Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #8

[Just4TB]

Does anyone recall from SB's or WDB's testimony if the two men coming up the driveway of the Bosma residence saw them standing in the garage having a smoke? Did they exchange words? Or did SB and WDB just watch them from a distance? Perhaps DM and MS never knew anyone besides TB had seen them?

I agree and have wondered the same. If the perps knew they could be identified, this would put the witnesses in potential huge danger.
One thought that I have found chilling... a good probability that DM not only had the truck keys, but also had the keys to SB house for the duration of time that TB was missing.
Yes, house locks are only a deterrent, but the thought is very disturbing. Security would be necessary up until both DM and MS were behind bars. IMO

Source http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6...found-on-key-ring-in-suv-millard-was-driving/

 

[Sillybilly]

I find the above exchange between NS and SS curious:

Mar 31 2016 3:52 PM
Schlatman says he had the ability to control the camera inside the MIllardAir hangar. "You had the ability to do that on May 6, and May 7," Sachak says. "Did Dell tell you, listen I want you to delete that app on May 6?" Schlatman says no.

^^ NS makes the statement I bolded but there is no answer by SS to THAT statement, only to the question that followed.

Mar 31 2016 3:52 PM
"During those 72 hours, you could have looked inside the hangar by just looking at your phone," Sachak says.

^^ again, a statement by NS, but no response from SS.

Mar 31 2016 3:53 PM
The camera was pointed at some "expensive equipment" on May 6, Sachak says, to which Schlatman agrees.

^^ I thought there was testimony that the camera was pointed toward the wall. Was that a different camera?

NS makes statements that do not require an answer, but leaves an impression that SS is agreeing with every statement NS makes.

 

[SnooperDuper]

^^ I thought there was testimony that the camera was pointed toward the wall. Was that a different camera?

<rsbm>

I think they were talking aqbout the interior shot of the hangar where DM and MS were seen walking through. That camera, I believe, had been moved too. I had understood that prior it had a wider view of the hangar? But then NS points out it was actually set up to watch the "expensive equipment"?

 

[matou]

I also wonder how often SS used his phone at all to monitor the cameras at the hangar or change their positions? Did he re-install the app on his newer phone once he got it?

 

[Stratocaster]

I find the above exchange between NS and SS curious:



^^ NS makes the statement I bolded but there is no answer by SS to THAT statement, only to the question that followed.



^^ again, a statement by NS, but no response from SS.



^^ I thought there was testimony that the camera was pointed toward the wall. Was that a different camera?

NS makes statements that do not require an answer, but leaves an impression that SS is agreeing with every statement NS makes.

IIRC the camera that was pointed to the wall, apparently a default setting due to the cold weather, was mounted on the north wall of the outside of the hangar

 

[MsSherlock]

<rsbm>

I think they were talking aqbout the interior shot of the hangar where DM and MS were seen walking through. That camera, I believe, had been moved too. I had understood that prior it had a wider view of the hangar? But then NS points out it was actually set up to watch the "expensive equipment"?

At 33 sec's in this video where DM & MS are walking thru the hangar, there appears to be some type of door or something in the upper centre to the left. Can anyone make out what it is? It appears to be illuminated, and it looks like it's an outside wall of the hangar. I take it this is where the expensive equipment was suppose to be?

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/tim-bosma-trial-security-footage-shows-video-from-hangar-1.2810385

 

[SnooperDuper]

At 33 sec's in this video where DM & MS are walking thru the hangar, there appears to be some type of door or something in the upper centre to the left. Can anyone make out what it is? It appears to be illuminated, and it looks like it's an outside wall of the hangar. I take it this is where the expensive equipment was suppose to be?

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/tim-bosma-trial-security-footage-shows-video-from-hangar-1.2810385

It looks like the tool crib, which is the counter you would go as a mechanic to request tools and hardware (screws, nuts, bolts, hinges...). Someone would be back there to serve the mechanics at all times, and give them a hard time like refuse to give them a tool if they didn't know the precise name for it

Anyway that would be my guess.

 

[Kamille]

As an aside, I am in the midst of many months long performing the duty of executrix (female executor) for my father's estate. Having to deal with so many financial institutions, real estate dealings, etc. got me thinking about WM and his will.

There have been so many great posts asking questions about DM and his financial status and uncontrolled spending habits that I really, really have to ask who in the world would be executor for the estate of WM? Probably not his ex-wife and Lord help the world if it was DM.
The executor of an estate is financially responsible for all assets of the deceased, whether it be real estate, bank accounts , credit and debit accounts, investments, income tax, capital gains etc. etc. I just can't picture DM being named as executor in WM's will due to his total lack of any business sense, but maybe WM did name him. I think only as executor could DM control every aspect of WM assets.

And could it be possible that WM was not too impressed with DM's irresponsible spending habits of WM's money and WM told DM he was going to change his will?
Could that be the reason WM met an untimely demise?
JMHO

It would not surprise me at all to find out that MB was the executrix of WM's estate. I am still confused about RB's testimony regarding their relationship.

All three were directors for MB's Canadian Flora and Fauna Society which was incorporated in 2007. I assume WM and MB were divorced at that time? It appears that their relationship was still amicable and they trusted each other with business affairs. If WM did not trust DM to be the executor, I don't think he would have hesitated to appoint MB. That said, however, I think it was likely DM, which explains why JV was still using credit cards in WM's name 3 months after his death IMO.

https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/scr/cc/CorporationsCanada/fdrlCrpDtls.html?corpId=4435958

MOO

 

[Kamille]

I wonder if Dungey will pick up on the security cameras testimony in his cross of SS on Monday?

I know that SS and his wife got new phones on May 7th, the day DM told SS and others to stay away from the hangar, but is it known if texts prior to May 7th on SS's original phone were able to be captured, or only his texts as seen on the receiver's phone, as was done with DM's phone to capture their conversations?

It is just too much of a coincidence that SS decided on May 7th to get a new phone, IMO. Also, did he delete the security app from his old phone or was LE able to access the old data pre-May 7th from SS's new phone? I wonder because of his testimony yesterday:

Mar 31 2016 3:52 PM
Schlatman says he had the ability to control the camera inside the MIllardAir hangar. "You had the ability to do that on May 6, and May 7," Sachak says. "Did Dell tell you, listen I want you to delete that app on May 6?" Schlatman says no.

Mar 31 2016 3:52 PM
"During those 72 hours, you could have looked inside the hangar by just looking at your phone," Sachak says.

Mar 31 2016 3:53 PM
The camera was pointed at some "expensive equipment" on May 6, Sachak says, to which Schlatman agrees.

NS may just have been confirming that DM never asked him to delete the app and the app is still accessible? - OR - Was the app deleted and NS just wants to make sure to get SS to say that it's because he changed phones and DM didn't ask him to delete it?

NS is also putting all the responsibility onto SS for the control of the security cameras it seems and SS seems to agree.

Also NS first mentions both dates May 6th and 7th, and then follows up only with the May 6th date :"Did Dell tell you, listen I want you to delete that app on May 6?"

Was the May 7th dated purposefully omitted by NS? It just also happens to be the same date that SS got rid of his old phone and got a new one. This all sounds so convoluted. I'm confused I guess, and it's showing. lol

I know I'm very skeptical, but I just don't believe in such convenient coincidences.:notgood: PS Tweets above posted by Velma yesterday.

All MOO.

I believe that LE did manage to get a hold of SS's old phone as it was tweeted that at least one of the texts between them, which were done prior to SS getting the new phone, had been deleted on his phone but was found on DM's phone. So it does appear that SS kept his old phone and there was nothing sinister about he and his wife getting new phones on May 7th.

As for the cameras, the view from the one that was actually working inside the hangar would have been non existant if it weren't pointed in the direction that it was. You can see that the camera sits in side some kind of bay within the building and that it would have been pointing to a wall in either direction if it was not a still shot. So Sachak's nonsense about SS being able to utilize that camera and look all around that hangar with his app was...well just that...nonsense. It's likely that particular camera never moves. Why didn't he address the other cameras in the hangar? Why didn't he ask SS why they were all non operational? Didn't the magic app tell him the whole system wasn't working and hadn't been for at least a week? Can he troubleshoot and repair an issue from his app? Very unlikely. I hope the Crown asks him. Or TD, which would be more interesting.

None of the other cameras outside were operational either it seems. Except for the one which I believe we heard had been repositioned to the wall a week earlier. Although SS came up with some insane story about the camera automatically turning to the wall when it gets cold. Really? If it did this in the last week of April, when the temperature rarely, if ever, dips below zero, does that mean all outdoor cameras would be facing the siding for 5-6 months of the year? I'd call that a useless system and a big lie by SS. If that is an actual thing (which I highly doubt because why would anyone in Canada purchase such a unit? Not to mention what would be the point? It makes no sense and I hope he's called out for it) I'd imagine it would have to get a lot colder than 3 degrees celcius (the low for the evening of May 6, 2013) before that would happen.

I suppose all this could have been cleared up by CD but I think it's unlikely that it would or will be. They always say attorneys never ask a question they don't know the answer to when eliciting testimony. I have a feeling that the Crown is on to the shenanigans of a few of the witnesses in this trial and would rather not bother even putting them up there if their testimony is not crucial to the case. Look how Sachak was able to spin the whole "DM was going into business with his Uncle statement that SS gave".

MOO

 

[Kamille]

IIRC the camera that was pointed to the wall, apparently a default setting due to the cold weather, was mounted on the north wall of the outside of the hangar

Just jumping off your post...

I challenge all the amazing sleuths on this board to find anything online that suggests that a security camera will default to a certain position in cold weather. Especially since the coldest it got on May 6/7th was 3 degrees celcius.

:websleuther:

 

[Kamille]

At 33 sec's in this video where DM & MS are walking thru the hangar, there appears to be some type of door or something in the upper centre to the left. Can anyone make out what it is? It appears to be illuminated, and it looks like it's an outside wall of the hangar. I take it this is where the expensive equipment was suppose to be?

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/tim-bosma-trial-security-footage-shows-video-from-hangar-1.2810385

I cannot figure out what we're looking at in that video. I wish the Crown had put out photos of the entire interior of the hangar to show how much space DM's hobby was taking up and to get the jury familiar with the areas within the hangar that they are talking about. There must be a reason why this was not done?

MOO

 

[swedie]

At 33 sec's in this video where DM & MS are walking thru the hangar, there appears to be some type of door or something in the upper centre to the left. Can anyone make out what it is? It appears to be illuminated, and it looks like it's an outside wall of the hangar. I take it this is where the expensive equipment was suppose to be?

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/tim-bosma-trial-security-footage-shows-video-from-hangar-1.2810385

Thanks for posting that article MsSherlock. Something in it caught my attention. But under cross-examination, Plaxton admitted it is impossible to identify the men in the video as the two accused. I'm quite surprised Plaxton couldn't identify the two figures in this video. DM has a very distinctive walk. In ToriS's case LE asked TM and about six other females to come in and "walk" for them so they could compare their gaits to the gait of the female in that "very grainy" video captured from the high school. The hangar video is so much more clear than the one from TS's case. Surprised they couldn't have enhanced the hangar one better. MOO.

Ultimately, we all know what happened: The police turned their eyes from Tori's mother after she came in and "walked" for them, so they could compare her gait to that of the woman on the videotape. It wasn't her. About a half-dozen other women who fit the general description, and who had fallen under the ambit of their suspicions, were asked to do the same, Ms. McClintic was one of them. In her second interview, she gave police a full statement.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...s-are-both-vindicated-at-last/article4275245/

A woman named Terri owned a puffy white jacket and walked with a gait similar to that of a person spotted on a surveillance video leading eight-year-old Victoria (Tori) Stafford away from her school four days earlier.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...er-was-the-break-police-needed/article533538/

 

[swedie]

Just jumping off your post...

I challenge all the amazing sleuths on this board to find anything online that suggests that a security camera will default to a certain position in cold weather. Especially since the coldest it got on May 6/7th was 3 degrees celcius.

:websleuther:

Oh wait, but what was the temperature on April 29, 2013, when Plaxton discovered that's when the outside camera went into default?! Or was it something to do with SS having the app to adjust the cameras on his phone? Default...cold weather :hilarious:. Maybe the defense will call CD to the stand to give his expertise on it. Thanks for the invite Kamille, but I'm not up for this challenge. :giggle: Page 30 of the evidence. MOO.

Robert Plaxton's security camera presentation
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...r-hours-after-tim-bosma-disappeared-1.3483358

 

[SnooperDuper]

Just jumping off your post...

I challenge all the amazing sleuths on this board to find anything online that suggests that a security camera will default to a certain position in cold weather. Especially since the coldest it got on May 6/7th was 3 degrees celcius.

:websleuther:

Well I scanned a few tech forums. You would expect a camera bought for outside in Canada had an integrated heater, and many do. In cold weather they can blow a fuse and then you lose video. Otherwise they might freeze in position due to ice, snow etc. People report cameras without an integrated heater might work well to -15 or so? No good reason for a camera to fail at 3C though, from what I read.

Cameras have what's called an IP Rating, which defines how resistant they are to dust and liquid in the environment. You need a rating over 44 to use the camera outside. More: https://www.lorextechnology.com/sel...weather-resistance-and-ip-ratings/R-sc2700033

Maybe this is why CD's testimony has been delayed. He will be able to speak to the technical specifications of the cameras?

 

[SnooperDuper]

Oh wait, but what was the temperature on April 29, 2013, when Plaxton discovered that's when the outside camera went into default?! Or was it something to do with SS having the app to adjust the cameras on his phone? Default...cold weather :hilarious:. Maybe the defense will call CD to the stand to give his expertise on it. Thanks for the invite Kamille, but I'm not up for this challenge. :giggle: Page 30 of the evidence. MOO.

Robert Plaxton's security camera presentation
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...r-hours-after-tim-bosma-disappeared-1.3483358

High of 15C, low of 9C, no precipitation
http://climate.weather.gc.ca/climat...48569&timeframe=2&Year=2013&Month=4&cmdB1=Go#

 

[Sphinx]

I find the above exchange between NS and SS curious:



^^ NS makes the statement I bolded but there is no answer by SS to THAT statement, only to the question that followed.



^^ again, a statement by NS, but no response from SS.



^^ I thought there was testimony that the camera was pointed toward the wall. Was that a different camera?

NS makes statements that do not require an answer, but leaves an impression that SS is agreeing with every statement NS makes.

Maybe I have watched too many American tv shows, but I thought this kind of questioning was called " leading the witness" and not allowed. Perhaps it is different in Canada. IMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

<rsbm>

Robert Plaxton's security camera presentation
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...r-hours-after-tim-bosma-disappeared-1.3483358

You can see from the images on pages 30, 32 that the security cameras are enclosed in weatherproof domes.

On page 31 you can see a colour version of the video image MsSherlock was talking about.

On page 28 you can see that the DVR unit was a Provision SA-8200HD. It has two SATA hard drives inside, and the system is Linux-based, and doesn't look very user friendly. You can delete video through the DVR, but here's the interface you'd be dealing with: http://www.manualslib.com/manual/75...el-Digital-Video-Recorder.html?page=68#manual

I can understand why DM opted to just unplug the thing.

 

[swedie]

<rsbm>

You can see from the images on pages 30, 32 that the security cameras are enclosed in weatherproof domes.

On page 31 you can see a colour version of the video image MsSherlock was talking about.

On page 28 you can see that the DVR unit was a Provision SA-8200HD. It has two SATA hard drives inside, and the system is Linux-based, and doesn't look very user friendly. You can delete video through the DVR, but here's the interface you'd be dealing with: http://www.manualslib.com/manual/75...el-Digital-Video-Recorder.html?page=68#manual

I can understand why DM opted to just unplug the thing.

Thanks Snooper! Hmmm weatherproof domes you say. Well I sure hope someone for the Crown is reading here and taking notes. I'd like to SS get nailed of some of his deceptive answers. Here I thought SS was a witness for the Crown, but it pretty apparent he's listing a wee bit for his once in a lifetime generous buddy DM. I guess that could be a good thing though, as the Crown could show that DM had such an influence on people they would do anything for him, even perhaps lie in a serious criminal proceedings? MOO.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Thanks Snooper! Hmmm weatherproof domes you say. Well I sure hope someone for the Crown is reading here and taking notes. I'd like to SS get nailed of some of his deceptive answers. Here I thought SS was a witness for the Crown, but it pretty apparent he's listing a wee bit for his once in a lifetime generous buddy DM. I guess that could be a good thing though, as the Crown could show that DM had such an influence on people they would do anything for him, even perhaps lie in a serious criminal proceedings? MOO.

Still reading the manual a bit...seems changing the direction of the camera would be something along the lines of:

- Press PTZ (Point-Tilt-Zoom) button on front of DVR
- A menu comes up.
- There are directional buttons on the DVR face that allow you move the camera around
- You can save a certain position as a "preset point" and can have the camera stay focused there; scan from one preset point to another; cycle through a series of preset points
- If the camera were reset through software, that would show in the system settings
- Maybe the "reset" button would send the attached PTZ cameras into default position which may be straight down? But then both cameras weren't straight down, were they?
- Cameras are enclosed inside a dome and mounted high so they would have to be moved via the DVR software (or affected by a glitch)

 

[SnooperDuper]

I believe the model of DVR DM had supports up to 4 cameras.