Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #8

[Kamille]

One thing I am curious about regarding the hangar DVR video evidence is that either they never used that entrance where the interior camera was pointed again, or the DVR was disconnected that night (May 6/early May 7th) after they went into the building and the footage that we did see was taken. Otherwise, why wouldn't we be seeing more video of activity at that door? So perhaps DM disconnected it and was waiting for instructions on how to erase it before hooking it back up again? Then on the 9th when he got spooked, he removed it altogether but had CN hold on to it until CD could erase and then reinstall it?

MOO

 

[Abitcountry]

From the DVR's user manual:

http://vedelemabc.hu/uploads/download/212901053654d8b568da68b.pdf

• 
  [*=1]Supports two-way audio function
  
  [*=1]Supports event log recording and viewing, unlimited number of events
  

​

Has there been any previous discussion of audio from the DVR evidence? I imagine the event log would hold much information regarding changing operating parameters.

On an unrelated note, does anyone know what happened to Pedo? Was he in the SUV when DM was arrested? Just curious.

Now check out the iPad or phone app and try to tell me that SS did not take a wee peek at what was going on....hell, with all the adjustments you can do and audio too who needs Netflix.......He could have been on that thing for hours and who would notice or think to look up if it moved---bet for the most part people pretty much forgot it was there.....until your 'hot' that is and the suits are on your tail

 

[Kamille]

I think the Roseville must have been in MB's name as well. She is the one who applied for a permit for a building on farm. I don't believe the township would entertain an application from someone who wasn't at least a part owner.. But I could be wrong

From Swedie's witness list.

Darryl Denny - Chief Building Official May 2013, building application submitted for shop to be built on DM's farmland. Signature on application was M. Burns.

I don't believe the building permit applicant has to be the property owner, although the owner's information must also be on the form.

http://www.northdumfries.ca/en/resources/PermitApplicationForm.pdf

MOO

 

[Abitcountry]

One thing I am curious about regarding the DVR video evidence is that either they never used that entrance where the interior camera was pointed again, or the DVR was disconnected that night after they went into the building. Otherwise, why wouldn't we be seeing more video of activity at that door? So perhaps DM disconnected it and was waiting for instructions to erase before hooking it back up again? Then on the 9th when he got spooked, he removed it altogether but had CN hold on to it until CD could erase and then reinstall it?

MOO

Could it be that the court was only shown one small clip of the video from the DVR namely DM & MS entering he hangar to establish their presence there and the time they entered. I do not recall any other mention of what may have been on the tapes from that particular DVR....we know it was literally removed from the building by DM and hidden by CN but there has been no mention of any other recordings that it may hold. Was it motion activated...

 

[Kamille]

Now check out the iPad or phone app and try to tell me that SS did not take a wee peek at what was going on....hell, with all the adjustments you can do and audio too who needs Netflix.......He could have been on that thing for hours and who would notice or think to look up if it moved---bet for the most part people pretty much forgot it was there.....until your 'hot' that is and the suits are on your tail

It appears that there is a wall on either side of that camera so what would he have been able to see anyway? :waitasec:

I do not believe that he even thought about it or probably even knew how to use the app. It just became something convenient for the defense to use to prove that if anything nefarious was going on in the hangar, then SS would be able to see it. Of course it was not proven just what area he'd be able to see. Where are the interior pics of the hangar showing the location of that camera and what it could even pan on if it was hooked up to panoramic viewing?

Lots of stuff being thrown around by the defense without anything to back it up so far. It will be interesting to see if they elaborate on any of this stuff when it's their turn to present a case.

MOO

 

[mskrisc]

There is no evidence that there were any other stolen vehicles in the hangar other than MM's motorcycle and trailer. The initial reports of what appeared to be stolen vehicles and a "chop shop" seem to have morphed into LE testimony that DM and Millard companies owned about 30 active and inactive vehicles. I believe it was eventually reported that less than 10 vehicles were actually found in the hangar.

We know the 2 Jeeps. the kit car, the chevy Nova and the Camaro were likely in there. That's 5 already.

MOO

IMO and going back to articles from 3 years ago now, the Hanger was run as a chop shop. I'm suspicious as to why all the articles have suddenly disappeared with the publication ban. My guess, LE doesn't want this case tainted in any way and once DM stands trial for all 3 murders, we will hear the truth about the chop shop.

 

[Kamille]

Could it be that the court was only shown one small clip of the video from the DVR namely DM & MS entering he hangar to establish their presence there and the time they entered. I do not recall any other mention of what may have been on the tapes from that particular DVR....we know it was literally removed from the building by DM and hidden by CN but there has been no mention of any other recordings that it may hold. Was it motion activated...

That's exactly my point. If they exited the building via that door that night. Or entered it via that door the next night when they were picking up the incinerator, there should be more damning video evidence. So either they never went in that direction or used that entrance/exit again during the commission of this crime, or the DVR was unplugged/disconnected that first night after they used that doorway to enter the hangar.

MOO

 

[Abitcountry]

I think the Roseville must have been in MB's name as well. She is the one who applied for a permit for a building on farm. I don't believe the township would entertain an application from someone who wasn't at least a part owner.. But I could be wrong

From Swedie's witness list.

Darryl Denny - Chief Building Official May 2013, building application submitted for shop to be built on DM's farmland. Signature on application was M. Burns.

I recall that within days of his arrest, DM was having his first lawyer do conveyances to get his property into his mother's name to protect it....and if I am not mistaken, the farm on Roseville Road was one of those transfer to her name. There were articles that I read about the same time on the business of fraudulent conveyances as well.

 

[Kamille]

IMO and going back to articles from 3 years ago now, the Hanger was run as a chop shop. I'm suspicious as to why all the articles have suddenly disappeared with the publication ban. My guess, LE doesn't want this case tainted in any way and once DM stands trial for all 3 murders, we will hear the truth about the chop shop.

The articles came out on May 31, 2013. They are still there. They say that LE "suspected" that the less than 10 vehicles, probably plus all the other trailers, sea doos, auto parts, wood chipper...etc. that are not related to an airline business, indicated that there was a chop shop being run there. We have now heard evidence that they were regular customers of PURCHASING auto parts, not selling them.

I don't understand why we wouldn't think that if there was shop full of stolen vehicles, that would be the actual MOTIVE in this crime and would be a huge part of the Crown's case? Because that would mean that stealing vehicles is what they do, therefore who cares if DM could afford them, he still stole a bunch of them. But that does not appear to be the case once LE investigated. The less than 10 vehicles belonged to DM. Some of the other stuff may be in question, but it does not appear that anyone was going around car jacking vehicles at gunpoint and storing them at the hangar to sell them off for parts.

MOO

Police say they've found evidence that suggests a hangar at the Region of Waterloo International Airport owned by Dellen Millard was being used as a giant "chop shop" for stolen vehicles.

"I can confirm that the motorcycle written about was recovered in the hangar by the Hamilton police. There were a number of vehicles and/or parts found in the hangar and this remains under investigation," Constable Debbie McGreal-Dinning said in an email.

Police say they're still trying to track down owners of the discovered vehicles, putting the number found at fewer than 10.

When they say "giant" chop shop, they are talking about the size of the building, not the size of the "operation". And after investigating, it was obviously discovered that the only stolen vehicle was MM's Harley, which was the by product of the theft of his trailer, which is actually what they were after IMO. I'll bet the original trailer that TB's truck was found in was stolen before it was modified into a closed trailer. MOO

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3250204-murder-suspect-s-waterloo-hangar-set-up-as-chop-shop-/

 

[MsSherlock]

I think the Roseville must have been in MB's name as well. She is the one who applied for a permit for a building on farm. I don't believe the township would entertain an application from someone who wasn't at least a part owner.. But I could be wrong

From Swedie's witness list.

Darryl Denny - Chief Building Official May 2013, building application submitted for shop to be built on DM's farmland. Signature on application was M. Burns.

The building permit for the shed was interesting. The application was made on April 23/13, just 2 weeks before TB's murder. Applications just don't happen overnight. They'd have to have an application filled out, a full set of plans for the building, hydro, water source, etc plus a plot plan indicating where the structure was going to be. It's certainly reasonable to think the whole process started weeks prior. MB's name on the application only meant that she was acting as Agent for DB in the application process.

The Roseville farm was registered to DM and was never transferred to MB with the other properties; however the POA would have allowed her to dispose of it. We do know that WM's accountants were causing problems for DM around that same time (DM texts to LW2) and DM was having problems securing a mortgage for the Distillery Condo. IMO, his decision to kill WM was having some unexpected and severe financial consequences. MOO

People have questioned WM's decision to invest in the hangar. Maybe he felt that it was a better option than having DM rip thru 500K of his money every year? Maybe he thought it would make DM finally grow up and take financial responsibility? RIP WM. I don't think you ever saw this coming.

"The day’s first witness was Darryl Denny, the chief building official of North Dumfries.
Denny told the court about an application to build a drive shed – typically used to store tractors and other farm equipment – on Millard’s Roseville Road farm. The application was dated April 23, 2013."

http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/inciner...red-with-unique-request-trial-hears-1.2788334

When DM was initially arrested:

"Mr. Paradkar said Mr. Millard still hopes to build his dream home at the property." (same article linked above)

 

[MsSherlock]

I recall that within days of his arrest, DM was having his first lawyer do conveyances to get his property into his mother's name to protect it....and if I am not mistaken, the farm on Roseville Road was one of those transfer to her name. There were articles that I read about the same time on the business of fraudulent conveyances as well.

Roseville Road remained in DM's name until it was sold and transferred on Feb 28, 2014. Purchased by DM for 835K - sold for 840K.

 

[swedie]

Both sides of the defense know exactly what the Crown has in store for evidence. If someone other than MS and DM were at the hangar on the 7th, LE would know about it and therefore defense, both sides, would know about it. MS and DM were not there either until later in the evening and their phones indicate that they were the ones in the Yukon taking the incinerator back to the farm.

And it was business as usual on the 8th around the hangar so there is nothing suspicious about everyone who was there that day.

MOO

Sorry Kamille, I meant the witnesses when I said, "these people have on idea what the Crown has in store and for evidence." For example; SS might get a big whopping surprise of solid evidence, such as a video, slapping him alongside the head. :slap::giggle: MOO.

 

[Abitcountry]

That's exactly my point. If they exited the building via that door that night. Or entered it via that door the next night when they were picking up the incinerator, there should be more damning video evidence. So either they never went in that direction or used that entrance/exit again during the commission of this crime, or the DVR was unplugged/disconnected that first night after they used that doorway to enter the hangar.

MOO

I get it...use another door or unplug the thing.....don't go get picked on the surveillance again.
But there is another possibility--maybe DM did not give the DVR a second thought until Thursday the 9th when the heat was on and he was somewhat worried about the police.....(after all on May 6/7 in the middle of the night he already had plenty else on his mind).
It seems to me that if he knew how to deal with the DVR on the Monday night , that is, as far as how to unplug it etc---then why would he have to ask Dubien how to disconnect it later in the week....
And for that matter, if it was on his mind before the 9th and he didn't know how to disconnect it---why not ask the Shaner who knew how to operate the system.....surely he knew how to disconnect it...it is not rocket science!
And maybe what DM really needed from Dubien was instructions on how to erase it , not unplug it---but in the end, he didn't have time to do that because things were just happening to fast.
And maybe he just dished the DVR off to CN to hide at home thinking that they could sort it out later but he was arrested instead.
And maybe she held onto it because she didn't know how to erase it either....They didn't come after her for almost a full year and by then I am sure the DVR was not foremost in her mind. If I recall correctly when she was first approached by police it was almost a full year later and she refused to cooperate for which she found her self as a guest of the system for 4 months. Then, quite suddenly there was a change of affairs .....And she was released with a leg bracelet and after her parents put up 100,000 dollars in bail.
Shortly thereafter, police came to her parents home with a search warrant and as I recall, they were specifically looking for the DVR that only she and DM knew that she had....leading me to suspect that 4 months in the slammer was enough to loosen her tongue and she had a change of mind about cooperating with the authorities.....
It is just a personal guess at this point---if there is anything recorded on that DVR showing the lovely Miss CN it will likely pop up about the time she appears as a witness.
It is a further guess that ---it might be a similar situation with Miss MM. MOO

 

[Kamille]

The building permit for the shed was interesting. The application was made on April 23/13, just 2 weeks before TB's murder. Applications just don't happen overnight. They'd have to have an application filled out, a full set of plans for the building, hydro, water source, etc plus a plot plan indicating where the structure was going to be. It's certainly reasonable to think the whole process started weeks prior. MB's name on the application only meant that she was acting as Agent for DB in the application process.

The Roseville farm was registered to DM and was never transferred to MB with the other properties; however the POA would have allowed her to dispose of it. We do know that WM's accountants were causing problems for DM around that same time (DM texts to LW2) and DM was having problems securing a mortgage for the Distillery Condo. IMO, his decision to kill WM was having some unexpected and severe financial consequences. MOO

People have questioned WM's decision to invest in the hangar. Maybe he felt that it was a better option than having DM rip thru 500K of his money every year? Maybe he thought it would make DM finally grow up and take financial responsibility? RIP WM. I don't think you ever saw this coming.

"The day’s first witness was Darryl Denny, the chief building official of North Dumfries.
Denny told the court about an application to build a drive shed – typically used to store tractors and other farm equipment – on Millard’s Roseville Road farm. The application was dated April 23, 2013."

http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/inciner...red-with-unique-request-trial-hears-1.2788334

When DM was initially arrested:

"Mr. Paradkar said Mr. Millard still hopes to build his dream home at the property." (same article linked above)

Indicates to me that MB was already involved with addressing a cash flow problem that DM was experiencing and was helping him to come up with ways to alleviate it. I don't imagine she would have considered $25,000 for a used truck to go to Baja, a trip that was likely already going to cost upwards of $15,000 just in fuel, entrance and lodging/meal/entertainment fees, to be a logical expense under the circumstances.

Looks like DM thought he'd solved a problem by eliminating one parent, only to eventually run into the same problem with the other. Perhaps neither of them could make him understand that he couldn't just keep spending money with reckless abandon on himself and his hobbies, with no income coming in. So he just did whatever he wanted to get around those restrictions.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Sorry Kamille, I meant the witnesses when I said, "these people have on idea what the Crown has in store and for evidence." For example; SS might get a big whopping surprise of solid evidence, such as a video, slapping him alongside the head. :slap::giggle: MOO.

Okay I see, except it certainly appears to me that SS has been co-operating with DM's defense, who know all the evidence available, so that's very unlikely to happen IMO.

 

[MsSherlock]

I recall that within days of his arrest, DM was having his first lawyer do conveyances to get his property into his mother's name to protect it....and if I am not mistaken, the farm on Roseville Road was one of those transfer to her name. There were articles that I read about the same time on the business of fraudulent conveyances as well.

5 Maple Gate was transferred to MB for $1.00 on May 17/13. She was lucky to quickly sell it for 1.2M without even listing it. New owners closed on July 4/13. Coincidently, DM's first lawyer DP is partners with someone who shares the unique surname as the new owner of Maple Gate.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm missing DP. I wonder if he'd be having daily media scrums during the trial?? The story of him finding petrified wood in the jungles is almost a tear jerker! http://prehistoricstoneworks.com/about-us/

 

[Kamille]

Roseville Road remained in DM's name until it was sold and transferred on Feb 28, 2014. Purchased by DM for 835K - sold for 840K.

So after real estate fees he ended up losing money on that property? Did we ever find out what the Distillery condo actually sold for?

TIA

 

[Kamille]

5 Maple Gate was transferred to MB for $1.00 on May 17/13. She was lucky to quickly sell it for 1.2M without even listing it. New owners closed on July 4/13. Coincidently, DM's first lawyer DP is partners with someone who shares the unique surname as the new owner of Maple Gate.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm missing DP. I wonder if he'd be having daily media scrums during the trial?? The story of him finding petrified wood in the jungles is almost a tear jerker! http://prehistoricstoneworks.com/about-us/

Maybe he didn't get retained for this trial because he had to return to the jungles to find more product for his other business and just didn't have the time?

 

[MsSherlock]

So after real estate fees he ended up losing money on that property? Did we ever find out what the Distillery condo actually sold for?

TIA

FWIK, the Roseville farm was ever listed for sale. Chances are the current owners, knowing of DM's problems, approached MB or DM's lawyer and worked a private deal. I'd consider the Roseville farm a slight loss because of legal fees and land transfer tax, but certainly nothing major since DM hadn't put any improvements on it. MOO

 

[swedie]

One thing I am curious about regarding the hangar DVR video evidence is that either they never used that entrance where the interior camera was pointed again, or the DVR was disconnected that night (May 6/early May 7th) after they went into the building and the footage that we did see was taken. Otherwise, why wouldn't we be seeing more video of activity at that door? So perhaps DM disconnected it and was waiting for instructions on how to erase it before hooking it back up again? Then on the 9th when he got spooked, he removed it altogether but had CN hold on to it until CD could erase and then reinstall it?

MOO

I asked in the wee hours of the morn this morn and I don't think anyone responded, unless I miss their answer. Sorry if I missed it. Has it been reported where in the hangar that camera is located? It might not have even been an outside door they were coming in through, but a door or an area within the hangar. Along the north end of the building is where I imagine offices, washrooms and other rooms are, correct?. MOO.

[video=youtube;zt_AvHl7vfU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt_AvHl7vfU[/video]