CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #11

[rosesfromangels]

We cannot compare B's planned trip to her past trips.
The dynamics on the home front may have changed a great deal since then.
The mental health of certain persons may have been in decline since then. They may have anxiety or depression. We do not know; but I'm looking for motive.

Very good post. Yes, any cognitive changes could play a role in this.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[rosesfromangels]

As far as we know the personal dynamics have remained the same.

There could be all sorts of things that could show a motive for murder in this case.

Until we see some evidence that a murder took place it's hard for me to jump on board that BT was murdered by anyone. JMO.

You are correct. There hasn’t been anything shared with the public that suggest foul play.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[MsBetsy]

As far as we know the personal dynamics have remained the same.

There could be all sorts of things that could show a motive for murder in this case.

Until we see some evidence that a murder took place it's hard for me to jump on board that BT was murdered by anyone. JMO.

Yeah, it's hard to speculate about motive when there is no suspect, no evidence of a crime, and we have no idea where Barbara is or what happened to her.
We can't even be sure that she is no longer alive, but from everything we know I think most assume she is deceased. Imo

 

[LietKynes]

Some part of me wants to be totally wrong and she is just in hiding for reasons known only to herself.
I don't know why Barbara's case has captivated me.
She just seemed like a gentle spirited person who enjoyed life to its' fullest.

 

[al66pine]

Judicial Procedure & Missing Persons

This is what I always thought until I followed the Michael Chambers case in my home state. Check it out. His wife started proceedings to have his Estate settled within a few weeks of going missing. Defies all I have ever read about missing persons here in Texas, but she made it happen. Lots of discussion about this "piece of paper" which turned out to be a death certificate issued within 4 or 5 months from him going missing.

TX - TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #1

@nannymo Thanks for your post re unusual case. bbm Maybe I have not read far enough in Chambers thread to follow all this ^, but seems it is/was not a DeathCert. Thread #1, post 915 by Pmerle00 in July 2017 said the 'piece of paper' was Letters Testamentary.

Regardless of terminology which varies among different states, there are statutory procedures allowing a judge to rule, under certain circumstances and w sufficient evidence that a requesting party (typically the spouse) is permitted to handle finances of a MisPers. Typically the spouse's authority to act continues until the MisPers returns, is found dead, or until the statutory period passes, usu 5 yr to 7 yrs.
The procedure does not allow spouse or rep to transfer or distribute the MisPers' estate in its entirety as if he was actually dead. That does not/cannot happen until 5 yrs missing in AZ. After that pt, spouse or rep can file approp doc's to have MisPers declared dead, and w sufficient evd, judge can order that MisPers will be probated and prop be distributed; if no will then prop is distributed per AZ intestacy statutes.

Often used where MisPers has a business and has not delegated authority to an employee within the business to handle finances and other bus decisions in his/her absence. Often a mom and pop biz, or other small co. While MisPers is gone, w judge's order, co still operate, produce widgets, pay payroll, loans, utility bills, etc. Otherwise if no one has auth to handle business, etc, such a co would just shut down. A MisPers could return to no business at all, in 1 - 3- 5 yrs.
Procedure can be used when a MisPers has no business, just a family/household, if MisPers has 'everything' in his/her name, and left no auth'zation for spouse or anyone else to handle. From what I read in Chambers thread, maybe this is what happened. IDK.

Back to RT & BT. It's possible RT could file petition w court to be permitted to handle finances for BT, if her signature is required for certain transactions. No discussion yet on threads about how their various properties, assets, a/cs were registered/titled, not as facts AFAIK.

 

[PaulaDC]

Did the kennel employe

8:10 I was told.
--
dbdb11, Aug 8, 2019 #856
CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #5
---
The source for last sighting is a neighbour's surveillance cam. I'm still waiting to see this footage, but I am trusting the source.
--
dbdb11, Jul 27, 2019 #979
CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #3
---

815 am on morning of 12th
--
dbdb11, Jul 26, 2019 #869
CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #3
---
Imho, it only makes sense they would've taken the dog to the kennel on their way OUT, while getting on their way for their camping trip, and especially since the neighbor's CCTV sighting never mentioned recording them leaving *twice* (first to take the dog, then to come back home and leave again)?

However, given RT's apparent aversion to making stops in parking lots with his RV attached, it's quite possible they first left to take the dog, returned home to attach the RV, and then left on their trip - but then where is the recording of *both* of those movements of leaving the home? Also, good point about checking both times for accuracy, since the two times are so close.

Given that RT then stopped some 45 minutes later just for a bag of ice seems a bit odd. Seems they knew how to plan, as seen by dropping the dog, letting BT's relatives know she'd be unreachable due to camping trip, and I don't think we have heard about a fuel stop - which would suggest he'd already filled up in anticipation of this trip. Why not also have purchased the ice, which would've been a known requirement for this trip? Stick ice in freezer until ready to roll. Makes one wonder about the possibility of a different motive for making that particular stop?

Not to doubt the neighbor, but as far as we have heard, that footage has not been shown to our VI for confirmation, or to see the final sighting of his aunt. Why not? Is it somewhat subjective as to whether or not B is in the footage? Is it possible the recording caught something that looked like (perhaps with prompting) it *could* have been a person, namely BT in the passenger seat? It would be great to have more details of the angle/view caught by this camera. Is it possible the neighbor is supporting RT, being his neighbor?

Did the kennel employees know Barbara by appearance? Was she a regular enough customer that they recognized her? Did the kennel have video of her? If so did she have on any of the clothing items or accessories she was reported to have had on when she went missing? Did their surveillance video catch if the 5th wheel was attached to the truck?

 

[PaulaDC]

I don't know what kind of phone he had. But I have "location services" turned on (which is the default, since you want maps to work for directions); it shows exactly where I drove yesterday, including the roads I took and how long I was at a given location. Timeline doesn't show where I went for a walk today, yet, but it's shown previous walks (including the exact trails I took.)

If you have an Android phone, you can try this out: Sign in - Google Accounts

But you could leave your phone behind at say a cave or something and it would track your phone and not your physical whereabouts. Newer vehicles would track you without a phone, correct?

 

[MsBetsy]

Did the kennel employe

Did the kennel employees know Barbara by appearance? Was she a regular enough customer that they recognized her? Did the kennel have video of her? If so did she have on any of the clothing items or accessories she was reported to have had on when she went missing? Did their surveillance video catch if the 5th wheel was attached to the truck?

I don't think we know if they had surveillance cameras. Apparently LE did not speak to the staff as part of the investigation.

All we know is what the VI said, which was she went there at 8:10 and then both were seen leaving the home by neighbor at 8:15. (If I'm remembering the time correctly) so I would assume she dropped the dog off first and then returned to the house.
One person told him Barbara seemed agitated and not herself and another said she appeared to be her normal self. Imo

 

[PaulaDC]

The fact that Barbara was planning to travel to Hong Kong within days is, to me, the red flag. Huge.
Someone may have thought she wasn't going to return.
Someone may have thought she was planning to help her family member financially, and disapproved.
Someone may have feared a loss of confidentiality.
Loss of money? Lack of control? Both?

Maybe the money was all ready "lost".........that would be a big ordeal. Moo

 

[Gardener1850]

I stopped following Barbara's threads a couple threads ago but I thought of her again when I saw this Unidentified case entering into NAMUS: The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

UID Thread: AZ - AZ - Mohave Co, UnkRace, UnkSex, Partial Skull, No Teeth, Lake Havasu City, UP60468, 31 Aug 2019

No Sex
No Race
No Age
Only a partial skull found on Aug 31, 2019.

It's not near the area where Barbara was supposedly hiking but I felt the location was interesting:
Google Maps

Google Maps

MOO.

 

[PaulR]

But you could leave your phone behind at say a cave or something and it would track your phone and not your physical whereabouts. Newer vehicles would track you without a phone, correct?

Yes and no. Pure phone location by using location services (which includes not just GPS but cell tower information, etc.) would pin a given location. But it's also obvious that the phone isn't actually moving, that someone just put it down. Many smartphones have sensors that indicate movement, this is how fitness apps can keep track of how many steps you are taking, for instance.

So (for example) if RT said that he spent an hour searching every nook and cranny when he was chilling in the RV drinking beer, the police would be able to spot that lie in relatively short order, assuming he had his phone with him. That's not including smartwatches, fitness devices, etc. all of which have sensors.

For cars: At the very least, vehicles with navigation systems would have to know where you were at any given time just so the map works, but there are other sensors as well especially in modern cars, not to mention if you have one of those devices that measures how fast you go/how far you drive for insurance purposes. I know I can turn my car into a WiFi hotspot, and that would be tracked by cell tower activity easily.

 

[scaredtopost]

BBM, has anyone done a FOIA request for a copy of the call? Aren't 911 calls required to be available for public access? I'm assuming it varies by state, but just curious if there is a way to obtain it.
JMO, MOO, etc

BBM
Ita.
Isn't that an understatement.
Better take a ticket... going to be a while.

I also would like to hear the 911 call.
Just to hear what was said ; and if it was matter-of-fact, or panicked ?
Imo.

 

[LietKynes]

BBM, has anyone done a FOIA request for a copy of the call? Aren't 911 calls required to be available for public access? I'm assuming it varies by state, but just curious if there is a way to obtain it.
JMO, MOO, etc

When I asked this before, the VI and/or Barbara's son had requested it, I think.
And LE said they're not releasing it at this time as it's an open investigation.
Imo.

 

[LAhiker]

BBM, has anyone done a FOIA request for a copy of the call? Aren't 911 calls required to be available for public access? I'm assuming it varies by state, but just curious if there is a way to obtain it.
JMO, MOO, etc

I don't know whether it was a FOIA request, but IIRC @dbdb11 filled out some paperwork requesting the call and they said no, that it was part of an ongoing investigation. JMO

 

[PaulaDC]

I stopped following Barbara's threads a couple threads ago but I thought of her again when I saw this Unidentified case entering into NAMUS: The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

UID Thread: AZ - AZ - Mohave Co, UnkRace, UnkSex, Partial Skull, No Teeth, Lake Havasu City, UP60468, 31 Aug 2019

No Sex
No Race
No Age
Only a partial skull found on Aug 31, 2019.

It's not near the area where Barbara was supposedly hiking but I felt the location was interesting:
Google Maps

Google Maps

MOO.

This turns my stomach for whomever loved this person.

 

[Traymar]

So... I think I missed or forgot something. RT notifed Barb's family prior to the hiking trip (how long was it supposed to last?) that she'd be out of pocket, as it were, for a few days so they wouldn't worry needlessly if they couldn't reach her (and/or wouldn't therefore sound the alarm in such an event?) during that time? But once she's missing he doesn't contact any of them?

This makes no sense to me. The first thing is a thoughtful but not strictly necessary gesture, but the latter is by all expectations of decent human behavior a given (I want to say duty, but I won't).

Anyway, I knew he hadn't notified her family of her disappearance in a timely manner, but for some reason I either missed or had forgotten the information about his pre-trip communication with them. I am having troubling reconciling one with the other.

Had he NOT reached out pre-trip I would find his post-Barb's-disappearance lack of communication less suspicious. Not acceptable (IMO), but less suspicious, as I could chalk it up to his being not the most conscientious person in the world or something.

However, unless I have misunderstood something here, these two examples of RT's communication (and when and under what circumstances he feels compelled or is sufficiently motivated to notify family members of things) with BT's family seem wholly inconsistent and therefore... puzzling.

Sorry, I am sure this has been discussed ad nauseam, but it just jumped out at me while reading the last dozen or so posts.

MOO

 

[LAhiker]

So... I think I missed or forgot something. RT notifed Barb's family prior to the hiking trip (how long was it supposed to last?) that she'd be out of pocket, as it were, for a few days so they wouldn't worry needlessly if they couldn't reach her (and/or wouldn't therefore sound the alarm in such an event?) during that time? But once she's missing he doesn't contact any of them?

This makes no sense to me. The first thing is a thoughtful but not strictly necessary gesture, but the latter is by all expectations of decent human behavior a given (I want to say duty, but I won't).

Anyway, I knew he hadn't notified her family of her disappearance in a timely manner, but for some reason I either missed or had forgotten the information about his pre-trip communication with them. I am having troubling reconciling one with the other.

Had he NOT reached out pre-trip I would find his post-Barb's-disappearance lack of communication less suspicious. Not acceptable (IMO), but less suspicious, as I could chalk it up to his being not the most conscientious person in the world or something.

However, unless I have misunderstood something here, these two examples of RT's communication (and when and under what circumstances he feels compelled or is sufficiently motivated to notify family members of things) with BT's family seem wholly inconsistent and therefore... puzzling.

Sorry, I am sure this has been discussed ad nauseam, but it just jumped out at me while reading the last dozen or so posts.

MOO

I believe it was BT, not RT, who told her family that they'd be camping and thus unreachable for a few days. JMO

 

[al66pine]

Which Accts are Held by RT & BT as JtTen w Rt of Surv?

... Right now, all their joint assets (house, probably truck and trailer, maybe airplane) are in his control. If she doesn't show up, he can write a will and dispense these items to whomever he likes upon his own death. Not sure what happens if, 10 years from now, Barbara has not been declared dead. I think RT's heirs will likely have to go through that process to probate his will.

@100f Rods bbm Trying to make sure I am following ^ correctly.
Re ".... all their joint assets (house, probably truck and trailer, maybe airplane) are in his control...."
IIRC, you posted earlier, per pub records, B'City AZ home is held in jt names. Okay, good.
Do we have a similar/official basis for concluding that other props you specified ^ (probably truck, trailer, maybe airplane) are held by RT & BT, JTwRoS?

Same Q re "all their joint assets." Are all their other assets titled/registered as JTwRoS?
Examples: Bank, for checking a/c, bank money market a/c, bank CDs; Individual Retirement Account; 401(k) a/c; Brokerage a/c, Uniform Gift to Minors a/c; Partnership a/c, LLC a/c; Trust a/c?

 

[distracted]

I stopped following Barbara's threads a couple threads ago but I thought of her again when I saw this Unidentified case entering into NAMUS: The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

UID Thread: AZ - AZ - Mohave Co, UnkRace, UnkSex, Partial Skull, No Teeth, Lake Havasu City, UP60468, 31 Aug 2019

No Sex
No Race
No Age
Only a partial skull found on Aug 31, 2019.

It's not near the area where Barbara was supposedly hiking but I felt the location was interesting:
Google Maps

Google Maps

MOO.

I really don't know much about NamUs and whether you have to be a member to do a search on their website. Is there a way to see if there is a list of people who are missing in Mojave County or Clark County?

 

[mickey2942]

We were talking today about identification of bones, and skulls. It seems to me that modern dentistry is an absolute in identifying the "unknown" with a skull. Fillings vary from country to country, and even regional differences in dentistry, not to mention that the age of the person, just by identification of the age of fillings, and condition of the teeth.

Probably a lot of information about the socio-economic status can be inferred from the condition of the teeth. I hope that the partial skull found near Lake Havasu has intact teeth.