Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #7

[ArianeEmory]

Will CN know what has been testified to by Whidden?

Can they forbid WITNESSES from reading the news?

 

[Tealgrove]

Just heard while listening to the Gomeshi trial found NOT GUILTY BTW...but the reporter said that the crown has to disclose evidence to the defense but that the defense does not have to disclose witnesses and evidence to the crown...

I started to read this article on it
http://redengine.lawsociety.sk.ca/inmagicgenie/documentfolder/ac0347.pdf
and it's very interesting and goes on to talk about Bernardo and Homolka and how the 2 defense teams acted (mainly Bernardo's Lawyer getting the tapes and holding on to them)..it got me thinking..why if Smich did nothing and was only a participant after the fact did he not become a witness for the crown? Could he still be called as a witness against DM? Is Smich only charged because they have no evidence to prove who did what? and so have to charge them both?

BBM

But he was not a participant after the fact. We know that his DNA showed up in very relevant places. We know his phone pinged right in the same areas as DM. Circumstantially we know a great deal. We know there were two drivers that night. He did participate and we have to be patient for MM to testify because she has the goods on him I am sure. We just haven't got to him yet.

I think the Crown has done a very good job. They have built the case around DM as the planner, MS the gopher. There is more to come....We must be patient, although I must admit, I'm dying for them to get to MS because I think he talked and talked and talked to MM. MOO

What he ISN'T is the brains in the equation, however, I actually think, if left to his own devices he might have planned this out better than DM - MOO.

 

[Prairie_dawg]

...
But he was not a participant after the fact. We know that his DNA showed up in very relevant places. We know his phone pinged right in the same areas as DM. Circumstantially we know a great deal. We know there were two drivers that night. He did participate and we have to be patient for MM to testify because she has the goods on him I am sure. We just haven't got to him yet.

I think the Crown has done a very good job. They have built the case around DM as the planner, MS the gopher. There is more to come....We must be patient, although I must admit, I'm dying for them to get to MS because I think he talked and talked and talked to MM. MOO...

<rsbm>
I agree with you. I viewed photos of MS and he seems like a haunted soul afterwards, unlike DM who seems arrogant. I would bet that MS spilled his soul to MM as she would notice him being 'different' after the events of May 6/7. MOO

 

[CJPRINCESS]

In regards to flights at $600/person. These flights actually go up to $3,000/person depending on time of year (prime or off season) End of November to beginning of January are prime and expensive to fly during those times. $600 is based on April flights which would be off season.

I do not know when JV went to Colombia? Link below, click on calendar and scroll for prices.

https://www.google.ca/flights/#sear...2016-04-13;eo=e;q=toronto+to+colombia+flights

 

[SnooperDuper]

I think MM will testify that MS was led by DM. I don't think that she will testify against MS because they are still, the news reports, boyfriend and girlfriend. (I've never seen MM described as an ex.)

 

[CJPRINCESS]

I think MM will testify that MS was led by DM. I don't think that she will testify against MS because they are still, the news reports, boyfriend and girlfriend. (I've never seen MM described as an ex.)

I believe she moved on quite quickly after MS was arrested. She had an open FB and had a new bf in around October 2013...if I remember correctly.

 

[RandomName479]

$600 per person is about what I'd expect someone on a budget to pay. He could have taken 15 people for $9.5K. The other thing that makes me scratch my head is that tax bill that Millard was supposed to cover. JV said he eventually had to take care of it himself, but how? This guy seems to have a lot of money going out but very little coming in.

You can do a vacation to Colombia for $600 per person? I need you to plan my next trip.....

 

[Tealgrove]

I think MM will testify that MS was led by DM. I don't think that she will testify against MS because they are still, the news reports, boyfriend and girlfriend. (I've never seen MM described as an ex.)

I don't believe so...my nephew is acquainted with MM. I believe she has moved on.

 

[loveisthemovement]

Can they forbid WITNESSES from reading the news?

I wondered this same thing. Because the jury is instructed to stay away from media, I wondered if the same went for witnesses. They aren't allowed in the courtroom prior to testifying so they probably shouldn't be reading about what's happening in the courtroom either....or so my logic goes.

 

[andreww]

In regards to flights at $600/person. These flights actually go up to $3,000/person depending on time of year (prime or off season) End of November to beginning of January are prime and expensive to fly during those times. $600 is based on April flights which would be off season.

I do not know when JV went to Colombia? Link below, click on calendar and scroll for prices.

https://www.google.ca/flights/#sear...2016-04-13;eo=e;q=toronto+to+colombia+flights

Searched for 30 seconds. Leaving Jan 2, 2017 to Bogata $883

 

[SnooperDuper]

I believe she moved on quite quickly after MS was arrested. She had an open FB and had a new bf in around October 2013...if I remember correctly.

I don't believe so...my nephew is acquainted with MM. I believe she has moved on.

Silly me. I guess she's a realist: MS is occupied for a while, it's serious, and there's no millions to marry into.

It's impossible for CN not to have understood that DM was involved in this murder. Why did she stick by him?

 

[Prairie_dawg]

I believe DM had some kind of control or leverage over each and every member of his entourage. Once he had his hooks in them he could exert pressure to get what he wanted. I suspect the cross on JV is just that. He knew he had JV on the tax issues and could always use that to force him as well as the financial control. Someone mentioned indentured servant, exactly.

As for others, he has knowledge of online activity or petty crimes that they may not want made public. Some perhaps committed larger crimes, thus the threat of 'if I go down I am taking you with me'. Others, the dangling of opportunity carrots just out of reach. While others it was money and or drugs made available. It was certainly quite the puppet show. MOO

I am still boggled that MS never tried to get out of dodge when DM was arrested. He seemed to bobble about his life completely unaware. But not even an attempt to head to BC by bus or some such attempt like other criminals in this country. JMO

 

[andreww]

You can do a vacation to Colombia for $600 per person? I need you to plan my next trip.....

Thats just a flight. I'd assume he has family there. Even so, $9.500 is one hell of a lot to pay for a vacation. I've taken the wife to some pretty nice all inclusive resorts for a quarter of that cost.

Its interesting that so many people here don't bat an eyebrow over JVs expenses, yet everybody went nuts over DMs Baja entry fee. Im not saying JV is doing anything wrong here, just that a lot of what he is saying isn't adding up. Everybody that we have seen that has been associated with DM has some kind of shady background, so why not JV? We already know he was working under the table and paying zero income tax, so its not a stretch to think there might be something else. Its also a little hard to believe that he had a wife that may have been making decent coin, as why would he be living off the Bank of Millard?

 

[andreww]

I believe DM had some kind of control or leverage over each and every member of his entourage. Once he had his hooks in them he could exert pressure to get what he wanted. I suspect the cross on JV is just that. He knew he had JV on the tax issues and could always use that to force him as well as the financial control. Someone mentioned indentured servant, exactly.

As for others, he has knowledge of online activity or petty crimes that they may not want made public. Some perhaps committed larger crimes, thus the threat of 'if I go down I am taking you with me'. Others, the dangling of opportunity carrots just out of reach. While others it was money and or drugs made available. It was certainly quite the puppet show. MOO

I am still boggled that MS never tried to get out of dodge when DM was arrested. He seemed to bobble about his life completely unaware. But not even an attempt to head to BC by bus or some such attempt like other criminals in this country. JMO

I agree 100% PD. JV for instance, if he were to cross Millard and lose his job, he'd lose his house, he'd lose his vehicle, and he'd be on the hook for the money he owed. He has no access to Employment Insurance because Millard has kept him off the books either. Basically, when Millard says Jump, JV jumps.

 

[DeepWoodsOff]

Thats just a flight. I'd assume he has family there. Even so, $9.500 is one hell of a lot to pay for a vacation. I've taken the wife to some pretty nice all inclusive resorts for a quarter of that cost.

Its interesting that so many people here don't bat an eyebrow over JVs expenses, yet everybody went nuts over DMs Baja entry fee. Im not saying JV is doing anything wrong here, just that a lot of what he is saying isn't adding up. Everybody that we have seen that has been associated with DM has some kind of shady background, so why not JV? We already know he was working under the table and paying zero income tax, so its not a stretch to think there might be something else. Its also a little hard to believe that he had a wife that may have been making decent coin, as why would he be living off the Bank of Millard?

Just jumping off your post...

I think JV's biggest disadvantage over other witnesses is that he is the last witness before a 5 or 6 day break...he is going to be over analyzed, particularly because the Defense said they need another 2 hours to cross examine him. That has a lot of people wondering what this guy could be up to that they need another 2 hours to dig into. MOO

Personally I think he is just another one of DM's partnerships/business relationships that was built on sand. No different than the young guy that thought they were starting an aviation endeavor together. JV was slugging his way through the renovation projects, late payments etc. because he had the vision of the new business partnership in his mind..building those big homes at the farm. The trend seems to be that all these guys thought DM was able to bankroll these big projects and he flashed enough cash to keep that image alive and well. So far the defense hasn't had much to go after but it appears they are going to try to attack this witness. But for me...tax evasion, un-clarified trips to Colombia etc. don't equate to him being involved in kidnapping/murder. In fact if his testimony hold up, his testimony is more damning to DM ie: switching of the vehicles etc. MOO

 

[DeepWoodsOff]

She's free to read the papers, and I have a hard time believing that if LE was aware of LW, that they did not pass the story on to CN in an effort to gain her cooperation.

It's ultimately up to CN if she cooperates or not.

I was wondering this exact thing. Did LE tell her to try to get her onside quicker OR did CN just hear this for the first time when LW testified??? Hmmm....

 

[marycanuck]

T
Its interesting that so many people here don't bat an eyebrow over JVs expenses, yet everybody went nuts over DMs Baja entry fee.

well, he's not on trial for first degree murder, for starters.... and the nature of the trip, if it was relevant, or helpful to DM's, would have been dragged out by defense... unless of course that's part of the two-hours yet to be questioned...
I agree that there's a shady element about everyone involved in the DM 'circle'... (I almost said 'circle of trust' there, but whoah, what an oxymoron...)

JMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

Thats just a flight. I'd assume he has family there. Even so, $9.500 is one hell of a lot to pay for a vacation. I've taken the wife to some pretty nice all inclusive resorts for a quarter of that cost.

For all we know, he took his whole family on a trip that included an internal flight and a 2-hour taxi trip to some small village, where he brought gifts and cash to cover his stay. Don't forget the fees and taxes when you quote your airfare, either. Perhaps there was a car to hire, and then food for everybody plus the relatives, dining out because you'd like to show your appreciation. Perhaps more travel to visit other relatives while he's in the country.

Roaming the world at will just isn't comparable to travel to an all-inclusive resort.

Its interesting that so many people here don't bat an eyebrow over JVs expenses, yet everybody went nuts over DMs Baja entry fee. Im not saying JV is doing anything wrong here, just that a lot of what he is saying isn't adding up. Everybody that we have seen that has been associated with DM has some kind of shady background, so why not JV? We already know he was working under the table and paying zero income tax, so its not a stretch to think there might be something else. Its also a little hard to believe that he had a wife that may have been making decent coin, as why would he be living off the Bank of Millard?

But he was evading income tax under the direction of DM, who was the Canadian and the businessman and was supposed to know how to do things legally. I'm not buying that an immigrant who concentrates on following his employer's lead and depends on him for all business matters would be on top of Canada's tax laws.

In fact the main shortcoming for people coming from other countries in their work experience may be their knowledge of their new country's laws:

Paramount Fine Foods Commits To Hiring Syrian Refugees At Every Store

Fakih this week hired a refugee as an assistant manager. "He was a hotel manager back home, so he&#8217;s not lacking in business experience. He needs training on anti-racism law, labour law, how to deal with the consumer -- what&#8217;s right, wrong, offensive," Fakih says -- things that are already part of Paramount&#8217;s training, just an elongated version of it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/03/23/canadian-business-hiring-syrian-refugees_n_9526080.html

 

[Prairie_dawg]

I have a large family and I can attest that a simple trip that is not to a packaged resort can EASILY eat up $10k. Those packages are heavily discounted and often include charter flights further reducing the costs. When you try to buy your own tickets and possibly accommodations and meals, car rental perhaps, it adds up really fast. (very different of course IF you can find family that will put you up)

 

[flipflop]

I wonder about CN realizing that she may be going to jail, and the lover got a $10,000 bonus.

IMO I think both CN and MM will throw their once upon a time BF's (DM & MS) under the bus by telling the truth of what they know. MM has already moved on, so why cover for MS. CN....well, I think reading a newspaper or 2 and she will do the right thing!!! MOO