Breaking news in the LISK case

[bessie]

This discussion is getting way too personal. Stick to the topic, please.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Okay, well...the only similarity mentioned by Azzata is that, like the Gilgo bodies, the Lattingtown remains were found on the shore. That's a pretty minute similarity, imo. :dunno:

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/long_island&id=8964394

 

[deedee21]

That was not a case I worked on. I got that when I was invited to Hollywood by the folks at NYPD Blue. Two Brooklyn detectives came the next day and told David Milch about this story. I am pretty sure they used it in the show. BTW, most of those stories on Blue were based on actual events.

This past week I saw a repeat of the show Criminal Minds again. Its from season three and called Birthright. We all know the show is about serial killers. This episode has 4 victims, the killer maintained the same dumping grounds, the killings are seasonal, and burlap bags are used. It makes you wonder coincidence or is the killer copying details fro the show. I say this because this episode first aired in December of 2007. Only MBB was missing at that time.

 

[deedee21]

The show can be ordered on amazon also.

 

[deedee21]

When I tried to see the show on youtube it brought up escorts sites. Another coincidence?

 

[twocuriouscats]

Quick question: If your dog started frantically digging up a buried bit of material (bag), would you open it to see what was inside?

Every time I see a jumbo plastic bag on the side of the road, I expect to hear that someone found a body...Over the last two years, I have decided that I would never open a bag that I found either on the side of the road or in a wooded area.

:floorlaugh: Talk about a nightmare!!! I'm laughing 'cause I'm the kind of person who thinks about that - I pass black garbage bags by the road and I don't even want to know... lol!
To answer you JustK, if my dog started tearing at a bag - then yes, I would open it. And that's why curiousity killed the cat.

 

[hawkshaw]

You know, the more I think about it, the more I'm wondering what the heck LE has that even makes them suspect this Lattingtown body might be related LISK. It can't simply be because the body was dumped on the shoreline...bodies turn up in all kinds of places. At this point, they can't even say with certainty that it's a female, but they think it's possible it might be the work of LISK? Based on what?!

Just doesn't add up.

Unless, of course, the remains were found in burlap.

It's very simple if you are paying attention. The NCPD Homicide Commander is simply leaving all the options open. He doesn't know if his body is connected to the Gilgo bodies. What he does know is a body was buried near a body of water that appears to be a female. Chances are there is no connection. But the Commander doesn't know that at this point in time.

What they call this is professionalism and having an open mind until such time other information is gathered to make a more educated opinion. He simply doesn't know.

Compare that to what has been going on with the Gilgo "Investigation" where the 'investigators' seem to have separated JB from the GB4 and SG deaths. Add to that some of our Sleuthers saying there is no connection......do you get it <modsnip>?

 

[LR1]

The case has been entered in namus
http://identifyus.org/en/cases/10952

Asian Female 30=50 years old

Skeletal remains in a garbage bag partially buried in the sand. The bags are weathered and have tree roots and vegetation growing into the bags. Location is a secluded beach/sandy area off of Sheep Ln in Lattington along the Long Island Sound.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

30-50? Okay, guess I'm going to have to look through all those missing sites again, because I was looking for an asian woman in her 20's.

Bra, dark jeans, socks. That's a little more to work with. We also get a new pic of the pig necklace. Anyone else think this necklace looks masculine? I kind of thought that from the older pics, but this new pic really shows the chain. Just doesn't seem delicate enough for a woman...but then, tastes vary.

 

[Just K]

A member suggested that if we get nowhere that we could go back to the beginning and see if we end up in the same place or a different place. So, I went back to what brought me here. It was the AC4. After reading hours of old posts and articles re: the AC killings, a few things jumped out at me.

One, there was an Asian transvestite, named Samantha, (probably her street name) who knew the victims and made a few interesting comments about the days leading up to Kim Raffo's disappearance.

Can't find the article but I did find this:
Prostitutes fear serial killer in Atlantic City
Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:38am ET


By Matthew Verrinder

ATLANTIC CITY, New Jersey (Reuters) - In Atlantic City, the prostitutes toil not far from this gambling city's famed Boardwalk hoping to turn a trick even though many know a serial killer on the loose has murdered their sister streetwalkers.

The grisly murders of four prostitutes, their shoeless bodies found last week lined up in a drainage ditch behind a strip of sleazy motels, has left many in the trade terrified.

"There is some deranged psycho out there killing people," said Samantha, an Asian transvestite prostitute who said she knew all four victims.


The second thing that jumped out at me was that at least three of the four AC victims, just like GB4 were mothers. The third thing was that two could pass as casino workers (Barbara Breidor and Tracy Roberts)and Denise Hill said that Molly could pass as a tourist. http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...0/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

That leaves only Kim Raffo as looking rough (paraphrased from the witnesses opinions on the girl's appearance based on their drug use.)

The final thing that stood out was the way the women were dressed...just like three of the GB4 (that we know about - ALC, IIRC-MBB & MW)... in pants and either a hoodie, jacket or a shirt. Only Molly Jean Dilts was wearing a skirt. I don't think we don't know what MB was wearing.

Anyway, we know that the Sheep lane victim was found with pants and IIRC a bra. I would like to see if we could track down the Asian transvestite who spoke out publicly re: a possible POI for AC4...I'm not sure if there was Denise Hill and Pam something or if Pam might be Samantha.

(RE: Pam)http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P3-1172159461.html
"Raffo was welcomed by three men as she climbed into a large green van along with another woman named Pam. The group departed on a late-night trip to several different motel rooms.

But after one of the men - a white man with greasy black hair, a dark beard and a beer belly - began assaulting the girls with insults such as "dirty " and rambling about a 15-year prison term he served for murder, Pam decided she had heard enough and left the party. Raffo stayed.

That's the story Raffo's boyfriend, Kenny Bilecki, told The Press on &#8230;"


In the GB4 case, one could make an argument for three of the four looking somewhat like the girl next door and one (ALC) looking a bit harder. Kim Raffo and ALC were the last victims in each case.

Ah, there was one more thing: In addition to Kim Raffo who had come to AC from Florida and Barbar Breidor had previously run a multi-million dollar company in FLORIDA.

 

[Justiceforever]

30-50? Okay, guess I'm going to have to look through all those missing sites again, because I was looking for an asian woman in her 20's.

Bra, dark jeans, socks. That's a little more to work with. We also get a new pic of the pig necklace. Anyone else think this necklace looks masculine? I kind of thought that from the older pics, but this new pic really shows the chain. Just doesn't seem delicate enough for a woman...but then, tastes vary.

I agree Kat It is a maculine looking chain. The clasp is one I've never seen.

 

[deedee21]

Shes described as being between 30 and 50 yrs.off age. Late twenties is close to 30 so I would not rule it out. I hope shes not someone who was not reported missing.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

A member suggested that if we get nowhere that we could go back to the beginning and see if we end up in the same place or a different place. So, I went back to what brought me here. It was the AC4. After reading hours of old posts and articles re: the AC killings, a few things jumped out at me.

One, there was an Asian transvestite, named Samantha, (probably her street name) who knew the victims and made a few interesting comments about the days leading up to Kim Raffo's disappearance.

Can't find the article but I did find this:
Prostitutes fear serial killer in Atlantic City
Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:38am ET


By Matthew Verrinder

ATLANTIC CITY, New Jersey (Reuters) - In Atlantic City, the prostitutes toil not far from this gambling city's famed Boardwalk hoping to turn a trick even though many know a serial killer on the loose has murdered their sister streetwalkers.

The grisly murders of four prostitutes, their shoeless bodies found last week lined up in a drainage ditch behind a strip of sleazy motels, has left many in the trade terrified.

"There is some deranged psycho out there killing people," said Samantha, an Asian transvestite prostitute who said she knew all four victims.


The second thing that jumped out at me was that at least three of the four AC victims, just like GB4 were mothers. The third thing was that two could pass as casino workers (Barbara Breidor and Tracy Roberts)and Denise Hill said that Molly could pass as a tourist. http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...0/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

That leaves only Kim Raffo as looking rough (paraphrased from the witnesses opinions on the girl's appearance based on their drug use.)

The final thing that stood out was the way the women were dressed...just like three of the GB4 (that we know about - ALC, IIRC-MBB & MW)... in pants and either a hoodie, jacket or a shirt. Only Molly Jean Dilts was wearing a skirt. I don't think we don't know what MB was wearing.

Anyway, we know that the Sheep lane victim was found with pants and IIRC a bra. I would like to see if we could track down the Asian transvestite who spoke out publicly re: a possible POI for AC4...I'm not sure if there was Denise Hill and Pam something or if Pam might be Samantha.

(RE: Pam)http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P3-1172159461.html
"Raffo was welcomed by three men as she climbed into a large green van along with another woman named Pam. The group departed on a late-night trip to several different motel rooms.

But after one of the men - a white man with greasy black hair, a dark beard and a beer belly - began assaulting the girls with insults such as "dirty " and rambling about a 15-year prison term he served for murder, Pam decided she had heard enough and left the party. Raffo stayed.

That's the story Raffo's boyfriend, Kenny Bilecki, told The Press on …"


In the GB4 case, one could make an argument for three of the four looking somewhat like the girl next door and one (ALC) looking a bit harder. Kim Raffo and ALC were the last victims in each case.

Ah, there was one more thing: In addition to Kim Raffo who had come to AC from Florida and Barbar Breidor had previously run a multi-million dollar company in FLORIDA.

BBM

This is the first time I've seen this, K. I might have something of interest for you to go along with that. Let me double check my notes, and I'll get back to you.

 

[NoviceSleuth]

From the Namus report I noticed that she had almost perfect teeth, with only one filling. The victim apparently had good dental care from childhood. Dentists are expensive. She probably came from at least a middle (upper?) class family. Excellent teeth, an expensive necklace/charm, IMO, I think we can assume that she was not desitute - atleast not for most of her life.

 

[Just K]

I have never thought about this but the only girl (GB4) whose first name did not begin with an "M" was ALC and if we leave out the middle initial then it is simply AC. And in AC4, the James Patterson Book, "Beach Road," was left next to the bodies along with some other interesting trash... an alcohol bottle, used condoms, and men's boxer shorts.

 

[Just K]

The case has been entered in namus
http://identifyus.org/en/cases/10952

Asian Female 30=50 years old

Skeletal remains in a garbage bag partially buried in the sand. The bags are weathered and have tree roots and vegetation growing into the bags. Location is a secluded beach/sandy area off of Sheep Ln in Lattington along the Long Island Sound.

Not to nitpick but why does it say "Lattington" isn't it actually "Lattingtown?"

 

[Just K]

Quick question: This guy that Denise Hill, Pam and one other sex worker, Zandra, described as a short, dark greasy haired, pot-bellied, guy who just wanted to cry and be held and rub on DH and who wore big cheap dark sunglasses; doesn't he sound a lot like JB?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/05/nyregion/05slay.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[fred&edna]

The case has been entered in namus
http://identifyus.org/en/cases/10952

Asian Female 30=50 years old

Skeletal remains in a garbage bag partially buried in the sand. The bags are weathered and have tree roots and vegetation growing into the bags. Location is a secluded beach/sandy area off of Sheep Ln in Lattington along the Long Island Sound.

Isn't there a method to determine roughly how long the body had been there? Even a guesstimate would be helpful.

 

[Just K]

One more weird thing i just found. Some of the AC prostitutes were worried about a girl who went by the street name "Peaches"...at the time 12/22/2006 she had gotten arrested in AC. So she was accounted for at least then. I wonder if AC ever compared notes with NY/Suffolk Co. When was notorious case of "Peaches" being found in the container? Have we discussed this before? (Nevermind: that was 1997)


Here is a link to a site that has Quoted the entire original NYT article article:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...m+&cd=15&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
Here is the original link to that NYT article:
Many Leads, but No Arrests in Killings of Four Prostitutes, NYT, 23.12.2006, http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/23/nyregion/23slay.html

Look at all the named witnesses/prostitutes who were willing to speak to news reporters. Why didn't this happen in the GB4 case or JT's case? That article doesn't even mention, "Pam," Samantha the Asian transvestite or Zandra K. But in the AC case I have found the names of at least a half dozen women, who knew or knew of the AC4 and who willingly spoke to reporters.

 

[Just K]

Isn't there a method to determine roughly how long the body had been there? Even a guesstimate would be helpful.

With one of the last men they found in Manorville, they gauged it by the growth of the blueberry bush that was growing above him. He was found last year and they thought it was up to five years...IIRC. So, for him that may have been somewhere between 2006 to 2008. So far, NCPD hasn't said much more on anything growing through the BAGS (plural) at Lattingtown.