Burke did NOT kill JonBenet

[Swirlz]

MR. LEVIN (prosecutor): I understand your position. In addition to those questions, there are some others that I would like you to think about whether or not we can have Mrs. Ramsey perhaps in the future answer. I understand you are advising her not to today, and those are there are black fibers that, according to our testing that was conducted, that match one of the two shirts that was provided to us by the Ramseys, [John Ramsey's] black shirt. Those are located in the underpants of JonBenet Ramsey, were found in her crotch area, and I believe those are two other areas that we have intended to ask Mrs. Ramsey about if she could help us in explaining their presence in those locations.

Bruce Levin (attorney with the DA's office): Based on the state of the art scientific testing, we believe the fibers from her [Patsy's] jacket were found in the paint tray, were found tied into the ligature found on JonBenet's neck, were found on the blanket that she is wrapped in, were found on the duct tape that is found on the mouth, and the question is: can she explain to us how those fibers appeared in those places that are associated with her daughter's death? And I understand you are not going to answer those.

How is this "weak evidence" simply because it does not align with what you want to believe?

 

[Ponytale]

I'm not arguing the fact that there is fiber evidence found, I'm merely stating that there is no way to ever tell or prove how and when the fibers got there exactly - to prove it beyond reasonable doubt, to the point that it can be accepted as actual evidence.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

The child abuse expert's opinion was that SA was preformed with a foreign object. The evidence of fibers in her vulva indicate that area having been wiped with a cotton towel by John who's sweater fibers link him. How did John's fibers land there if he didn't wipe her? Are you suggesting he's cleaning up after Burke? Then where are Burke's fibers? John didn't wipe well enough to eliminate all of his own fibers. How did manage to remove Burke's?

Blood is in the crotch of size 12 underpants. Are you suggesting she was walking around in those prior to having been knocked unconscious? How would a slender 6 yr. old have been able to walk in size 12 underpants?

O.k. just to clarify your theory, what you're suggesting is that earlier in the evening, someone sexually assaulted her and then she pulled up size 12 underpants and bled into the crotch and then Burke struck her and then a parent proceeded to wipe down her pubic area and strangle her to death to cover for Burke.

Many of these points have been explained over and over to you.
It is not any stretch of the imagination for her to have had worn the large bloomies under the velvet leggings.The legging would have kept them in place. Its easy to try for yourself. The bigger question is who at the party may have helped her in the restroom and and saw the undergarments she was wearing.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

Video footage of Burke's interview with a mental health professional can easily be found on YouTube. A member of law enforcement self-published a book in 2011 blaming Burke. Trust me, there's no explosive Burke evidence that is being hidden because he was a minor at the time.

You do not know this to be fact.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

Video footage of Burke's interview with a mental health professional can easily be found on YouTube. A member of law enforcement self-published a book in 2011 blaming Burke. Trust me, there's no explosive Burke evidence that is being hidden because he was a minor at the time.

The one where he acts out striking her over the head? And gets giddy and gleeful about the press coming to see him at school?

 

[CrimeTheorist]

Everyone should check out "The Ramsey Case" on YouTube. They have a short called "John and Patsy Ramsey asked about the Burke did it theory." To me it seems like JR and PR aren't as good at lying as I thought. If you think they did it than they always seemed like good enough liars that someone might believe them but when asked if BR did it, they seem no longer able to be so convincing, imo.

Also, If anyone knows where I can find the rest of that interview that would be helpful. Thanks.

 

[Swirlz]

The one where he acts out striking her over the head? And gets giddy and gleeful about the press coming to see him at school?

The one where the conclusion of the child psych who was interviewing him was that he was a possible victim of abuse himself. The one conducted by Susanne Bernhard who was part of Boulder social services. Boulder social services, according to Linda Arndt, believed John was responsible for SA.

 

[Swirlz]

I'm not arguing the fact that there is fiber evidence found, I'm merely stating that there is no way to ever tell or prove how and when the fibers got there exactly - to prove it beyond reasonable doubt, to the point that it can be accepted as actual evidence.

You're suggesting John's sweater fibers being found along with her blood in JBR's underpants crotch and vulva, aren't evidence? This doesn't count as evidence? We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Swirlz]

You do not know this to be fact.

It's a fact that portions of an interview BR gave a mental health professional at age 9 are on YouTube. It is a fact a member of law enforcement self-published a book blaming BR who was a minor at the time of the homicide. It is therefore logical to deduce that there isn't any particular evidence being hidden from the public simply because BR happened to be a minor at the time of the incident.

 

[Swirlz]

Many of these points have been explained over and over to you.
It is not any stretch of the imagination for her to have had worn the large bloomies under the velvet leggings.The legging would have kept them in place. Its easy to try for yourself. The bigger question is who at the party may have helped her in the restroom and and saw the undergarments she was wearing.

Yes, I get it that people want to believe JBR was walking around in size 12 underpants Patsy said she didn't noticed when she undressed JBR for bed and that she was sexually assaulted by Burke before she put those on and then she touched John's sweater and then touched herself/underpants and I'm still not sure how exactly that fits with her pubic area having been wiped with a damp cotton towel but I'm sure the people who want Burke to be guilty will figure a way to fit it all in.

Size 12 underpants would've been bulky and obvious under velvet pants.

 

[Swirlz]

Everyone should check out "The Ramsey Case" on YouTube. They have a short called "John and Patsy Ramsey asked about the Burke did it theory." To me it seems like JR and PR aren't as good at lying as I thought. If you think they did it than they always seemed like good enough liars that someone might believe them but when asked if BR did it, they seem no longer able to be so convincing, imo.

Also, If anyone knows where I can find the rest of that interview that would be helpful. Thanks.

What did they say that led you to believe they were less convincing when being asked about Burke than when being asked whether or not they, themselves were the killers?

 

[Ponytale]

You're suggesting John's sweater fibers being found along with her blood in JBR's underpants crotch and vulva, aren't evidence? This doesn't count as evidence? We'll have to agree to disagree.

No, I'm not arguing the fibers that are already matched to the source.
I'm saying that when found fibers are proven to be from a certain person/item, it does not prove that this person is responsible for something - it only proves that the person was there or was in contact with the place/item where the fibers were found.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

Yes, I get it that people want to believe JBR was walking around in size 12 underpants Patsy said she didn't noticed when she undressed JBR for bed and that she was sexually assaulted by Burke before she put those on and then she touched John's sweater and then touched herself/underpants and I'm still not sure how exactly that fits with her pubic area having been wiped with a damp cotton towel but I'm sure the people who want Burke to be guilty will figure a way to fit it all in.

Size 12 underpants would've been bulky and obvious under velvet pants.

If you are of the theory PR or JR may be responsible. Why do you take what they say as fact? How can we prove or disprove that JB may have put them on herself?
There are plenty of areas with the BR. PR, or JR that go into gray areas.
Those long johns also could have been chosen by the parents to explain away any BR DNA if found as they were his.
The fibers and DNA of all family members are hard to pin down. The GJ felt that it was a very hard case to pun down. They had suspicions. Until I see what they were presented with I have my own theory. I listen to other theories and I am open to possibilities. I happen to have a different theory than say Clouded Truth but I find the posters information based closely on facts that could go either direction.
It is insulting to everyone's intelligence that do not subscribe to your personal theory, to say that BR theorists don't take facts or what is in front of us into consideration and just want to pin a hideous crime on a kid because it is more salacious.
I hope folks can debunk my theories with facts but if not. you won't beat anything into my head based on unknowns.

 

[Swirlz]

Frequently I have asked Burke theorists to explain their reasoning and have asked what evidence specifically draws them to the conclusion Burke is the killer. I'm almost always met with silence. If I get a reply at all they usually either say that it is simply their theory and that they don't need evidence or just that they don't believe the parents would cover for each other.

 

[GRT]

How is this "weak evidence" simply because it does not align with what you want to believe?

RSBM...

Something as simple as washing family members' laundry together could easily explain the fibers. Even when drying separate loads of laundry, fibers can be left in the dryer and come off on the next load that's dried.

The fiber story might make sense if the fibers belonged to the clothing of someone not in the family, but since they all lived together, it's nonsensical.

 

[GRT]

Frequently I have asked Burke theorists to explain their reasoning and have asked what evidence specifically draws them to the conclusion Burke is the killer. I'm almost always met with silence. If I get a reply at all they usually either say that it is simply their theory and that they don't need evidence or just that they don't believe the parents would cover for each other.

I don't think any of the Ramseys were the killer. I think the Sheriff's Dept. dropped the ball. But now, with a new Sheriff in town, maybe we'll finally see some real investigation.

MOO

 

[Swirlz]

RSBM...

Something as simple as washing family members' laundry together could easily explain the fibers. Even when drying separate loads of laundry, fibers can be left in the dryer and come off on the next load that's dried.

The fiber story might make sense if the fibers belonged to the clothing of someone not in the family, but since they all lived together, it's nonsensical.

The R's were asked extensive questions about laundering. The sweater had never been worn before and presumably, neither had the underpants which were a size 12 and had been purchased for a relative's child. Her lower regions had been wiped with a damp towel. The sweater fibers were found along with JBR's blood in her vulva area.

 

[GRT]

The R's were asked extensive questions about laundering. The sweater had never been worn before and presumably, neither had the underpants which were a size 12 and had been purchased for a relative's child. Her lower regions had been wiped with a damp towel. The sweater fibers were found along with JBR's blood in her vulva area.

Still, if you look at the photos of the house, the Ramseys were messy. They left clothes lying in heaps on the floor and on chairs.

The fibers are a non-starter. MOO

 

[Swirlz]

Still, if you look at the photos of the house, the Ramseys were messy. They left clothes lying in heaps on the floor and on chairs.

The fibers are a non-starter. MOO

O.k. but just to be clear, you believe the intruder theory.

 

[GRT]

O.k. but just to be clear, you believe the intruder theory.

I tend to lean toward Fleet.