Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #7

[billandrew]

Lisa Hefner on CHCH news mentioned that a citizen posted info recently on a facebook group, info about what was discussed in court without the jury present. OPP showed up at his house to explain that criminal charges could have been laid against him for doing that.

http://www.chch.com/tim-bosma-trial/

Pretty serious stuff. If I understand the law correctly, violating a publication ban can result in a summary conviction offense charge, which in a criminal case carries a prison sentence of up to 6 months and/or a maximum $5,000 fine.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Lisa Hefner on CHCH news mentioned that a citizen posted info recently on a facebook group, info about what was discussed in court without the jury present. OPP showed up at his house to explain that criminal charges could have been laid against him for doing that.

http://www.chch.com/tim-bosma-trial/

And charges weren't laid because????

Funny she doesn't mention forcible confinement when she discusses that the jury can find one or both guilty of lesser charges. Only that to find them both guilty of first degree murder, the jury would have to find that they both planned the murder and both intended for TB to die.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Regardless of why he bought the incinerator, as far as this current trial goes, you would have to believe he actually planned this murder a year in advance. By the time he paid for the incinerator, the trailer and the delivery, he could have bought the truck. It may have more meaning in a future trial, but in this one, purchasing an incinerator a year earlier does nothing IMO to prove this particular crime was premeditated.

JMO

People say that about the burner phone too - that it was acquired so far in advance that it couldn't possibly be part of the premeditation.

However, keep in mind that DM texted LW2 that he'd put 5 days over the past year into this project of his to get a diesel truck.

LW2: How is your weekend going?
DM: working on trading one of my gas trucks for a diesel.
LW2: How's that progressing?
DM: put about 5 full days into it, over the past 12 months

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/tag/lisa-whidden

 

[Alethea Dice]

People say that about the burner phone too - that it was aquired so far in advance that it couldn't possibly be part of the premeditation.

However, keep in mind that DM texted LW2 that he'd put 5 days over the past year into this project of his to get a diesel truck.



http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/tag/lisa-whidden

The burner phone was only purchased a couple of months prior, in March. And could show intent to steal a truck, but not necessarily premeditated murder. JMO

http://www.chch.com/111085/

Judging by the computer evidence and the dates and times of the truck searches, 5 full days in 12 months looks like a pretty close estimate. The 12 months is a little short, but hard to determine how much time was spent on each search to come up with the 5 full days.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B05DLScRfDmBZk84MzFmVGxhZ1E&usp=drive_web

JMO

 

[billandrew]

However, keep in mind that DM texted LW2 that he'd put 5 days over the past year into this project of his to get a diesel truck.

RSBM. I didn't read very deeply into that message before, but now I kinda see it. He may be cryptically referring to the acquisition of the gun, the incinerator, the burner phone, the repositioning of cameras at the hangar, and all the tools he needed to commit the perfect crime. It may be a stretch given how poorly executed the crime ended up being, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility.

Consider how DM's whole life revolved around his pet projects. Working on cars, wanting to build electric vehicles, wanting to build his dream house at the farm. Even in his jailhouse interview he stated “I’ve been thinking about a project on submarine living spaces." Perhaps it's not so much of a stretch to think that the theft of a 3500 Dodge Ram, with a murder attached, was just another one of his "projects".

 

[Bob69]

Ive been a lurker from day one and I'd like to add my two cents..

No one has reiterated the cameras being repositioned at the hanger days before this crime. That speaks volumes to premeditation and something dirty about to happen.

I also feel that the incinerator at the barn makes for an ideal location to load. No you don't need to worry about a body being noticed in the truck. I bet 99.9999℅ of the population if seeing the incinerater would not know what it was, specially one on a trailer. Most would see a "BBQ". They had no worries about raising suspicion towing it around town.

I laughed when MS worked for only half a day with V and never came back. Neither of these losers worked an honest day in their life.

This is all MOO.

Back to lurking

 

[ABro]

Regardless of why he bought the incinerator, as far as this current trial goes, you would have to believe he actually planned this murder a year in advance. By the time he paid for the incinerator, the trailer and the delivery, he could have bought the truck. It may have more meaning in a future trial, but in this one, purchasing an incinerator a year earlier does nothing IMO to prove this particular crime was premeditated.

JMO

Speaking of keeping an open mind, you pretty much spent three full years telling everyone how you didn't believe the incinerator was used in the crime. Have you changed your mind on that issue or still sticking with your theories?

 

[qdm]

As I am reading thru the pages one thing keeps being brought up and that is: The main reason for this happening is for the truck, why have a bloodletting in a vehicle you needed? To me it screams: we are in it for the kill. Why invest 20,000 on a incinerator for a one time possibility of an "accident" happening? Why have a concealed pistol? Why have two guys on the road test, when one could have waited at the suv? ex: Take the truck and/or tim ..drive 5-10kms and kick him out and catch up to MS at the SUV? Because both wanted in on murder! It shows because they didn't care about the interior of the truck. They had the red ram to get an interior out of (and vin & windsheild) They only needed to get rid of the obvious blood evidence. After all, It would raise less suspicion with one guy coming up the driveway. Why have burner phones? If they were after just the truck they could have called from any public phone. or: On kijiji, craigslist, Autotrader etc there are ads with the phone number stated in the ad and googling the # would give you a name and/or address. Go at night and collect the truck and the local LE wouldn't even bat an eye. True, DM wanted (not needed) a truck, but these two were gearing up for something more judging by their tool cache. IMO Dm is a controlling physcopath and MS is a wanna be tough guy gang banger and they were looking for blood and TB was just the beginning. They did not count on the amount of publicity that Tim being missing would create since LB seemed so easy and WM was so easily passed off as a suicide. Up until Tim, these guys thought they were brilliant and LE was a bunch of keystone cops. DM is charged in 3 murders, MS in two. These guys were on a path and it stopped at Tim.

imo

 

[MsSherlock]

The burner phone was only purchased a couple of months prior, in March. And could show intent to steal a truck, but not necessarily premeditated murder. JMO

http://www.chch.com/111085/

Judging by the computer evidence and the dates and times of the truck searches, 5 full days in 12 months looks like a pretty close estimate. The 12 months is a little short, but hard to determine how much time was spent on each search to come up with the 5 full days.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B05DLScRfDmBZk84MzFmVGxhZ1E&usp=drive_web

JMO

Sorry, but I whenever I read that "put 5 days into it over the past year" I can't help but shake my head. He says it like it's been some huge undertaking when it actually represents only 1.4% of his time over a year. Guess to a guy who never really had a job, those 5 days packed a punch. And he's saying it to LW2 who has probably spent more than 5 hours over the past week showing his condo. The guy is so delusional. MOO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Speaking of keeping an open mind, you pretty much spent three full years telling everyone how you didn't believe the incinerator was used in the crime. Have you changed your mind on that issue or still sticking with your theories?

Well, I think that's quite the exaggeration since those conversations were a fairly long while ago and it still now hasn't been 3 full years since TB went on that test drive. But to answer your question, it does now appear that the incinerator was used. Though I still wonder how they were able to positively identify him so quickly when none of the remains could be positively matched to him. I don't think everything else had been analyzed yet at that point - the blood spots, the videos, etc. - could be wrong and they may have all been completed extremely fast. I guess it doesn't matter much any more how they knew immediately once they found the incinerator.

I don't remember having any particular "theories", only that there were several mentioned that I could see as possibilities. I do remember some times of frustration in having my words and meanings twisted and taking a few breaks because of it. Nice to see you're keeping track though.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Sorry, but I whenever I read that "put 5 days into it over the past year" I can't help but shake my head. He says it like it's been some huge undertaking when it actually represents only 1.4% of his time over a year. Guess to a guy who never really had a job, those 5 days packed a punch. And he's saying it to LW2 who has probably spent more than 5 hours over the past week showing his condo. The guy is so delusional. MOO

Well, I read it that he hadn't put a lot of effort into it, not that it was a big deal, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Alethea Dice]

As I am reading thru the pages one thing keeps being brought up and that is: The main reason for this happening is for the truck, why have a bloodletting in a vehicle you needed? To me it screams: we are in it for the kill. Why invest 20,000 on a incinerator for a one time possibility of an "accident" happening? Why have a concealed pistol? Why have two guys on the road test, when one could have waited at the suv? ex: Take the truck and/or tim ..drive 5-10kms and kick him out and catch up to MS at the SUV? Because both wanted in on murder! It shows because they didn't care about the interior of the truck. They had the red ram to get an interior out of (and vin & windsheild) They only needed to get rid of the obvious blood evidence. After all, It would raise less suspicion with one guy coming up the driveway. Why have burner phones? If they were after just the truck they could have called from any public phone. or: On kijiji, craigslist, Autotrader etc there are ads with the phone number stated in the ad and googling the # would give you a name and/or address. Go at night and collect the truck and the local LE wouldn't even bat an eye. True, DM wanted (not needed) a truck, but these two were gearing up for something more judging by their tool cache. IMO Dm is a controlling physcopath and MS is a wanna be tough guy gang banger and they were looking for blood and TB was just the beginning. They did not count on the amount of publicity that Tim being missing would create since LB seemed so easy and WM was so easily passed off as a suicide. Up until Tim, these guys thought they were brilliant and LE was a bunch of keystone cops. DM is charged in 3 murders, MS in two. These guys were on a path and it stopped at Tim.

imo

If MS is a "wanna be tough guy gang banger", there would be your answer in why they had a concealed pistol. Take these guys for instance. Do you think these tough guys were planning a murder when they were sitting in their car with a loaded illegal weapon checking out their stolen cell phone? That type just likes to carry around loaded guns on the off chance they need to protect themselves, ya know. JMO

http://globalnews.ca/news/2055266/teen-fatally-shot-in-london-ont-after-tracking-lost-cellphone/

 

[MsSherlock]

As I am reading thru the pages one thing keeps being brought up and that is: The main reason for this happening is for the truck, why have a bloodletting in a vehicle you needed? To me it screams: we are in it for the kill. Why invest 20,000 on a incinerator for a one time possibility of an "accident" happening? Why have a concealed pistol? Why have two guys on the road test, when one could have waited at the suv? ex: Take the truck and/or tim ..drive 5-10kms and kick him out and catch up to MS at the SUV? Because both wanted in on murder! It shows because they didn't care about the interior of the truck. They had the red ram to get an interior out of (and vin & windsheild) They only needed to get rid of the obvious blood evidence. After all, It would raise less suspicion with one guy coming up the driveway. Why have burner phones? If they were after just the truck they could have called from any public phone. or: On kijiji, craigslist, Autotrader etc there are ads with the phone number stated in the ad and googling the # would give you a name and/or address. Go at night and collect the truck and the local LE wouldn't even bat an eye. True, DM wanted (not needed) a truck, but these two were gearing up for something more judging by their tool cache. IMO Dm is a controlling physcopath and MS is a wanna be tough guy gang banger and they were looking for blood and TB was just the beginning. They did not count on the amount of publicity that Tim being missing would create since LB seemed so easy and WM was so easily passed off as a suicide. Up until Tim, these guys thought they were brilliant and LE was a bunch of keystone cops. DM is charged in 3 murders, MS in two. These guys were on a path and it stopped at Tim.

imo

I so agree with you. IMO, these guys never intended for the owner of the truck to walk away alive. SB said the “The devil led the vilest form of evil down my driveway and it smiled at me before taking Tim away from me." IMO, she was 100% correct. As posters have said before- they didn't take a loaded gun if they weren't planning on using it. A fake gun would have probably been sufficient for TB to exit the truck on his own. They could have had the truck hidden in the hangar before TB could have even gotten to a phone. There was no reason for TB to die if they were just stealing the truck. MOO

 

[ArianeEmory]

For anyone that doesn't see this a premeditated murder, do you have an explanation as to why he purchased an incinerator?

I know there's been some timeline speculation that may throw it off, but I still lean towards the incinerator having been bought for LB. Or possibly removing LB's body was enough hassle that he decided to streamline the process for whomever came next. He didn't need to cremate WM, but it's pretty clear he'd established a pattern of the way he worked to get what he wanted in life.

Short version: I think the incinerator was bought to incinerate the bodies of murder victims.

I don't know that *at the time* he had hatched the full plan that took Tim Bosma's life. But I think it shows intent to use murder as a tool in his life-skills playbook.

No one has shown any actual evidence of it being used for anything else.

And aimed at no one in particular, but yes, those of us with May 2013 join dates (and earlier) have very good memories for the claims that were made, because they were made loudly, frequently, and unrelentingly, with no consideration given for other theories.

 

[MsSherlock]

If MS is a "wanna be tough guy gang banger", there would be your answer in why they had a concealed pistol. Take these guys for instance. Do you think these tough guys were planning a murder when they were sitting in their car with a loaded illegal weapon checking out their stolen cell phone? That type just likes to carry around loaded guns on the off chance they need to protect themselves, ya know. JMO

http://globalnews.ca/news/2055266/teen-fatally-shot-in-london-ont-after-tracking-lost-cellphone/

I don't think we can forget the fact that DM and MS travelled all the way from Oakville to Ancaster to commit this crime. They saw his wife- his friend. They stood in front of his house. I wonder if they knew he had a little girl? Yet they continued and never looked back. I wonder if they paused for reflection while they were tending to the incinerator that night? DM's pathetic text to SS as he was moving the truck to Kleinburg "I can't stop thinking about what that family is going through,"- disgusting and vile.

IMO, LE have done a brilliant job collecting and presenting the evidence and these 2 psycho's are going away for the rest of their lives, which is a good thing because they won't have the opportunity to kill anyone else...just for kicks. MOO

 

[billandrew]

I don't think we can forget the fact that DM and MS travelled all the way from Oakville to Ancaster to commit this crime. They saw his wife- his friend. They stood in front of his house. I wonder if they knew he had a little girl? Yet they continued and never looked back. I wonder if they paused for reflection while they were tending to the incinerator that night? DM's pathetic text to SS as he was moving the truck to Kleinburg "I can't stop thinking about what that family is going through,"- disgusting and vile.

IMO, LE have done a brilliant job collecting and presenting the evidence and these 2 psycho's are going away for the rest of their lives, which is a good thing because they won't have the opportunity to kill anyone else...just for kicks. MOO

The "what truck?" message is what does it for me. He's like "I feel so bad for that family. I want to take it back, but I'm afraid that won't be good for me, so... what truck?" He so easily dismisses TB's family, just like he didn't think twice about taking TB's life. Words cannot describe the vileness and the selfishness. How certain people around DM were so blind to it, willfully or not, also frightens me. They are still out there, bein' blind... MOO

 

[hopingforjustice]

I so agree with you. IMO, these guys never intended for the owner of the truck to walk away alive. SB said the “The devil led the vilest form of evil down my driveway and it smiled at me before taking Tim away from me." IMO, she was 100% correct. As posters have said before- they didn't take a loaded gun if they weren't planning on using it. A fake gun would have probably been sufficient for TB to exit the truck on his own. They could have had the truck hidden in the hangar before TB could have even gotten to a phone. There was no reason for TB to die if they were just stealing the truck. MOO

bbm

And that is what makes me sick to my stomach.

 

[mskrisc]

I wonder about MB:

- had the truck parked at her house after DM's arrest and did not inform LE
- involved in the "beyond smelly" real estate deals
- $10k payout to LW2

I wonder if MB was so fervent in her support of her son that she crossed a line? We don't know all of what she was up to, but on the surface, she seems to have been rather...obstructionist?

At the very least an Enabler! Guilt from being an absentee parent? DM has a bad case of Affluenza JMO

 

[mskrisc]

Let's not confuse WS forum with the courtroom.

I believe in due legal process for the accused in the courts. WS forum members are not the jury, and we are not in the courts. Here, we can voice our (possibly biased) opinions and share our thoughts on the case based on evidence presented and still to come. These opinions vary between members, and so far include both sympathy for the victims, and (fewer members) sympathy for the accused. Not surprising, given that we all bring some personal bias, myself included.

I am confident that both DM and MS are getting the vigorous defense to which they are entitled to in our legal system. I do not think this defense will help them avoid being convicted of the crimes they are guilty of, in spite of the evidence that is legally suppressed by defense challenges. My opinion is based on the totality of allowed evidence presented this far, combined with the evidence that is still to come.

I stand solidly reserving my sympathy for the victims, unabashed. I have confidence in the police, crown and judicial system that the accused will be found guilty of the crimes they are guilty of, be that first or second degree murder. The direct indictment shows that not only the police believe that first degree murder was committed, but the crown believes that the charges will result in convictions. Although here on WS many are finding them guilty without a trial, in the courtroom they are getting a fair and impartial trial.

I have zero sympathy for either accused. As I am not on the jury, I can say that prior to hearing the defense. But I will still listen to the defense portion of the trial with interest.


MOO

Well said!

 

[MsSherlock]

bbm

And that is what makes me sick to my stomach.

You've just made me realize why I feel the way I do. Why I've spent almost 3 years on this forum trying to wrap my head around this senseless crime and trying to keep my cool regardless of some of the bizarre things that have been suggested. I think a lot of us just wanted to make sure this was about the murder of TB and nothing to do with whether or not DM could afford to buy a truck.

Normally, I'm the first person to wave the "right to a fair trial" flag, but right from the get go this murder reeked of everything that's unfolding at the trial. The trial is just confirming our worse fears. A happy go lucky TB, excited about selling his truck, jumping in the passenger seat with nothing on his mind but getting it sold and murdered within minutes of leaving his driveway. Then the body of this hardworking and much loved man was tossed into an incinerator by 2 psycho's and burned like it was a bag of garbage. Flames illuminating the side of the hangar while they kept watch over the Eliminator as it incinerated their victim.

There's no wonder why LE have worked so hard on this case. A LE friend of mine who spent 7 years on HPS homicide says he's never seen such a well run investigation and I trust his judgement on this. DM & MS are now having their day(s) in Court. I have faith in the system- justice will be served. MOO