Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #7

[swedie]

Did cops find anything earth shattering on that phone? No. So was she trying to hide evidence or was she simply upset that she was cuffed and her phone was being confiscated despite the fact that she had done absolutely nothing wrong?

IMO, Yes, LE did find some pretty damaging information of her phone. Apparently LW was trying to hide evidence from LE. Police don't typically arrest cooperating people, of course unless they know the person has committed a crime or they have a strong inkling the person committed a crime.

I imagine it went something like this; LE showed up, asked her if she knew anything about the TB case, and if she knew anyone by the name of DM. We don't know if she admitted to one or both, but we do know she refused to turn over her cell phone to LE, allowing them to check out. Had she turned it over to them then and there, they would have read her texts from DM, possibly asked her what was meant by them, took notes, handed her phone back to her along with a business card, telling her if they had further questions, they would be in touch, or advising her that if she had further information, to contact LE. Or depending on the information LE found on her phone, LE may have asked her to come down to the station and answer questions to assist in their investigation of TB.

OBVIOUSLY she was "haughty" and uncooperative with LE when they showed up to talk to her. Her lack of respect for authorities led to her being cuffed and arrested. IMO her uncooperative "haughty" personality with LE is what caused her to bleed...no ones fault but her own. She resisted arrest plan and simple and LE had to take matters into their own hands, legally and rightfully so. Could it be she still has a "bee in her bonnet" because she was charged with resisting arrest, assaulting a police officer, or worst? JMHO.

 

[Arnie M]

Well, I think that's quite the exaggeration since those conversations were a fairly long while ago and it still now hasn't been 3 full years since TB went on that test drive. But to answer your question, it does now appear that the incinerator was used. Though I still wonder how they were able to positively identify him so quickly when none of the remains could be positively matched to him. I don't think everything else had been analyzed yet at that point - the blood spots, the videos, etc. - could be wrong and they may have all been completed extremely fast. I guess it doesn't matter much any more how they knew immediately once they found the incinerator.

I don't remember having any particular "theories", only that there were several mentioned that I could see as possibilities. I do remember some times of frustration in having my words and meanings twisted and taking a few breaks because of it. Nice to see you're keeping track though.

If MS and DM gave a full confession tomorrow , admitted shooting , incineration and pre-planning .... would you accept that ? Or would you claim it was a false confession or something ??

 

[swedie]

Again, your argument makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. She has not given a statement to anybody. Why on gods earth would she lie about that text when she knew the following text specified the meaning of that text. I mean seriously, if you have no idea that I'm involved in crime and I text you "I'm hot, don't come around today", what would be your first thought? Does this guy have a fever? Probably.

Most people in their teens, twenties, thirties and then some know what "hot" means in the way DM was meaning it. Especially when you throw in the other text messages. Respectfully but sorry...I'm just not buying the "fever" excuse. I doubt the jurors will either. Then again, her "haughty" attitude on the stand probably made more of an impact on the jurors than hers and DM's text messaging evidence did. JMO

 

[deugirtni]

And charges weren't laid because????

Funny she doesn't mention forcible confinement when she discusses that the jury can find one or both guilty of lesser charges. Only that to find them both guilty of first degree murder, the jury would have to find that they both planned the murder and both intended for TB to die.

Lisa Hepfner is a TV journalist, not a lawyer. If the forcible confinement aspect of first degree murder charges is relevant for this case, the judge will duly instruct the jury before their deliberations. Will be interesting to hear what the basis for first degree convictions will be in this case.

 

[MsSherlock]

If MS and DM gave a full confession tomorrow , admitted shooting , incineration and pre-planning .... would you accept that ? Or would you claim it was a false confession or something ??

The Halo Effect is powerful. IMO, some would grasp at nefarious reasons behind the confession itself. Personally, I thought by now we had seen it all. Good looking PB, successful RW, wealthy RP-evil comes in all types of packages and it always has. If the past has taught us anything, it's that wealth doesn't matter. MOO
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_and_Loeb

 

[Arnie M]

You've just made me realize why I feel the way I do. Why I've spent almost 3 years on this forum trying to wrap my head around this senseless crime and trying to keep my cool regardless of some of the bizarre things that have been suggested. I think a lot of us just wanted to make sure this was about the murder of TB and nothing to do with whether or not DM could afford to buy a truck.

Normally, I'm the first person to wave the "right to a fair trial" flag, but right from the get go this murder reeked of everything that's unfolding at the trial. The trial is just confirming our worse fears. A happy go lucky TB, excited about selling his truck, jumping in the passenger seat with nothing on his mind but getting it sold and murdered within minutes of leaving his driveway. Then the body of this hardworking and much loved man was tossed into an incinerator by 2 psycho's and burned like it was a bag of garbage. Flames illuminating the side of the hangar while they kept watch over the Eliminator as it incinerated their victim.

There's no wonder why LE have worked so hard on this case. A LE friend of mine who spent 7 years on HPS homicide says he's never seen such a well run investigation and I trust his judgement on this. DM & MS are now having their day(s) in Court. I have faith in the system- justice will be served. MOO

Me too .... Shades of Russell Williams .... 80 thefts , couple of rape-murders ... those were just routine days for him .... when he was caught and arrested his only concern was for his cat and his wife's new house being pried apart by police .

 

[swedie]

What I find most frustrating about this entire trial is the overwhelming evidence, yet DM and MS are determined to drag it out through court, every last horrible detail of Tim Bosma's death.

Why they feel that they are "entitled" to plead not guilty is pure selfishness.

I would have thought that by this point in the trial, they would have changed their plea to guilty and ended the trial.

Just MOO...

:wagon:
Yes you're right Georgeo, it is frustrating for some of us to see all this overwhelming evidence and know they pled not guilty. Think about all the evidence the defense managed to have thrown out. One has to wonder what the jurors are thinking.

But, when you put yourself in the two accused shoes, what do they have to lose by pleading not guilty? Not only that, it gets them months out of their cells to attend a multitude of court dates. Better than sitting in a 7'X9' cell re-enact movies in their heads, devising business ideas, reading, practising yoga, thinking of plans which will likely never reach fruition. Plus it gives them that one in a million chance they could be found not guilty...which I highly doubt will happen, but hey, whatever floats their boats. MOO.

That last sentence....DM's life is in suspension. Does he really believe his family's lives are also still because he's not in their lives? I would hope and think they have moved on after three years...at least RB seems to have. The accused lives won't be in suspension for much longer. I wonder if they have been preparing themselves for the possibility this could be the rest of their lives? Again JMO.

Now he spends his days in his own mind, he says. He volunteered to work in the prison kitchen, “but they won’t let me.” He doesn’t elaborate.

His days in solitary are spent reading and practising yoga.

“I spend time outside the cell in my head,” he says. “I re-enact movies in my head. It was Jurassic Park last night.”

And he devises business ideas.

At the moment, he’s onto an idea about which he’s gained some valuable real-life experience in jail: living in small quarters.

“I’ve been thinking about a project on submarine living spaces. I spend my time thinking, reading, doing things that are useful.”

On his bedside at the moment is the 19th-century book On War by Carl von Clausewitz.

His life, and that of his family, is in suspension, he says.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...didnt_kill_tim_bosma_exclusive_interview.html

 

[swedie]

Yes it does. He wanted the truck, he went to steal it and TB accidentally got killed. Happens every day sorry to say.

TB accidentally got killed, is that what you believe happened andreww? Do you believe DM accidentally brought his gun along for the ride also? A concealed and loaded gun at that. MOO.

 

[swedie]

Would you shoot someone in your brand new truck? Seriously, every single piece of forensic evidence is now forever held in that truck. Why not walk him in to the woods and shoot him? Doesn't make sense at all.

<modsnip>
As for the cheating thing, you've got it wrong, nobody cares.

Three murders were carried out by DM for the thrill he wanted. Each one he had something to gain. In DM's warped mind and way of thinking, "The cost of a bullet, new passenger window and a couple of seats from the wrecking yard, would be peanuts when he got a $25k truck for a steal." It all makes sense thankfully. MOO.

 

[swedie]

I'm not denying he went to steal the truck. He almost certainly did. The thing that most people are unwilling to accept is that guns a more often used for their threat value than they are as an actual weapon. Maybe the gun was loaded just as a last resort in case things went south? Maybe there never was a plan to kill anybody? Millard and Smich had no problem letting Bosma's wife and neighbour see them, so what was the need to kill Tim? There are already two eyewitness' to a truck theft. Why on earth would you turn it in to a murder?

BBM - That's premeditated thinking then isn't it?! "Let me put a bullet into the gun just in case things go south... as in, I might just decide to shoot the owner of the truck I want to steal." Pffftt.

Why murder your own father, in your own house leaving blood and evidence behind? In a house you plan on living in for perhaps the rest of your life. We've seen what became of that "dream house." Same sh@t, different place. MOO.

 

[MsSherlock]

Three murders were carried out by DM for the thrill he wanted. Each one he had something to gain. In DM's warped mind and way of thinking, "The cost of a bullet, new passenger window and a couple of seats from the wrecking yard, would be peanuts when he got a $25k truck for a steal." It all makes sense thankfully. MOO.

And he was the "Boss". People needed him to get paid for doing things he needed to get done, they needed him for the opportunities he could give them-like cool cars, access to his mechanics, rides, drugs, guns, trips, adventures, real estate listings, a place to live. He was invincible and untouchable. MOO

 

[swedie]

And he was the "Boss". People needed him to get paid for doing things he needed to get done, they needed him for the opportunities he could give them-like cool cars, access to his mechanics, rides, drugs, guns, trips, adventures, real estate listings, a place to live. He was invincible and untouchable. MOO

You're absolutely right MsSherlock. This is what many of us have considered from day one. These people were only his "friends" because of what they could gain from DM. DM used them all to do his dirty and/or illegal work. You play with fire, you're eventually going to get burned. DM's evil and greedy actions burned many people and some should be thanking their lucky stars they weren't delivered to the same fate as TB.

This is what I find so hard to understand, why the Crown has had a couple of witnesses who have taken the stand and still seem to feel the need to be evasive, as if they are still trying to cover DM's hiney. It's like they are lying or covering up for someone (DM) who has put their hiney in the hot seat they are sitting in. :gaah: Don't they realize DM isn't going anywhere any time soon, if at all? Maybe they're looking forward to prison tea time/visiting hours with him soon. It's been a few years since they've seen and chatted with their ol' pal don'tcha know. Maybe they missed the memo: "The Well Has Run Dry." :dunno: MOO.

 

[andreww]

As much as my thinking is quite black and white (grew up in a home with many debates, i learned at a young age that if you are going to argue, make sure you argue with facts). So, can someone here please enlighten me with the "shade of grey".
If all of this truck theft, killing of TB, using the Eliminator, stripping down the truck, lying to employee about the purchase of the truck, hiding the truck in mom's driveway, telling real estate lady you think you have been set up, etc...if all of this wasn't a plan and ***** just went wrong, why not go directly to LE and speak the truth from the start? Perhaps stop the madness at lying to the employee, go to LE, tell the truth, spare the family the agony of all the crap they have been through. This is the grey area I find hard to wrap my mind around...anyone care to shed light into my "mindfulness"

Here's a bit of advice. If you are ever in this kind of situation, never go to the police and try and work it out. EVER!!

I know we have been told since we were kids that the police are our friends and are there to help us. Simply not true if you are involved in a crime. They will be nice to you, act like they are helping you, but in the end their objective is to lay the maximum charge the law allows against you.

If you are in trouble, see a lawyer.

 

[andreww]

TB accidentally got killed, is that what you believe happened andreww? Do you believe DM accidentally brought his gun along for the ride also? A concealed and loaded gun at that. MOO.

Yes, everybody that commits armed robbery is actually intending to kill someone.

 

[andreww]

Three murders were carried out by DM for the thrill he wanted. Each one he had something to gain. In DM's warped mind and way of thinking, "The cost of a bullet, new passenger window and a couple of seats from the wrecking yard, would be peanuts when he got a $25k truck for a steal." It all makes sense thankfully. MOO.

Wow, you actually want to convict him based on two murders that you really know nothing about and he hasn't been tried for?

Sorry, I base my opinions only on what the jury hears.

 

[andreww]

BBM - That's premeditated thinking then isn't it?! "Let me put a bullet into the gun just in case things go south... as in, I might just decide to shoot the owner of the truck I want to steal." Pffftt.

Why murder your own father, in your own house leaving blood and evidence behind? In a house you plan on living in for perhaps the rest of your life. We've seen what became of that "dream house." Same sh@t, different place. MOO.

You have no idea whether DM killed
WM. LE originally deemed this a suicide so it will be interesting to see if that one ever goes to trial. But let's not act like he's already been convicted shall we?

But even if he did do it, the intent was to make it look like a suicide. He wasn't attempting to hide the body or the crime scene. It's a silly argument.

 

[Tealgrove]

I'm looking forward to new testimony and evidence today. I think the Easter Break and no jury days have let our minds wander a bit much.

Time to focus on the facts and see this through.

 

[Inspector_North]

I could understand the TB truck being present at the hanger if it was just a theft. But the fact the truck was on the tarp on the 8th for everyone to see speaks volumes of DM's bold plan.

As of the morning of the 8th, when DM thought he had gotten away with phase 1, he started on phase 2. He had SS order the equipment needed to make the parts swap. He had SS strip the truck for painting, and he even started the process for an urgent paint job appointment.

Simply putting the truck in the trailer at the hanger for a few cooling off days would have prevented anyone from seeing the truck. However, DM was moving ahead with his plan to get his new truck ready, and by doing so speaks volumes that murder was part of it.

He did indicate to JV that he needed the truck for 10 or so days. So the rushed phase 2 was always in the plan, just like the murder.

MOO

 

[Inspector_North]

You have no idea whether DM killed
WM. LE originally deemed this a suicide so it will be interesting to see if that one ever goes to trial. But let's not act like he's already been convicted shall we?

But even if he did do it, the intent was to make it look like a suicide. He wasn't attempting to hide the body or the crime scene. It's a silly argument.

Did we not hear that LE tracked the gun used on WM to someone who sold it to DM?

 

[ArianeEmory]

You have no idea whether DM killed
WM. LE originally deemed this a suicide so it will be interesting to see if that one ever goes to trial. But let's not act like he's already been convicted shall we?

But even if he did do it, the intent was to make it look like a suicide. He wasn't attempting to hide the body or the crime scene. It's a silly argument.

Just as an aside, there's no difference between having the opinion that DM killed WM and having the opinion that DM "accidentally" killed TB, which you stated yesterday with the same degree of confidence.