Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #7

[SnooperDuper]

Good quick summary of video evidence:

CHCH News ‏@CHCHNews 56m56 minutes ago
.@HefCHCHNews breaks down key elements of the crown's case against the two men accused in the Tim Bosma murder trial http://www.chch.com/bosma-trial-timeline/ …

ETA: this video is May 28 and they say there are still 20 witnesses to go....

 

[swedie]

Good quick summary of video evidence:

CHCH News ‏@CHCHNews 56m56 minutes ago
.@HefCHCHNews breaks down key elements of the crown's case against the two men accused in the Tim Bosma murder trial http://www.chch.com/bosma-trial-timeline/ …

ETA: this video is May 28 and they say there are still 20 witnesses to go....

Two videos we didn't see? The one from Roseville Rd. a couple kms from the farmland, then the one from May 7th, under the cover of darkness where the incinerator is being hauled presumably back to the farmland? Notice that the hangar lights are still on. DM planned on returning that night or someone stayed behind at the hangar. MOO.

 

[deugirtni]

We also know the Eliminator was designed to be mobile and was all fueled up.

Why wasn't it where they needed it to be? At the hangar?

We know they had a gun

We know one of them probably did.

and yes we know DM wanted diesel truck that was the same make as his red one.

Yes he was shopping for one, but we also know he already had a perfectly capable truck. Wasn't there talk of entering a second car that year? Maybe TB's truck would allow Smich to be part of a second team?


We all know there has been talk of Millard being cash strapped, but there is a huge difference in not being able to come up with the cash for a million dollar condo and coming up with $25K for a truck. JV said Millard was certainly late paying at times, but he seemed to always get paid. There hasn't been any testimony about Millard not being able to bay his bills and plans were underway to develop the farm property. And bottom line, he could have just used the old gas truck! Was this a big enough issue to kill someone over? And if they wanted the truck, why not go in the middle of the night and hot-wire it?

And I hear you about the chop shop. But what chop shop?

What truck? (per DM to SS)

 

[swedie]

<rsbm>

Not so fast...




http://www.cliapei.ca/sitefiles/File/publications/CRI1.pdf

Thanks Snooper, I realize this but perhaps illegal activity was discovered while phones and/or computers were searched of other witnesses. Using their testimony against them in another case is one thing, but if LE discovering evidence pertaining to criminal activities, perhaps in this case or any other case, that's a whole different story. Example: someone paid someone else to get rid of evidence which could have been used in a case, that would be considered tampering with or destroying evidence, which is against the law obviously, therefore the person who destroyed or got rid of evidence committed an illegal offence and could bring about charges. Or someone making illegal drug deals, illegal gun sales via text kwim. MOO.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Thanks Snooper, I realize this but perhaps illegal activity was discovered while phones and/or computers were searched of other witnesses. Using their testimony against them in another case is one thing, but if LE discovering evidence pertaining to criminal activities, perhaps in this case or any other case, that's a whole different story. Example: someone paid someone else to get rid of evidence which could have been used in a case, that would be considered tampering with or destroying evidence, which is against the law obviously, therefore the person who destroyed or got rid of evidence committed an illegal offence and could bring about charges. Or someone making illegal drug deals, illegal gun sales via text kwim. MOO.

I wonder about MB:

- had the truck parked at her house after DM's arrest and did not inform LE
- involved in the "beyond smelly" real estate deals
- $10k payout to LW2

I wonder if MB was so fervent in her support of her son that she crossed a line? We don't know all of what she was up to, but on the surface, she seems to have been rather...obstructionist?

 

[swedie]

I wonder about MB:

- had the truck parked at her house after DM's arrest and did not inform LE
- involved in the "beyond smelly" real estate deals
- $10k payout to LW2

I wonder if MB was so fervent in her support of her son that she crossed a line? We don't know all of what she was up to, but on the surface, she seems to have been rather...obstructionist?

Perhaps she's been subpoenaed also by the Crown to testify? Who could those other twenty witnesses be I wonder? MOO.

CN, MM, MB, MWJ or the other Matthews, CB, Scotty, a couple more officers, MS's mother or someone from his family, whoever MS contacted to try and sell the gun to, the "friend" who DM left the toolbox and gun with...? :thinking: MOO.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Perhaps she's been subpoenaed also by the Crown to testify? Who could those other twenty witnesses be I wonder? MOO.

CN, MM, MB, MWJ or the other Matthews, CB, Scotty, a couple more officers, MS's mother or someone from his family, whoever MS contacted to try and sell the gun to, the "friend" who DM left the toolbox and gun with...? :thinking: MOO.

We've never had LE up to address the hangar search. I wonder if they'll have MM, the guy whose Harley was stolen?

 

[hopingforjustice]

I wonder about MB:
- had the truck parked at her house after DM's arrest and did not inform LE
- involved in the "beyond smelly" real estate deals
- $10k payout to LW2

I wonder if MB was so fervent in her support of her son that she crossed a line? We don't know all of what she was up to, but on the surface, she seems to have been rather...obstructionist?

BBM

I think we have to hear from her. Her testimony is pivotal ..could show premeditation or show maybe got caught with his pants down. ie: immediate search for Tim when he thought he would have at least 24 hours before LE would consider him missing. (I personally think that is what made this look so unorganized. I do think it was all arranged and premeditated, but I think they figured they had a couple of days before any real LE work would begin. Their sloppiness began when they realized that their timeline had to be moved up and fast!)

Did DM call her a day or so before and say "hey Mom..mind if I park my trailer in your driveway for a couple days" or was it the reverse "Hey Dellen, why is your trailer in my driveway"

 

[canadiangirl]

This is a little random but I've been wanting to ask. I was always under the impression that a diesel truck was common. I've seen enough out there. Turbo Cummins etc. Was this such a hard item to find and why? Did Dodge stop making a truck with a diesel engine?

 

[canadiangirl]

My husband always carries a very lethal looking (to me) 4 inch blade folding knife in his pocket, used by Mr. Fixit several times a week at work or around the house.
I wonder if TB carried a pocketknife.......

Also, on the subject of LW2's receipt of $10,000 for a seller referral fee, when I was an agent the referral fee was usually a small percentage of the selling agent's commission.
If the listing and selling commission share was 50/50 split, and then the broker and agent was another 50/50 split, the selling agent could make 1.25% on the sale based on a 5% commission.
If the condo sold for say, $700,000 then the total 5% commission would be $35,000. The selling broker split is 50% which equals $17,500. The selling broker/agent split would be 50/50 so the selling agent would make $8,750. Referral fees used to be between 10% and 20%, so to be generous the referral fee could be $1,750 based on 20% of the selling agent's commission.
Said referral fees were paid by the selling agent's broker, as there is paperwork required to be authorized by all parties involved.
It appears LW2's referral fee of $10,000 was very generous.

Many agents do work on a higher commission split with their brokers but then they must pay for office space, office personnel, advertising, office supplies, etc. etc.

JMHO

I suggested earlier about the box cutter or something else being used but no one seemed to like that suggestion lol

 

[SnooperDuper]

I think we have to hear from her. Her testimony is pivotal ..could show premeditation or show maybe got caught with his pants down. ie: immediate search for Tim when he thought he would have at least 24 hours before LE would consider him missing. (I personally think that is what made this look so unorganized. I do think it was all arranged and premeditated, but I think they figured they had a couple of days before any real LE work would begin. Their sloppiness began when they realized that their timeline had to be moved up and fast!)

Did DM call her a day or so before and say "hey Mom..mind if I park my trailer in your driveway for a couple days" or was it the reverse "Hey Dellen, why is your trailer in my driveway"

IIRC MB was in with the lawyer getting a Power of Attorney signed for DM the weekend he was arrested, with the truck sitting in her driveway, but neighbours did not notify LE of the trailer until that Sunday.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

We also know the Eliminator was designed to be mobile and was all fueled up.

Why wasn't it where they needed it to be? At the hangar?

We know they had a gun

We know one of them probably did.

and yes we know DM wanted diesel truck that was the same make as his red one.

Yes he was shopping for one, but we also know he already had a perfectly capable truck. Wasn't there talk of entering a second car that year? Maybe TB's truck would allow Smich to be part of a second team?


We all know there has been talk of Millard being cash strapped, but there is a huge difference in not being able to come up with the cash for a million dollar condo and coming up with $25K for a truck. JV said Millard was certainly late paying at times, but he seemed to always get paid. There hasn't been any testimony about Millard not being able to bay his bills and plans were underway to develop the farm property. And bottom line, he could have just used the old gas truck! Was this a big enough issue to kill someone over? And if they wanted the truck, why not go in the middle of the night and hot-wire it?

And I hear you about the chop shop. But what chop shop?

bbm red

I think, they didn't know exactly which one of the truck owners they had contacted would be the victim. May have been IT for example or the next seller who didn't hear the Bates-call because of a nap. The incinerator seemingly was planned for using it at the hangar but before and after should not be seen there.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

I'd like to hear any theories why DM was not arrested on the spot by the detectives that came to talk to him at the hangar. Obviously the decision was made there and then that he was their man, so why did they let him have the afternoon while under surveillance before hey took him down.

Was it to give him some rope to incriminate himself further through his actions, or to possibly give them leads as to who else might be involved?

I just found it strange that LE risked a high danger take down, with innocent members of the public around, rather than arrest him there when he was alone with just SS in the hanger. If LE wanted backup, then could have called them in right away. Just seems to me that they possibly risked public lives, as well as took a slight chance (albeit small) that DM could have slipped away if they lost him while trailing his vehicle.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

Perhaps she's been subpoenaed also by the Crown to testify? Who could those other twenty witnesses be I wonder? MOO.

CN, MM, MB, MWJ or the other Matthews, CB, Scotty, a couple more officers, MS's mother or someone from his family, whoever MS contacted to try and sell the gun to, the "friend" who DM left the toolbox and gun with...? :thinking: MOO.

Also AM, maybe CN's mother/father, bank teller who gave him $3k, forensics who investigated hanger, and CD who I think is in the photo with the toolbox that is in evidence and who was in news footage crying outside the house when MS was arrested

 

[SnooperDuper]

I'd like to hear any theories why DM was not arrested on the spot by the detectives that came to talk to him at the hangar. Obviously the decision was made there and then that he was their man, so why did they let him have the afternoon while under surveillance before hey took him down.

Was it to give him some rope to incriminate himself further through his actions, or to possibly give them leads as to who else might be involved?

I just found it strange that LE risked a high danger take down, with innocent members of the public around, rather than arrest him there when he was alone with just SS in the hanger. If LE wanted backup, then could have called them in right away. Just seems to me that they possibly risked public lives, as well as took a slight chance (albeit small) that DM could have slipped away if they lost him while trailing his vehicle.

They didn't have the warrant for DM's arrest when they came to speak with him at the hangar. They got that while DM was being tailed, after submitting info from their interview at the hangar, and picked him up as soon as it was legal to do so.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

They didn't have the warrant for DM's arrest when they came to speak with him at the hangar. They got that while DM was being tailed, after submitting info from their interview at the hangar, and picked him up as soon as it was legal to do so.

Thanks for that, but it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Since when do LE need a warrant to arrest someone they believe is the killer when they have him where they want him. If I shoot someone on the street and the police show up, they're not going to look at me standing there and say, "well, go for now and when we get the warrant, we'll come see you". No, they are going to arrest me on the spot, warrant or no warrant. Can someone help me understand where the line is drawn here?

IMO, if they needed a warrant there, then there is something wrong. When you have a chance you take it when a killer is at large, and can be safely taken down.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Thanks for that, but it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Since when do LE need a warrant to arrest someone they believe is the killer when they have him where they want him. If I shoot someone on the street and the police show up, they're not going to look at me standing there and say, "well, go for now and when we get the warrant, we'll come see you". No, they are going to arrest me on the spot, warrant or no warrant. Can someone help me understand where the line is drawn here?

IMO, if they needed a warrant there, then there is something wrong. When you have a chance you take it when a killer is at large, and can be safely taken down.

Well they did have him under surveillance from the time they interviewed him straight through to the arrest and charges. I think they probably wanted to go by the book with the arrest/charges because this was such a high profile case.

 

[Sillybilly]

Thanks for that, but it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Since when do LE need a warrant to arrest someone they believe is the killer when they have him where they want him. If I shoot someone on the street and the police show up, they're not going to look at me standing there and say, "well, go for now and when we get the warrant, we'll come see you". No, they are going to arrest me on the spot, warrant or no warrant. Can someone help me understand where the line is drawn here?

IMO, if they needed a warrant there, then there is something wrong. When you have a chance you take it when a killer is at large, and can be safely taken down.

Perhaps LE was hoping that tailing him would lead to Tim's whereabouts, but when they saw him leave the bank, they were concerned he was a flight risk.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

Perhaps LE was hoping that tailing him would lead to Tim's whereabouts, but when they saw him leave the bank, they were concerned he was a flight risk.

would makes sense!

 

[swedie]

Thanks for that, but it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Since when do LE need a warrant to arrest someone they believe is the killer when they have him where they want him. If I shoot someone on the street and the police show up, they're not going to look at me standing there and say, "well, go for now and when we get the warrant, we'll come see you". No, they are going to arrest me on the spot, warrant or no warrant. Can someone help me understand where the line is drawn here?

IMO, if they needed a warrant there, then there is something wrong. When you have a chance you take it when a killer is at large, and can be safely taken down.

The two officers were sent to the hangar to identify DM. They would have needed to report back to their findings and a plan of action needed to be set in place. When they were sent to the hangar doesn't sound like they were certain they had their person. After talking to DM and identifying his ambition tattoo, they were more confident. I assume further information was gained/gathered between the time the two officers visiting to the hangar and his arrest hours later. Also they may have been apprehensive as to who was actually present at the hangar. There was a grey haired man and SS there with him but who knows how many goons DM might have had there just waiting to pounce on LE. More caution to the wind, while LE were there, DM picked up his man purse and flung it over his shoulder. No telling what DM might have been carrying in it. For all the two officers knew, it could have been a gun. LE weren't taking chances when they knew there were other and better options to arrest DM. Keep in mind LE are highly trained at these sort of take downs. Had DM tried to flee, LE were prepared with stun guns. Had he pulled out a gun, LE would have been prepared for that also. JMO.