I think as ABro pointed out that this is a timestamp error.

I don't. It was from a case back in 2011 and some cell phone expert claimed this in some television interview. But I can't find it and he could have been wrong so I'm willing to concede that this information was a typo or some kind of error and that it was likely a ping when they were travelling through Brantford on their way to Kemira at 9:56pm.

MOO
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
147
Guests online
2,875
Total visitors
3,022

Forum statistics

Threads
632,136
Messages
18,622,611
Members
243,032
Latest member
beccabelle70
Back
Top