Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #8

[Deleted member 102539]

Just thinking about this power washer thing a little more.... remember that SH testified that when he saw the truck (TB's truck) on the tarp inside the hangar on May 8th?

(from Adam Carter's Live Blog):



If DM was asking SS for the powerwasher in the early morning of May 8th, and considering that the carpet was STILL sitting beside the truck, on the tarp, inside the hangar by the time SH saw it a little later in the morning/noonish? also on May 8th... does this not indicate that either the truck had still not yet been hosed off, or else that it had JUST been done prior to SH seeing it, and presumably AFTER SS and AJ showed up to the hangar on the 8th with the powerwasher? Really wondering now if SS/AJ may have potentially been involved in cleanup as well?

bbm red

Does it make sense the carpet on the tarp to be the carpet out of the Yukon?
AJ (?) explained the seats had to change because of DM's allergy, but maybe if the carpet had been missing also AJ/SS would have noticed some "inconsistencies".

 

[Abitcountry]

Sort of amazing that they only had one working security camera working in the building (that entrance), isn't it?

I worked for a tech company that experienced a break-in, and the week of, someone came and cut down the bullet-type security cameras (not inside domes) at the back of the building. (And, in the end it turned out to be an inside job!)

At Millardair, went over a week with almost no security and no one moved to fix anything.

Ahhh, but I think there is a whole lot of method in this madness.....while DVR is set and does record DM & MS coming in one door....I think there are in fact a total of 10 man doors at the hangar. Looks like 3 on the west wall...1 on the east wall....2 in the large black hangar doors facing south....and no less than 4 man doors in the north wall .
We only ever saw one video clip of DM & MS entering at about 15 minutes after they arrived and we do not know through which entrance.
Some interesting questions for Dubien if he ever appears....how many doors and HOW MANY CAMERAS WORKING ?
Yes, what a coincidence at the hangar that the week before the last 2 cameras in apparent operation get thrown off one by the 'cold weather' and the other by some mysterious hand.
And can you imagine--a whole week with no real surveillance of the very expensive equipment according to the defense.....and nobody called Mr. Dubien ?? But then again, I know I read somewhere that "Shaner" said that he had installed the surveillance....now doesn't that make the whole topic about as clear as mud !

 

[Inspector_North]

bbm red

Does it make sense the carpet on the tarp to be the carpet out of the Yukon?
AJ (?) explained the seats had to change because of DM's allergy, but maybe if the carpet had been missing also AJ/SS would have noticed some "inconsistencies".

Still not much mentioned about the Yukon carpet being absent. Without knowing if it was removed after the murder, it adds many questions to the whole 4 day activity.

Could the second burn spot at the farm be the Yukon carpet, and was CN there for that burn? I am still leaning that way since they made a u-turn to pick something up in a tarp on the 9th. Supposedly, the seats and carpet were long gone from the truck on the morning of the 8th.

 

[flipflop]

You can generally only go Canada, US, Caribbean from there.

Mexico too

 

[Abitcountry]

Great posts this weekend, lots of food f or thought.

I wonder why the courts really want the "average Joe" to serve on juries? Too much room for errors in IMO. The courts demand professionals for every other aspect of a trial: Judge, Crown, Defence, LE, expert witnesses, court personnel but not the jury - obviously the most important aspect of any trial.
No more DNA confusion, etc. etc. just people who are professionally trained to weigh the facts presented.
Create some jobs, and let go the average juror who wants to perform their civic duty but really doesn't want to survive on payment of $40 per day.
Really....unless you are single, independently wealthy, have an inquisitive nature, an IQ over 80 and don't mind the hours I don't believe too many people want to serve on a jury, especially for a well know criminal case such as this.
I know which type of jury I would prefer if ever needed, the heck with being judged by my peers who may or may not understand the evidence.
Just observing the questions and answers being lobbed back and forth on WS have shown me that it will take a special person to arrive at the correct judgement of the evidence of a trial. Remember OJ, Casey Anthony and several others.

On that note, I still can't get out of my head the fact that DM appears to have total control of all of WM assets, although this appears to have changed to MB after the arrest of DM. Power of attorney or something else.****** Actually I think I did read that MB got POA for DM, which would appear he was the Executor of WM's will.******

I have read several times that MB, as well as DM, was present in the house when WM was killed by a gunshot. Why was MB there? Who shot WM?
WM's demise was treated as a suicide for the longest time, then suddenly DM is charged with his murder. No word from MB.

BUT, MB will, in IMO, questionably pay people who are called as witnesses to her son's trial for murder of TB.
And her son, who IMO, murders a man and steals his truck, feels the safest place to hide said truck is in his Mother's driveway miles away. Really?
And now the testimony of SS appears conveniently very slanted toward the betterment of DM.

I suspect that MB was granted the POA to act on behalf of DM and his own affairs in this instance, due to the fact that he has been incarcerated and cannot be expected to 'take care of business' for the interim :sheesh:. If it so happens that he was actually named as his father's sole executor ,then, yes I suspect her POA would have been extended to cover that as well.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Ahhh, but I think there is a whole lot of method in this madness.....while DVR is set and does record DM & MS coming in one door....I think there are in fact a total of 10 man doors at the hangar. Looks like 3 on the west wall...1 on the east wall....2 in the large black hangar doors facing south....and no less than 4 man doors in the north wall .
We only ever saw one video clip of DM & MS entering at about 15 minutes after they arrived and we do not know through which entrance.
Some interesting questions for Dubien if he ever appears....how many doors and HOW MANY CAMERAS WORKING ?
Yes, what a coincidence at the hangar that the week before the last 2 cameras in apparent operation get thrown off one by the 'cold weather' and the other by some mysterious hand.
And can you imagine--a whole week with no real surveillance of the very expensive equipment according to the defense.....and nobody called Mr. Dubien ?? But then again, I know I read somewhere that "Shaner" said that he had installed the surveillance....now doesn't that make the whole topic about as clear as mud !

Just to be precise, it was the outside camera that was "affected by the weather" and actually repositioned by someone logging into the DVR on the 29th April. The other camera indoors, it seems, was left alone. The system could have supported up to 4 cameras.

 

[Abitcountry]

In the past they may have simply smashed the windshields to get what they needed. Then order a new one in the $15k a month SS and DM spent on 'stuff'. I recall seeing them trash a Mustang windshield on purpose, in a FB video when there were removing its engine. I suspect given the need to get the truck painted asap, he wanted an intact windshield in and fast. As well Baja was approaching and it could take a day or so to track down a new windshield, which may also have raised suspicion ie someone looking for that particular RAM windshield days after TB went missing. MOO

Could just have been DM 'being thrifty' like the 'shopping at Costco' line that we all read way back somewhere.

 

[Inspector_North]

Someone mentioned the minimal security at the airport. I wonder if Millardair was required to chip in for the service or it was included? If they did, security guards generally have to clock in at tour stations. Very little mentioned about what security observed that night. The Eliminator is not exactly a silent machine with propane burning at a high rate and fans to aid the combustion.

“BTW — SN500 is working great now,” Schlatman signed off: “sounds awesome when the afterburner kicks in!!”

MOO

 

[Just4TB]

Regarding seats...
Here is a pic comparing a similiar truck and angle with AJ photo of TB truck
It appears to me, something is on the dash of TB truck, and no headrests visible. MOO

 

[Inspector_North]

Regarding seats...
Here is a pic comparing a similiar truck and angle with AJ photo of TB truck
It appears to me, something is on the dash of TB truck, and no headrests visible. MOO

I agree! ..... MOO
nice work!

 

[Abitcountry]

Response to Post #246.....
Then explain why the inside camera did not pan 180degrees as it was claimed it could do.....I thought there were several references to the fact that it had been manually set so as not to pan about but remained on a fixed position mode.
Stand corrected if I have missed something here

 

[Abitcountry]

Great Visuals.....Inspector

 

[hellkat2]

This SS ratted out his father in law to DM who fired him. Interesting. Why is this SS still walking the street. Why is DM's girlfriend? Why his DM's mother not on the stand? Lots of accomplices who were either actively involved or did nothing to stop the insanity.

 

[Georgeo]

Totally agree that average citizens are not intelligent enough to examine evidence correctly. Jury should consist of specially trained people who are educated to interpret various types of evidence.

 

[hellkat2]

MB is likely who DM would leave everything to.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Anyone care to speculate what the two accused were doing from 12:19am until 2:30am (2 hours 11 minutes) while TB's truck sat outside the hangar? Was TB's truck moved to the south end of the hangar (12:35am) because there was water supply at that end? Six minutes later DM's SUV is also moved to the south end, but a minute later the SUV leaves. Where did one or both of the perps go during that 30 minutes? To see if there was a garden hose outside at that "nearby bungalow?" To see if a "DIY" car wash had video surveillance? Anyone familiar with that area and know if there is DIY car wash nearby, within a 15 minute drive?

Has it been mentioned where the interior camera at the hangar was; north, south or west side? (1 hour 34 minutes after arriving at hangar, perps captured on surveillance. Were they brain storming how they are going to wash TB's truck? Looking for water source/hookup, hose, buckets?

They are there 1 hour 25 minutes before igniting the incinerator. Then 15 minutes later TB's truck is turned around at south end of hangar? Why?

At 2:30am, 2 hours 11 minutes after first arriving at the hangar, TB's truck is finally moved into hangar. Why did it take so long for DM to move TB's truck into the hangar? They washed it and were waiting for it to dry?

3 hours 14 minutes from their first arrival, they finally turned on the hangar lights, 57 minutes after moving TB's truck inside the hangar.

1 hour 24 minutes after moving TB's truck inside the hangar, there are two brief flares ups from incinerator. What caused these flares? Burning their clothing or carpet from TB's truck perhaps?

Then at 5:30am TB's truck is moved out of the hangar and taken to the south end again. Perhaps more washing of the truck with seats and carpet removed? Then 25 and 35 minutes after that, TB's truck is moved again, to the west side loading doors and again at 6:05am back into the hangar. Three minutes later the incinerator is towed into hangar via DM's SUV. The perps left that morning at 7:02am in DM's Yukon. The incinerator remained inside hangar until 11:40pm, almost 24 hours after it arriving with TB's remains inside.

OK I'm going cross eyed now looking at my computer screen now hahaha . Am I missing something? Was there nothing caught on surveillance from May 8th at the hangar? I'm going to blame this on Flipflop as she/he's the one who got me looking into this video surveillance stuff. :blowkiss:

May 7, 2013
12:19am pickup truck towing a trailer pulls up to north end of hangar with SUV follows close behind.
12:35am pickup is moved to south end of hangar. Trailer remains at north end until 6:08am when it is towed into hangar.
12:41am the SUV is also moved to the south end of the hangar.
12:42am the SUV leaves the hangar property.
1:12am SUV returns 30 minutes later.
1:33am surveillance from inside the hangar shows two men and dog enter.
1:44am a large flame is visible above the trailer.
1:59am pickup truck is turned around.
2:30am pickup is moved into the hangar through north entrance.
3:23am the hangar lights come on.
3:54am someone comes out of door, goes to trailer. Flare from bottom of trailer, then another flare from top. Person goes into hangar.
4:19am and 4:26am someone exits then re-enters the hangar.
5:30am pickup moved out of hangar, parked at south end. Someone seen walking from truck to north end of hangar. Large door closes.
5:38am two people are seen walking toward south end of hangar. Plaxton cautions what's shown here could actually be a video "artifact," caused by reflections from traffic.
5:55am pickup truck backed up to loading door on west side.
6:05am pickup truck moved to north end of hangar.
6:08am SUV hooks up to trailer towing it into hangar.
7:02am SUV leaves hangar and it's now light outside. SUV makes left turn, heading southbound on Fountain Street.

9:09pm SUV arrives at the hangar.
11:40pm hangar lights go out. Loading door opens, SUV leaves towing incinerator.

May 9, 2013
6:56pm Red Dodge Ram pickup with red cap arrives at hangar.
8:38pm Red pickup leaves pulling fifth wheel trailer and returns to hangar two minutes later.
8:43pm Red pickup leaves again heading south on Fountain Street.

http://m.kitchenerpost.ca/news-stor...-s-caught-on-video-at-dellen-millard-s-hangar

bbm red

1. Something important forgotten at the farm perhaps?
https://www.google.de/maps/dir/Regi...b0cb90969e564f!2m2!1d-80.3850389!2d43.3567559

2. When the Dodge Ram wasn't in the hangar, it had to be far away from the incinerator it seems. Maybe DM/MS feared to get a surprise visit by security or someone other. As long as the Dodge wasn't visible from the North side they could have said they hadn't noticed the vehicle (by evil thieves parked there while they were innocently burning "garbage" :innocent.
When the power washing without power washer or IF at all it then happened, I don't know. In any case: if they drove the more or less dripping Dodge into the middle of the hangar and onto the tarp, they had to clean all the floor from the entrance door to the tarp afterwards. :sweep:

 

[Abitcountry]

Great posts this weekend, lots of food f or thought.

I wonder why the courts really want the "average Joe" to serve on juries? Too much room for errors in IMO. The courts demand professionals for every other aspect of a trial: Judge, Crown, Defence, LE, expert witnesses, court personnel but not the jury - obviously the most important aspect of any trial.
No more DNA confusion, etc. etc. just people who are professionally trained to weigh the facts presented.
Create some jobs, and let go the average juror who wants to perform their civic duty but really doesn't want to survive on payment of $40 per day.
Really....unless you are single, independently wealthy, have an inquisitive nature, an IQ over 80 and don't mind the hours I don't believe too many people want to serve on a jury, especially for a well know criminal case such as this.
I know which type of jury I would prefer if ever needed, the heck with being judged by my peers who may or may not understand the evidence.
Just observing the questions and answers being lobbed back and forth on WS have shown me that it will take a special person to arrive at the correct judgement of the evidence of a trial. Remember OJ, Casey Anthony and several others.

.

I really appreciate your post and consider this first portion especially well thought out. I think you have touched on a point that has come up on Ws but not quite so eloquently...more than once, posters have expressed their hope that the jurors "got this, that or the other thing" and I think there has been an appreciation too that the information coming at the jurors in this case has been complicated and multi-layered to boot.

You make many good points but I especially got a chuckle reading about your own preference for a professional jury as opposed to a jury of your peers----immediately I thought of Jian Gomeshi's own choice of trial by judge which I honestly believe was the absolute best choice given the controversy surrounding the issues. And as I recall Marie Henein's interview following that case---mmmmm....I am right with you. If the need ever arose, I would want my own case to be judged by a professional as well and definitely not my peers.

You are right again, it would provide a whole new career possibility and position....and a quick and ready supply of jurors that may help to clear the back log in Ontario courts for sure.
There may come the day when it is offered as a three year program at community colleges and I think the whole idea has a lot of merit.

In the interim, we have what we have..... And while I do have the odd concern for the jurors in this trial, I am encouraged by something I have noticed over time right here on this site. It appears to me that the longer things carry on, the more interesting the conversations have become....people are listening very closely and retaining details at an alarming rate. Before you post these days, you need to check your facts or you are going to feel like people will be jumping all over you....everyone is getting sharper and quicker with the material...finding loopholes...and ever vigilant for lawyer or client antics. And it occurred to me last night that if that is what has happened to those participating on this site---then it is happening for the jurors too. The more practice one has with this material, the more practised one becomes and the conversation is automatically carried to the next level......and that alone gives me confidence in this jury at least in this case

 

[Georgeo]

Why do defence lawyers have so much leeway to restrict evidence being used at trial?? If it is relevant to the case, show it. If it makes the accused look worse, too bad. An innocent person would have nothing to hide. Tim Bosma certainly is not able to tell his story, so why can't ALL evidence be used to tell story of his abduction and death? All the legal arguments in this case are to protect the accused. Sad.

 

[Georgeo]

Totally agree with this reply. Let's hope jury are rational, intelligent, clear headed. And not easily confused!

 

[matou]

I agree! ..... MOO
nice work!

The thing on the dash is in the place where the VIN plate is, I believe.