Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #6

[flipflop]

Perhaps a bit unrelated to the actual murder, but I was thinking - what happens to Tim's truck in this situation? It's been kinda torn apart by forensics, and I doubt Sharlene would want it back anyway... What does LE do with stolen vehicles like this? After the verdict is in and they have photos/videos of everything they wouldn't need the actual truck... I would hope they would sell the parts and give the money to the Bosma family... or something.

Wouldn't insurance write it off and send it to the junk yard.

 

[Alethea Dice]

The OTHER photos will not be found here as they were removed. The photos that I think showed the early burn patches were included with the first incinerator pics and excavator pics etc. They were submitted by a person that was on that property regularly. The pics mysteriously disappeared as they had appeared before MSM had reported anything being found on the farm. These are the ones some of us are referring to. There were NO LE in the photos. Alot of us started feeling ill when we first saw them as we were by then putting two and two together. They were only up for a very short time. AS I said in another post alot of early postings have disappeared, not just ones with photos. JMO

Well if the pictures of the incinerator were supposed to have been taken at the same time as the photos that claim to be missing of burned seats in the field then that would be impossible. Because the incinerator picture that showed up early, taken by a neighbour, was taken while it was in the trees. Testimony so far indicates that was the first time it was ever in that location, prior to that it had been kept in the barn. When it was moved to that location, the burned seats were not at the farm, they were already in the back of the trailer parked in MB's driveway. So I'm not sure what pictures we are talking about but I understand that the pictures from the neighbour of the incinerator in the trees and the excavator stuck in the swamp are still available online. If there were supposed to have been pictures of burned seats, they could not have been taken at the same time as the incinerator pictures and would definitely have been used as evidence if they exist IMO.

MOO

FWIW, there was the neighbour who claimed he took the pictures of the excavator and backhoe the previous March and the picture of the incinerator on the Friday (May 10th).

Trevor Dunn
‏@trevorjdunn
Millard neighbour says incinerator he photographed was moved recently. On Friday, at it's original location, the ground was scorched.
2:45 PM - 14 May 2013

[video=twitter;334424357436792833]https://twitter.com/trevorjdunn/status/334424357436792833[/video]

I can't go back that far on twitter, but the next post was:

Trevor Dunn‏@trevorjdunn7h
Neighbour says forensic investigation tent is now set up over burnt soil he observed Friday - where incinerator was originally located

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?209159-Canada-Timothy-Bosma-32-Hamilton-Ontario-6-May-2013-4-**ARREST**&p=9432188#post9432188

Two men working on a farm near Millard’s property on Roseville Road in North Dumfries said Wednesday afternoon that one of them took a photo of what appears to be an incinerator on Millard’s property. The pair, who did not want to be identified, said police have since seized the phone with the photo on it and told the men not to speak to media about the image.

http://www.therecord.com/sports-story/3243068-lawyer-says-millard-to-plead-not-guilty-in-tim-bosma-murder/

A neighbour who requested anonymity told CBC News he had given police a photograph of what he called an incinerator on a trailer that he saw on the site on Friday. He said the place where police have set up a tent is one of the locations where he saw the incinerator. Police were asked about the mobile incinerator but would not comment.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/more-suspects-sought-in-tim-bosma-slaying-1.1334007

I seem to remember at the time that there were photos posted of the areas where we were speculating where it may have been the first time it was seen and whether LE had moved it away from the scorched area for their investigation, but I couldn't find those posts. It was discussed in so many different threads.

CM had said that he first saw the incinerator on the Friday and didn't see the burn spots until he took LE back to show them the excavator.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/dirt-biker-found-incinerator-on-farm-of-accused-in-tim-bosmas-death/article28781830/

So were the first neighbours different people who had seen it earlier?

 

[billandrew]

Speaking of scorch marks, I know it has been widely debated on this forum whether or not the incinerator could scorch the ground below it. From the video evidence, we now know the incinerator is capable of creating visible flares both above and below it, so I would certainly not rule out the possibility that such flares could scorch the ground.

 

[Errrr]

Speaking of scorch marks, I know it has been widely debated on this forum whether or not the incinerator could scorch the ground below it. From the video evidence, we now know the incinerator is capable of creating visible flares both above and below it, so I would certainly not rule out the possibility that such flares could scorch the ground.

View attachment 90533

It would have to burn through the trailer it sits on first in order to reach the ground.

 

[Errrr]

The insurance co. would have settled for theft, so the truck will eventually be scrapped. That's why it's so ridiculous to claim that TB might have resisted the theft. He'd probably get a better deal from insurance than if he sold it privately.

I think the truck was recovered long before anyone was thinking of putting a claim in for a stolen truck. It still doesn't qualify as a write off does it?

 

[billandrew]

It would have to burn through the trailer it sits on first in order to reach the ground.

I agree, it seems like a stretch. The heat/flare would have to travel through or around the metal bed of the trailer. Alternatively, perhaps there was an accelerant used, or a hot item removed from the incinerator and placed on the ground. I don't know. As far as I know, besides the two burn sites, we've never officially heard of any scorch marks on the ground anywhere else. And I assume those burn sites had nothing to do with the incinerator.

 

[matou]

Was the Lucas Bate phone ever found? If not, I wonder what happened to it? I don't think it was used again after TB's death.

 

[Prairie_dawg]

Was the Lucas Bate phone ever found? If not, I wonder what happened to it? I don't think it was used again after TB's death.

I don't think we have been presented any evidence of its use after being turned off nor have we heard if it was ever found. I am hoping a more detailed examination of debris from the burn sites may show cell phone bits. Indeed it would be a great find getting the burner phones intact.

 

[SnooperDuper]

The most surprising thing I have heard to date in this case is that they ignited the incinerator just behind that hangar.

The most chilling thing: that they redirected the cameras at the hangar the week before the crime.

It seems the hangar cameras would have primarily picked up activity around the incinerator. To me the shifted cameras speak of premeditation to use the incinerator.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Incinerator, trailer, scorched marks:

I think, they burned the truck seats and smaller items, perhaps on something like a metal pad, on the cereal farmland. When cooled down, DM (with CN) by night maneuvered the trailer with incinerator on top exactly over the scorched ground to conceal the marks. Then the trailer had been moved once more to the final location. Why not back into the barn, I wonder. Did DM want to avoid the barn to be searched through?

 

[Ontario Mom]

FWIW, there was the neighbour who claimed he took the pictures of the excavator and backhoe the previous March and the picture of the incinerator on the Friday (May 10th).



[video=twitter;334424357436792833]https://twitter.com/trevorjdunn/status/334424357436792833[/video]

I can't go back that far on twitter, but the next post was:



http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?209159-Canada-Timothy-Bosma-32-Hamilton-Ontario-6-May-2013-4-**ARREST**&p=9432188#post9432188



http://www.therecord.com/sports-story/3243068-lawyer-says-millard-to-plead-not-guilty-in-tim-bosma-murder/



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/more-suspects-sought-in-tim-bosma-slaying-1.1334007

I seem to remember at the time that there were photos posted of the areas where we were speculating where it may have been the first time it was seen and whether LE had moved it away from the scorched area for their investigation, but I couldn't find those posts. It was discussed in so many different threads.

CM had said that he first saw the incinerator on the Friday and didn't see the burn spots until he took LE back to show them the excavator.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/dirt-biker-found-incinerator-on-farm-of-accused-in-tim-bosmas-death/article28781830/

So were the first neighbours different people who had seen it earlier?

I do remember all of that and seeing a completely different pic back then, than what we've seen entered into evidence. That pic disappeared a long time ago though. I think it was on twitter but I'm not 100% on that - might have been FB.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The most surprising thing I have heard to date in this case is that they ignited the incinerator just behind that hangar.

The most chilling thing: that they redirected the cameras at the hangar the week before the crime.

It seems the hangar cameras would have primarily picked up activity around the incinerator. To me the shifted cameras speak of premeditation to use the incinerator.

bbm
Why wasn't it possible to put the incinerator at another place? Because of energy supply?

 

[SnooperDuper]

bbm
Why wasn't it possible to put the incinerator at another place? Because of energy supply?

I guess so: they needed to plug it in.

 

[Prairie_dawg]

bbm
Why wasn't it possible to put the incinerator at another place? Because of energy supply?

Yes it requires power to run the series of fans that increase the burn temperature and efficiency, however we did see it with a blue portable generator on the trailer in early photos. I think they wanted to keep it close while they worked on stripping the truck.

 

[Prairie_dawg]

DM/MS did a u-turn and returned with the big trailer to the hangar, then jumped out and brought an orange tarp out of the hangar, carrying it somehow folded between them (IMO that means each man at one end of the tarp). So it seemes the tarp had a heavy weight. Were they carrying the burned truck seats and some other items in it??

I think that's what was happening, one person could carry a tarp, but it would take two to carry the seat frame with tarp. I suspect like many have suggested, the tarp colour was green but may have appeared orange in the twilight.

 

[SnooperDuper]

On TB being killed accidentally: was just reading the wording in a ruling on another case:

The judge ruled it was a case of attempted murder after accepting Crown prosecutor Keith Nicholls’ argument that when a handgun is pointed at a vital part of the body and fired, the only reasonable inference that can be drawn, absent any explanation, is that it was fired with the intention of killing the victim.

The perp had claimed the gun discharged accidentally.

Ziegler claimed he was about to knock on the bedroom door when Schafers opened it and lunged at him with a closed fist. He said he grabbed the gun in a panic and it accidentally discharged.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...is-landlord-between-the-eyes-with-a-flare-gun

The perp was convicted.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I think that's what was happening, one person could carry a tarp, but it would take two to carry the seat frame with tarp. I suspect like many have suggested, the tarp colour was green but may have appeared orange in the twilight.

There's no reason why the tarp couldn't be orange: sure, an orange tarp was not found but grommets were found in both the scorched patches and in the incinerator. Obviously, some tarps got burned, and an orange one could have been one of them.

 

[Abitcountry]

Exhibit #37 (Mob Reporter--You Tube) has to do with cell phone activity beginning Friday May3 through to Millard's arrest Friday May 10, 2016.
In addition to the main figures --DM MS CN MM, I was surprised to see all of the other names that appeared as having been active in terms of direct calls or texts especially from Monday May 6 to Friday May 10.
Schlatmann was not entirely surprising at about 33 contacts by phone May 6,7,8,9....Tuesday May 7 was surprising in that that was the day that the Hangar was off limits to employees but apparently SS was in contact with DM anyway.
Spafford had 14 contacts by phone on May 4,5,9
Whidden had 12 contacts by phone on May 5,6,7,9
Scott had 11 contacts by phone May 8,9
Wishbone had 8 contacts by phone May 4,8,9
Haggerman had 8 contacts by phone on May 9 and several contacts
on May 6 have since been eliminated from the cell phone activity
record for that day.
Unknown# had 16 contacts by phone on May 7,8,9 plus missing calls
that were once present on May 6

.....and there were about 27
others calls from number Unknowns at various numbers during this period.

Number of calls included texts to and/or from ....and calls to and/or from the key figures.
I am not claiming that my numbers are 100% accurate and they are difficult to duplicate now given that some of the original pages in this exhibit or parts of pages have been removed...the figures are really only meant to show that some individuals were regularly in contact with key figures on significant dates during the week in question.

I am alert to the names and will be looking to see if any of them are mentioned in the remaining days of the trial. I have no doubt the names will be fleshed out by the time the books on this case come out.

 

[Abitcountry]

And while we have a bit of a down time in terms of topics to discuss.....I would like to explore the issue of a third person being present on May 6.
I do recall hearing chatter about it but when I finally read anything it came out something like this --'police have eliminated the possibility that the girlfriend (CN) was the third party on the night of TB's disappearance'.
I vaguely recall that it was about the time that CN was released on bail.

I am just wondering if I missed something...was the third person issue officially put to rest by LE ????

 

[ABro]

Haggerman had 8 contacts by phone on May 9 and several contacts on May 6 have since been eliminated from the cell phone activity record for that day.

Here, for the record, is a link to the full PowerPoint presentation shown at trial, missing only the cover page. I'm not sure on what basis you are saying cell phone activity has since been eliminated.

Could it be that you misremembered?


https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1LUH8AIqxz_A5BaPXaGFPoyS8wM9CJAGTr4PrZnEc7rU/edit