Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #7

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  • #101
Just to clarify the tax evasion issue. FWIK, all that has been said is that JV received cash. There's no crime against that- anyone can get paid cash. What is law is that an employer (in this case DM via Millardair or Millard Properties) MUST issue a T4 prior to the end of February. If DM was paying him cash, it's actually DM that's circumventing the tax system. There's no indication that JV filed a tax return falsifying income info so IMHO, JV has simply not complied with the CRA's requirement to file an annual income tax return. Pretty hard to file when you don't have an accounting from the person who's paying you. DM was taking advantage of his "english as a second language" Columbian construction crew. Also, LW the book keeper never made mention of JV on the payroll. Wonder how DM was putting his rentals and auto lease thru his books. He's probably up to his neck with the CRA and we just don't know about it. MOO

I can totally believe that someone at his age then (50) could be fluent in English but functionally illiterate in English, especially when it comes to government forms and their peculiar vocabulary and interests. I volunteered at a walk-in where people got help with all sorts of government stuff, and a lot of the clientele were ESL and dependent on the help to manage. I have a lot of compassion for JV because he was trusting DM, someone close to him, to do things properly for him.
 
  • #102
I can totally believe that someone at his age then (50) could be fluent in English but functionally illiterate in English, especially when it comes to government forms and their peculiar vocabulary and interests. I volunteered at a walk-in where people got help with all sorts of government stuff, and a lot of the clientele were ESL and dependent on the help to manage. I have a lot of compassion for JV because he was trusting DM, someone close to him, to do things properly for him.
I have a lot of compassion for JV as well, so much so that I am starting to despise DM's defence tactics. We live in a society where we have a reasonable expectation that people we consider friends aren't shooting us a line of bull- we trust that we really have a friendship. I guess this is whats eating away at my gut right now. DM is a psychopath- he's not capable of having a reciprocating friendship. Absolutely everything he did had strings attached to it or he had complete control of. What made DM so dangerous is that he had money. People thought they were his friends but there wasn't a single one of them that he wouldn't use. Those standing beside DM should really be counting their blessings he's in jail. When you factor in the death of WM and LB, it's pretty clear- EVERYONE and ANYONE was disposable to DM.
SH and JV had absolutely no reason to doubt DM's interest in various business ventures. Maybe DM did have grandiose ideas of being a successful developer or having a successful FBO- he could only get those things with the assistance of people like SH and JV. DM had no skills aside for flying the helicopter his dad bought for him. MOO
 
  • #103
I have a lot of compassion for JV as well, so much so that I am starting to despise DM's defence tactics. We live in a society where we have a reasonable expectation that people we consider friends aren't shooting us a line of bull- we trust that we really have a friendship. I guess this is whats eating away at my gut right now. DM is a psychopath- he's not capable of having a reciprocating friendship. Absolutely everything he did had strings attached to it or he had complete control of. What made DM so dangerous is that he had money. People thought they were his friends but there wasn't a single one of them that he wouldn't use. Those standing beside DM should really be counting their blessings he's in jail. When you factor in the death of WM and LB, it's pretty clear- EVERYONE and ANYONE was disposable to DM.
SH and JV had absolutely no reason to doubt DM's interest in various business ventures. Maybe DM did have grandiose ideas of being a successful developer or having a successful FBO- he could only get those things with the assistance of people like SH and JV. DM had no skills aside for flying the helicopter his dad bought for him. MOO

I think DM probably liked to have a guy like SH around, because hey, he was $12/hr, really keen, willing to go to those boring airport meetings, and probably deflected a lot of the heat off DM for the failed MRO plan. I don't think DM wanted to form an FBO - I think he needed to, to stay on airport property. At the same time other things were more important to him (real estate) and SH was there to pick up the slack, buzzing around the airport making it sound like things were happening.

DM likely knew $5k investment in the FBO was an amount sufficiently high to crush SH's business dreams. It was his way of letting him down easy.
 
  • #104
<rsbm>
I agree with you. I viewed photos of MS and he seems like a haunted soul afterwards, unlike DM who seems arrogant. I would bet that MS spilled his soul to MM as she would notice him being 'different' after the events of May 6/7. MOO

While I definitely think DM is the ring leader here, I can't cut MS any slack as he's also accused of first-degree murder in the Laura Babcock case. I wonder what MM knows about that.
 
  • #105
Hard to imagine the benefit at this stage of the trial for the defence to try and lay the blame on JV. If this is indeed the defence's strategy, well, they are crazy and have clearly been taking orders from a deranged DM.

They should look up the meaning of "blowback". I can't imagine the jury, after all the evidence presented so far, suddenly start thinking that JV was the killer, or even an accomplice. This would be a massive blunder by the defence because it would reek of desperation and nobody on that jury would believe it for a minute. Surely an insult to their collective intelligence.

Let's hope they actually pursue such a theory in court. If this is the best excuse they have, they are done. They are done anyway, but just sooner.
 
  • #106
The screenshot of the Riverside property with the hose and the police markers.. it looks like (to me) that part is a patch of browned grass, while the rest of the grass seems to be green (please correct me if I'm seeing things incorrectly). That leads me to wonder, but it is just stupid to wonder such a thing imho, if there had been perhaps a tarp on that patch of grass, which tarp had perhaps been hosed off and then left for a few days (May 7th to 10th?), which caused the browning of only that patch (which looks to me like it could be from something having been on top). It was early May, and I'm not sure of the recent weather conditions at that time in 2013, but none of the other grass appears to be brown. Could he have hosed down the bloody tarp on the lawn there, left it to dry, then a couple of days later, realized his goose was cooked, went to fetch it, saw the browning, and perhaps also that there may have been traces of the stuff he had washed off the tarp onto the lawn, and so had V run the hose on the area for TEN hours.

I guess it would have made MUCH more sense to just burn (even if not in the incinerator), or drop off in someone's trash can in some neighbourhood somewhere, the inexpensive tarp, rather than to wash it, and re-use it to cover the burned out seats... so that is why I can't imagine spending all that time to clean off the tarp, and spend all that money in water consumption, for a $12 tarp that could provide evidence of murder.

If he had used the hose at Riverside to wash the tarp, even if the browned area had nothing to do with anything, he could have perhaps wanted to ensure there were no little traces of tissue, etc., left behind on the lawn?

Any thoughts on the running-water-for-10-hours issue?

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  • #107
It's interesting that the Crown's case is that Tim was shot by the two defendants. I've assumed that that is because they can't put the gun in one hand or the other. It's almost impossible to imagine that MM and MS talked about the 'gone gone gone' and talked about the weapon and it's disposal but MM didn't ask what specifically happened. Perhaps she was scared, or perhaps she understood with her gangster/wankster boyfriend that she was in a milieu where you just didn't ask. Maybe she asked and he told her not to ask. Maybe she asked and he lied. I'm just thinking for the first time though that there is a possibility, however small, that we will hear testimony about who held the gun.
 
  • #108
I think DM probably liked to have a guy like SH around, because hey, he was $12/hr, really keen, willing to go to those boring airport meetings, and probably deflected a lot of the heat off DM for the failed MRO plan. I don't think DM wanted to form an FBO - I think he needed to, to stay on airport property. At the same time other things were more important to him (real estate) and SH was there to pick up the slack, buzzing around the airport making it sound like things were happening.

DM likely knew $5k investment in the FBO was an amount sufficiently high to crush SH's business dreams. It was his way of letting him down easy.

I had figured (assumed) that someone (accountant/MB?) had had a financial meeting with DM at some point and told him flat out that he can't be just starting these business ventures to go into partnership with people without the people investing at least small monetary contributions/commitments.

It may have seemed like a fair partnership since DM was putting up the money, the facilities, the airport lease, the equipment, while SH would have been contributing his wealth of contacts, personal experience, knowledge in FBO operations, etc., but if the arrangement was going to be that it would be an equal partnership where both would reap the eventual returns and rewards of any profits on building such a business, I could see an accountant or MB, insisting that such a partner must also contribute at least a small sum.

I don't feel that $5K was very much to ask SH to come up with, to be a partner in an FBO business, even if he didn't personally have that kind of money (who would, making $12/hr??), but surely he could have found it to borrow from friends/relatives/banks/etc?

On the other hand, I wasn't convinced from the testimony presented, that DM was truly interested in establishing an FBO, since he was allowing SH to go to important meetings on his own, without DM. (I believe DM told SH that he wouldn't be able to meet with the rep from Esso, which SH had set up?, but that may have only been due to timing, but somehow it seems like DM was more excited by 'easy money', as opposed to operating a legit business, moo).
 
  • #109
The screenshot of the Riverside property with the hose and the police markers.. it looks like (to me) that part is a patch of browned grass, while the rest of the grass seems to be green (please correct me if I'm seeing things incorrectly). That leads me to wonder, but it is just stupid to wonder such a thing imho, if there had been perhaps a tarp on that patch of grass, which tarp had perhaps been hosed off and then left for a few days (May 7th to 10th?), which caused the browning of only that patch (which looks to me like it could be from something having been on top). It was early May, and I'm not sure of the recent weather conditions at that time in 2013, but none of the other grass appears to be brown. Could he have hosed down the bloody tarp on the lawn there, left it to dry, then a couple of days later, realized his goose was cooked, went to fetch it, saw the browning, and perhaps also that there may have been traces of the stuff he had washed off the tarp onto the lawn, and so had V run the hose on the area for TEN hours.

I guess it would have made MUCH more sense to just burn (even if not in the incinerator), or drop off in someone's trash can in some neighbourhood somewhere, the inexpensive tarp, rather than to wash it, and re-use it to cover the burned out seats... so that is why I can't imagine spending all that time to clean off the tarp, and spend all that money in water consumption, for a $12 tarp that could provide evidence of murder.

If he had used the hose at Riverside to wash the tarp, even if the browned area had nothing to do with anything, he could have perhaps wanted to ensure there were no little traces of tissue, etc., left behind on the lawn?

Any thoughts on the running-water-for-10-hours issue?

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It's hard to know what the significance is. It's possible that the hose has nothing to do with anything and they just introduced that bit to further shed DM in a negative light for being thoughtless and entitled, even with shared resources like water. I would feel like a complete a$$hole if I ran water for 10 hours without an extremely good reason. It could be that the water running has nothing to do with anything, but the hose does. Hope we find out more.
 
  • #110
It's interesting that the Crown's case is that Tim was shot by the two defendants. I've assumed that that is because they can't put the gun in one hand or the other. It's almost impossible to imagine that MM and MS talked about the 'gone gone gone' and talked about the weapon and it's disposal but MM didn't ask what specifically happened. Perhaps she was scared, or perhaps she understood with her gangster/wankster boyfriend that she was in a milieu where you just didn't ask. Maybe she asked and he told her not to ask. Maybe she asked and he lied. I'm just thinking for the first time though that there is a possibility, however small, that we will hear testimony about who held the gun.

If we do hear testimony about who held the gun, from say MM or CN, it will be their word as to what one of the accuseds told her (unless she actually witnessed the shooting), so the jury will have to evaluate whether to give it weight or not, just like they have to evaluate Whidden's testimony that DM told her he believed he may have been 'set up by someone he works with'. Can't wait for the girlfriends to testify.
 
  • #111
It's hard to know what the significance is. It's possible that the hose has nothing to do with anything and they just introduced that bit to further shed DM in a negative light for being thoughtless and entitled, even with shared resources like water. I would feel like a complete a$$hole if I ran water for 10 hours without an extremely good reason. It could be that the water running has nothing to do with anything, but the hose does. Hope we find out more.

I'm thinking (moo) that it does have significance in this case, since the point was made that V had never been asked to do such a thing before that time, and there are police markers present. Does anyone know whether that particular residence was vacant or had a tenant at the time?
 
  • #112
The screenshot of the Riverside property with the hose and the police markers.. it looks like (to me) that part is a patch of browned grass, while the rest of the grass seems to be green (please correct me if I'm seeing things incorrectly). That leads me to wonder, but it is just stupid to wonder such a thing imho, if there had been perhaps a tarp on that patch of grass, which tarp had perhaps been hosed off and then left for a few days (May 7th to 10th?), which caused the browning of only that patch (which looks to me like it could be from something having been on top). It was early May, and I'm not sure of the recent weather conditions at that time in 2013, but none of the other grass appears to be brown. Could he have hosed down the bloody tarp on the lawn there, left it to dry, then a couple of days later, realized his goose was cooked, went to fetch it, saw the browning, and perhaps also that there may have been traces of the stuff he had washed off the tarp onto the lawn, and so had V run the hose on the area for TEN hours.

I guess it would have made MUCH more sense to just burn (even if not in the incinerator), or drop off in someone's trash can in some neighbourhood somewhere, the inexpensive tarp, rather than to wash it, and re-use it to cover the burned out seats... so that is why I can't imagine spending all that time to clean off the tarp, and spend all that money in water consumption, for a $12 tarp that could provide evidence of murder.

If he had used the hose at Riverside to wash the tarp, even if the browned area had nothing to do with anything, he could have perhaps wanted to ensure there were no little traces of tissue, etc., left behind on the lawn?

Any thoughts on the running-water-for-10-hours issue?

attachment.php

The brown stuff looks like wood chips and/or mulch, or like someone chopped up a tree for firewood...?

LE swabbed the hose, so they were looking for something.
 
  • #113
The brown stuff looks like wood chips and/or mulch, or like someone chopped up a tree for firewood...?

LE swabbed the hose, so they were looking for something.

Maybe DM thought if he watered he woodchips long enough a tree would grow :happydance:
 
  • #114
The brown stuff looks like wood chips and/or mulch, or like someone chopped up a tree for firewood...?

I was thinking the same thing. It looks like something that comes out of a woodchipper and put on the grass in that area to soak something up. Blood perhaps?
 
  • #115
I think we heard there was a blood swab from the hose? There are 3 evidence markers though.

The yellow and red things are the tops from spray bottles. They look brand new.
 
  • #116
In the video, the incinerator looks like it still has cardboard wrapping on it. Was this a photo from SS's testimony? So this was in July 2012 if it was just delivered.
 
  • #117
On May 6, Bochenek drove Michalski to the Millardair hangar near Kitchener to pick up his car. They left there by 8 p.m. The Crown's theory is that about six hours later, Millard and Smich brought Tim's body to the hangar and burned it.


A few days later Bochenek saw Millard and his girlfriend Christina Noudga in a red Dodge pickup in the Etobicoke home's driveway.


"I thought maybe they were making out or something," he testified. So he discreetly went in one door and a moment later the pair went in another.
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6404168-bosma-trial-two-more-lives-changed-by-dellen-millard/
 
  • #118
The brown stuff looks like wood chips and/or mulch, or like someone chopped up a tree for firewood...?

LE swabbed the hose, so they were looking for something.

I was thinking the same thing. It looks like something that comes out of a woodchipper and put on the grass in that area to soak something up. Blood perhaps?

Would be interesting if a couple of dead corn husks had been found in amongst the other brown stuff. I hadn't read that LE had swabbed the hose, will go and look for that now.
 
  • #119
Would be interesting if a couple of dead corn husks had been found in amongst the other brown stuff. I hadn't read that LE had swabbed the hose, will go and look for that now.

Susan ClairmontVerified account &#8207;@susanclairmont Mar 22
Exhibit 642-3. A swab from a garden hose seized from Riverside Drive in Toronto. #Bosma
 
  • #120
BBM

But he was not a participant after the fact. I We know that his DNA showed up in very relevant places. We know his phone pinged right in the same areas as DM. Circumstantially we know a great deal. We know there were two drivers that night. He did participate and we have to be patient for MM to testify because she has the goods on him I am sure. We just haven't got to him yet.

I think the Crown has done a very good job. They have built the case around DM as the planner, MS the gopher. There is more to come....We must be patient, although I must admit, I'm dying for them to get to MS because I think he talked and talked and talked to MM. MOO

What he ISN'T is the brains in the equation, however, I actually think, if left to his own devices he might have planned this out better than DM - MOO.

BBM I don't remember any DNA evidence on MS but I could be mistaken.

Edit: I see this has been answered. Sorry hadn't read ahead yet!
 
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