Brownsville, Tx: Police kill armed teenage student at Texas school.

[krimekat]

Picture of the pellet pistol

looks like a real weapon to me . . .

 

[tiredblondy]

looks like a real weapon to me . . .

Feels and fires like one too!

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

For those who think the police over reacted, or should have used a stun gun .. a stun gun projectile will only travel so far, and not accurate at long distances because of the trailing wires. They also don't travel at the same rate of speed as a bullet that may be coming at you or others. I'm sure in the split second that LE had to react, they made the right decision. Good news if any is, the other parents will be getting their children home alive, and the police officers on call will go home to their families tonight, albeit with heavy hearts I'm sure.

 

[annalia]

Gee, this may be too simplistic but maybe they need to stop making pellet guns that look so much like a real dangerous weapon! Seriously, how hard is it to make sure that there's something on the gun that can't be removed to make sure it's distinguishable from a real weapon?

My heart breaks for all involved. Even for this boy, we don't know anything about him yet or what drove him to do what he did, do we? Just because he was 15 doesn't mean he couldn't have been bullied, there are many small 15 year olds, especially if it was known that he had any issues going on. Middle schoolers can be pretty harsh when it comes to bullying.

LE did have a job to do, they had to look at the larger picture, saving the lives of the others in the school. Although at first it sounded excessive to me, after seeing those pictures and police needing to act in a split second after this boy engaged them, they didn't really have any choice, too many lives at stake. My heart breaks for them too, it must take a toll on them too, even though they're there to do a job, police officers are human and probably have kids themselves.

It's so senseless and sad all the way around.

JMHO

 

[Kimberlyd125]

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/br...oot-kill-armed-grade-8-student-136722313.html


Snipped:
The 15-year-old "had plenty of opportunities to lower the gun and listen to the officers' orders, and he didn't want to," interim police Chief Orlando Rodriguez said.

Shortly before the confrontation, Jaime Gonzalez had walked into a classroom and punched a random boy in the nose for no apparent reason. Police did not know why he pulled out the weapon.

"We think it looks like this was a way to bring attention to himself," the police chief said.



Also Snipped:
The boy's father, Jaime Gonzalez Sr., was struggling to reconcile the day's events, saying his son seemed to be doing better in school and was always helpful around the neighbourhood mowing neighbours' lawns, washing dogs and carrying his toolbox off to fix other kids' bikes.

Both he and his wife, Noralva, questioned why police repeatedly shot at their son and called the shooting unjustified.

"Why was so much excess force used on a minor?" he asked. "Three shots. Why not one that would bring him down?"

His wife, who demanded that the officers be punished, added: "What happened was an injustice."




*I see a lawsuit coming!
But, IMO LE's actions seem to be on the up and up.

 

[angelmom]

Gee, this may be too simplistic but maybe they need to stop making pellet guns that look so much like a real dangerous weapon! Seriously, how hard is it to make sure that there's something on the gun that can't be removed to make sure it's distinguishable from a real weapon?

I'm right there with you. Unfortunately, for whatever the reason, the manufacturers and customers take great pride in the fact that the guns not only look just like the real thing, but also weigh the same and feel the same when you pull the trigger. See my links above for the many occasions when this has caused a problem, sometimes fatal.

I never knew these existed until I saw a kid walking through our neighborhood with one and almost had a heart attack. I was about to call 911 when my son told me what it was. Of course, he also told me that the kid thought it was funny to shoot people with it, even if they weren't "playing" and had no protective gear. Seriously? Where were those parents???


I understand the anguish of this young man's parents, but they cannot blame LE for this one. It must be very hard to accept that your child brought about his own death, whether with a gun or drugs or driving recklessly. It may be harder if they bought him this "toy." I wouldn't wish their pain on anyone and hope they find some peace eventually.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/05/9978619-texas-police-defend-shooting-of-8th-grader

A recording of police radio traffic posted on KGBT-TV's website indicates that officers responding to the school believed the teen had a handgun. An officer is heard describing the teen's clothes and appearance, saying he's "holding a handgun, black in color." The officer also said that from the front door, he could see the boy in the school's main office.

Less than two minutes later, someone yells over the radio "shots fired" and emergency crews are asked to respond. About two minutes later, someone asks where the boy was shot, prompting responses that he was shot in the chest and "from the back of the head."

According to radio records, police repeatedly asked Gonzalez to put down the weapon, and then one officer yelled, "Take him out," reported The Brownsville Herald.

Two officers fired three shots, hitting Gonzalez at least twice, police said.

They then immediately called for emergency medical personnel as an officer said on the radio, "Subject shot," according to The Brownsville Herald.

David A. Dusenbury, a retired deputy police chief in Long Beach, Calif., who now consults on police tactics, said the officers were probably justified.

 

[angelmom]

Seriously? WTH is wrong with people?


Texas police receive death threats after shooting teen

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...ice-receive-death-threats-after-shooting-teen

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Seriously? WTH is wrong with people?


Texas police receive death threats after shooting teen

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...ice-receive-death-threats-after-shooting-teen

Ignorance!

 

[~n/t~]

The shot in the back of the head is troubling. Was he surrounded? In other words, one or 2 cops in front and another in the back? Cop shoots at the chest and the other behind him fires at his head?

If he was shot in the chest first, wouldn't he have gone down immediately? Why a second shot to the head?

Just trying to piece together the crime scene and trying to understand how it all went down.

 

[Nova]

He had a gun.
Everyone around him was at risk.

IMO it was not excessive. It was needed.

JMO

Kimberly and I so rarely agree, I don't want to miss an opportunity. As some will know from other threads, I am not a fan of guns and I think Americans on the whole are much too heavily armed.

But when it comes to dealing with an armed suspect, I think we have to let police officers respond "with extreme prejudice". (Is that a real phrase or just something they say on TV?)

Much of the time, what seems like overkill (suspect shot 16 times, for example) is simply a matter of a number of officers responding at the same time. We can't require the police to telepathically agree on a shooting order, so of course they will all shoot at once. Any other policy puts their lives in greater danger.

I know the deceased in this case was a troubled 15-year-old. But from the police perspective, that didn't make his gun any less deadly.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

The shot in the back of the head is troubling. Was he surrounded? In other words, one or 2 cops in front and another in the back? Cop shoots at the chest and the other behind him fires at his head?

If he was shot in the chest first, wouldn't he have gone down immediately? Why a second shot to the head?

Just trying to piece together the crime scene and trying to understand how it all went down.

From what I understand, both cops fired at once.

I may be wrong. But that's how I'm reading it.

 

[Nova]

Gee, this may be too simplistic but maybe they need to stop making pellet guns that look so much like a real dangerous weapon! Seriously, how hard is it to make sure that there's something on the gun that can't be removed to make sure it's distinguishable from a real weapon?

My heart breaks for all involved. Even for this boy, we don't know anything about him yet or what drove him to do what he did, do we? Just because he was 15 doesn't mean he couldn't have been bullied, there are many small 15 year olds, especially if it was known that he had any issues going on. Middle schoolers can be pretty harsh when it comes to bullying.

LE did have a job to do, they had to look at the larger picture, saving the lives of the others in the school. Although at first it sounded excessive to me, after seeing those pictures and police needing to act in a split second after this boy engaged them, they didn't really have any choice, too many lives at stake. My heart breaks for them too, it must take a toll on them too, even though they're there to do a job, police officers are human and probably have kids themselves.

It's so senseless and sad all the way around.

JMHO

I agree with this post and have a question for those who follow constitutional law. Is there any reason why we couldn't have laws that require toy guns to be made in certain bright colors and pellet guns to be made in others? (I suppose we'd have to also require that real guns NOT be made in those colors.)

This doesn't seem to be a 2nd amendment issue. Is it a 1st amendment problem?

 

[angelmom]

I agree with this post and have a question for those who follow constitutional law. Is there any reason why we couldn't have laws that require toy guns to be made in certain bright colors and pellet guns to be made in others? (I suppose we'd have to also require that real guns NOT be made in those colors.)

This doesn't seem to be a 2nd amendment issue. Is it a 1st amendment problem?

I have no idea. I know that the bright orange tip is required of the manufacturer and retailer - which baffles me since there are so many angles at which it wouldn't show - but I also know that many people remove them or paint them black. Even people with no malicious motives.

 

[Nova]

I have no idea. I know that the bright orange tip is required of the manufacturer and retailer - which baffles me since there are so many angles at which it wouldn't show - but I also know that many people remove them or paint them black. Even people with no malicious motives.

It seems to me that toy guns could be neon orange all over. Kids can use their imaginations. (Hell, on Christmas day my grandson "shot" me with a gun-shaped slice of pizza via Skype!)

I don't know what the pellet guns are used for. Hunting? If so, maybe they need to be green.

Yes, some people will repaint the toys to look real (and that will be illegal and chargeable).

I just don't see any compelling reason why toys have to look real.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Kimberly and I so rarely agree, I don't want to miss an opportunity. As some will know from other threads, I am not a fan of guns and I think Americans on the whole are much too heavily armed.

But when it comes to dealing with an armed suspect, I think we have to let police officers respond "with extreme prejudice". (Is that a real phrase or just something they say on TV?)

Much of the time, what seems like overkill (suspect shot 16 times, for example) is simply a matter of a number of officers responding at the same time. We can't require the police to telepathically agree on a shooting order, so of course they will all shoot at once. Any other policy puts their lives in greater danger.

I know the deceased in this case was a troubled 15-year-old. But from the police perspective, that didn't make his gun any less deadly.

We agree sometimes. When you are being sensible. :smile:

 

[Nova]

We agree sometimes. When you are being sensible. :smile:

I knew there was an explanation! :blowkiss:

 

[Reality Orlando]

my bolding

I agree, what a tragedy. It's so senseless, so many thoughts run through your mind, what was the boy thinking, what drove him to this, did the officers have any other choice, emotional toll on the parents, on the other students, heartbreaking.

My first thought too was why not shoot him to disarm him but not kill him. Hopefully we will hear more details. It does sound drastic. If he pulled a gun on the officers ready to shoot they may not have had a choice.

Thank God no other students or faculty were hurt or killed.

I doubt there was any thought to shoot to disarm with what was probably hundreds of innocent children who could have been hit by stray bullets. You miss and that kid could have emptied a clip and killed however many kids that matched the number of bullets in his gun. I know it sounds harsh, but it's ALWAYS about the innocent first.

 

[Reality Orlando]

THis student was 15 yrs old. I don't think he was bullied, imo, he was probably a bully himself. He was 2 years behind so he was likely truant a lot and probably a big troublemaker. That's just my gut feeling. I think LE did what they had to do. There was no reason for that teenager to have a gun at school other than to do harm to others. imoo

ETA: I worked in a public middle school for a decade. Believe me,the 15 yr old 8th graders were not typically the victims of bullies. It was usually the other way around.

Ditto, worked security at a middle school for 12 years. He knew what he was doing...especially at 15. Believe me...there is no tasing a kid with a gun in a long hallway. You tell him to put it down and if not...you then do what it takes to protect all the innocent kids who could get caught up in gunfire. These are split second decisions and NEVER easy. I pray for the officer who had to make that decision and am thankful none of the other children on campus were injured or killed.

 

[angelmom]

It seems to me that toy guns could be neon orange all over. Kids can use their imaginations. (Hell, on Christmas day my grandson "shot" me with a gun-shaped slice of pizza via Skype!)

I don't know what the pellet guns are used for. Hunting? If so, maybe they need to be green.

Yes, some people will repaint the toys to look real (and that will be illegal and chargeable).

I just don't see any compelling reason why toys have to look real.

BBM...they are literally used as toys. People shoot each other with them. Like paintball guns. Only it is really "cool" for them to look and feel as real as possible. I do not get it.

This is the video from a lock in last New Year's Eve. These guys are the size of adults, but "lock in" makes me think high school students.

http://youtu.be/DvwuL8uPJfs