CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #11

[shanadk]

Someone recently said, "It's hard to speculate on motive..."

Well....Everything on Websleuths is speculation. There have been dozens of posts to analyze Barbara's possible financial picture . All pure speculation.

The route to the rocky overlook was straightforward, apparently; and her spouse was with her .

She appeared at the kennel around 8 am. She was alive then.

Where is she? Was Barbara was 'snatched" by a stranger in the middle of the Mojave on a 110 degree day?

 

[MsBetsy]

Someone recently said, "It's hard to speculate on motive..."

Well....Everything on Websleuths is speculation. There have been dozens of posts to analyze Barbara's possible financial picture . All pure speculation.

The route to the rocky overlook was straightforward, apparently; and her spouse was with her .

She appeared at the kennel around 8 am. She was alive then.

Where is she? Was Barbara was 'snatched" by a stranger in the middle of the Mojave on a 110 degree day?

I've never had the impression that everything on Websleuths is speculation.

From what I can tell people look closely at the evidence and they put the pieces of a puzzle together in order to solve a crime.

Any speculation on theories, motives, or suspects is supposed to be supported by evidence or facts.

At least that's the way I've always understood it.

 

[PaulR]

Which Accts are Held by RT & BT as JtTen w Rt of Surv?

@100f Rods bbm Trying to make sure I am following ^ correctly.
Re ".... all their joint assets (house, probably truck and trailer, maybe airplane) are in his control...."
IIRC, you posted earlier, per pub records, B'City AZ home is held in jt names. Okay, good.
Do we have a similar/official basis for concluding that other props you specified ^ (probably truck, trailer, maybe airplane) are held by RT & BT, JTwRoS?

Same Q re "all their joint assets." Are all their other assets titled/registered as JTwRoS?
Examples: Bank, for checking a/c, bank money market a/c, bank CDs; Individual Retirement Account; 401(k) a/c; Brokerage a/c, Uniform Gift to Minors a/c; Partnership a/c, LLC a/c; Trust a/c?

IRAs can be held in only one person's name, and I believe that is the same with a 401(k). The required distributions are calculated based off the owner's life expectancy (read: age.)

 

[PaulaDC]

We were talking today about identification of bones, and skulls. It seems to me that modern dentistry is an absolute in identifying the "unknown" with a skull. Fillings vary from country to country, and even regional differences in dentistry, not to mention that the age of the person, just by identification of the age of fillings, and condition of the teeth.

Probably a lot of information about the socio-economic status can be inferred from the condition of the teeth. I hope that the partial skull found near Lake Havasu has intact teeth.

I Believe I read no teeth. Sigh

 

[Gardener1850]

I really don't know much about NamUs and whether you have to be a member to do a search on their website. Is there a way to see if there is a list of people who are missing in Mojave County or Clark County?

No membership required to search NAMUS. Click on Missing, then at the bottom of the basic search click "advanced search" and it will let you search by county and state. The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

There are 20 persons missing in Mohave County, AZ. They range in age from 3 to 77 and cases go back to 1984. I'm familiar with some of the cases listed. At least two of the recent missing cases have already been found (Mr and Mrs McFalls) but are awaiting DNA confirmation of their remains. Raegan Heitzig was in a boating accident on a lake with many witnesses, so this is vary unlikely to be her skull.

There are some cases that are closer geographically. Cases in Lake Havasu City (17 miles from the remains) include

John Gordan Iverson, Missing since 1991: The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
AZ - AZ - John Iverson, 42, Lake Havasu City, 4 Jan 1991

Tyler Joseph Schladweiler, 3 years old, missing since 2002 (Allegedly abducted by his non-custodial mother): The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
AZ - Tyler Joseph Schladweiler (3) - Lake Havasu City AZ, 2002

There are 154 cases from Clark County, NV but that is 134 miles away from the unidentified remains: Google Maps

 

[Gardener1850]

We were talking today about identification of bones, and skulls. It seems to me that modern dentistry is an absolute in identifying the "unknown" with a skull. Fillings vary from country to country, and even regional differences in dentistry, not to mention that the age of the person, just by identification of the age of fillings, and condition of the teeth.

Probably a lot of information about the socio-economic status can be inferred from the condition of the teeth. I hope that the partial skull found near Lake Havasu has intact teeth.

No teeth were with the partial skull: AZ - AZ - Mohave Co, UnkRace, UnkSex, Partial Skull, No Teeth, Lake Havasu City, UP60468, 31 Aug 2019

 

[SH6495]

IRAs can be held in only one person's name, and I believe that is the same with a 401(k). The required distributions are calculated based off the owner's life expectancy (read: age.)

First time post here. I have been following this case and my heart goes out to Barbara and all who loved her. Especially the VI and his family. dbdb Praying for resolution soon and that your father is fairing well. Your in my thoughts daily.

As far as 401k’s go, you are correct they are in one person’s name, the individual contributing to the fund. However a beneficiary should be named when opening the account. This helps avoid any probate court problems. Not sure if a death certificate is required??? You can withdraw a portion or all of your funds and/or the portions of any employer contributions that are 100% matched at any time. The difference is, if you withdraw before the age of 59 ½, according to the federal regulations you will withdraw at a higher tax percentage rate (early withdraw penalty) then if you wait until after the 59 ½ age mark where the standard allocation will be taxed. How you manage your funds in retirement is totally up to you to ensure you are withdrawing at a rate that will hopefully sustain you the rest of your life. I am not 100% sure about IRA’s, I believe they are the same?

Hoping that Barbara is found soon.

What You Need to Know When You Inherit a 401k - 401khelpcenter.com

 

[Traymar]

I believe it was BT, not RT, who told her family that they'd be camping and thus unreachable for a few days. JMO

Okay, thanks. STILL, based on other info we've heard, I assume RT was privy to the exchange, so it seems he would therefore be more inclined to make a "follow-up" call, as it were. Anyway, I know this is a rehash, so please pardon the interruption. Carry on!

MOO, as always.

#WhereIsBarb?

 

[MimosaMornings]

If you had a family member that was missing like Barbara - would you put the missing flyer on your social media page?

 

[PommyMommy]

First time post here. I have been following this case and my heart goes out to Barbara and all who loved her. Especially the VI and his family. dbdb Praying for resolution soon and that your father is fairing well. Your in my thoughts daily.

As far as 401k’s go, you are correct they are in one person’s name, the individual contributing to the fund. However a beneficiary should be named when opening the account. This helps avoid any probate court problems. Not sure if a death certificate is required??? You can withdraw a portion or all of your funds and/or the portions of any employer contributions that are 100% matched at any time. The difference is, if you withdraw before the age of 59 ½, according to the federal regulations you will withdraw at a higher tax percentage rate (early withdraw penalty) then if you wait until after the 59 ½ age mark where the standard allocation will be taxed. How you manage your funds in retirement is totally up to you to ensure you are withdrawing at a rate that will hopefully sustain you the rest of your life. I am not 100% sure about IRA’s, I believe they are the same?

Hoping that Barbara is found soon.

What You Need to Know When You Inherit a 401k - 401khelpcenter.com

Welcome, SH6495.

Thank you for this information and for being here for Barbara.

 

[PommyMommy]

If you had a family member that was missing like Barbara - would you put the missing flyer on your social media page?

I would do that and a whole heck of a lot more. MOO

 

[10ofRods]

IRAs can be held in only one person's name, and I believe that is the same with a 401(k). The required distributions are calculated based off the owner's life expectancy (read: age.)

True. Although we have no evidence that Barbara had an IRA, she sure could have. I have a couple and they only permit one beneficiary at a time. My spouse is my beneficiary.

I do believe a death cert would be necessary to change the terms. OTOH, if a person is getting monthly checks, those would continue, I'd think.

Anyway, one of the reasons spouses are always suspect (as RT seemed to indicate in his interview) is that there's almost always a financial motive (even if it's small).

Now that I think about it, the fact that RT's own stated view is that there is foul play involved is interesting. There are only so many possibilities here and for some reason, RT has chosen to believe Barbara is the victim of foul play. The specific kind of foul play that RT thought occurred is not the foul play the police were agreeing to.

 

[10ofRods]

Which Accts are Held by RT & BT as JtTen w Rt of Surv?

@100f Rods bbm Trying to make sure I am following ^ correctly.
Re ".... all their joint assets (house, probably truck and trailer, maybe airplane) are in his control...."
IIRC, you posted earlier, per pub records, B'City AZ home is held in jt names. Okay, good.
Do we have a similar/official basis for concluding that other props you specified ^ (probably truck, trailer, maybe airplane) are held by RT & BT, JTwRoS?

Same Q re "all their joint assets." Are all their other assets titled/registered as JTwRoS?
Examples: Bank, for checking a/c, bank money market a/c, bank CDs; Individual Retirement Account; 401(k) a/c; Brokerage a/c, Uniform Gift to Minors a/c; Partnership a/c, LLC a/c; Trust a/c?

No, no info on the others. But my null hypothesis, having no other, is that RT and BT embraced the general notion of community property, as evidenced by her taking equity from her single-owned property and commingling it.

I will also say that discussion of the finances, while somewhat interesting, is also very tangential. All married parties have some form of financial interest in the relationship and therefore a financial motive (however small - as someone else said). Further, motive of any kind is exceedingly hard to establish, but I'm guessing that a prosecutorial mind could find motive between any two people who know each other.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

BT's inheritance is very unlikely to have been put in an IRA -- the purpose of those (with some exceptions) is to defer taxes until one's later years when presumed to be in a lower earnings bracket -- and her inheritance was most likely tax exempt (again, with a few specific exceptions) so no specific need for that.

Also, a question for those asking about social media publicity efforts -- do we know for sure that RT even has social media accounts?

 

[10ofRods]

We were talking today about identification of bones, and skulls. It seems to me that modern dentistry is an absolute in identifying the "unknown" with a skull. Fillings vary from country to country, and even regional differences in dentistry, not to mention that the age of the person, just by identification of the age of fillings, and condition of the teeth.

Probably a lot of information about the socio-economic status can be inferred from the condition of the teeth. I hope that the partial skull found near Lake Havasu has intact teeth.

The NAMUS entry says no teeth, sadly (which probably means it's been there for a while and subject to some weathering). Says "no sex" either, which to me means it's possible a fairly small fragment.

 

[mickey2942]

I Believe I read no teeth. Sigh

Interesting. Someone really didn't want that person identified. That is significant.

 

[SH6495]

True. Although we have no evidence that Barbara had an IRA, she sure could have. I have a couple and they only permit one beneficiary at a time. My spouse is my beneficiary.

I do believe a death cert would be necessary to change the terms. OTOH, if a person is getting monthly checks, those would continue, I'd think.

Anyway, one of the reasons spouses are always suspect (as RT seemed to indicate in his interview) is that there's almost always a financial motive (even if it's small).

Now that I think about it, the fact that RT's own stated view is that there is foul play involved is interesting. There are only so many possibilities here and for some reason, RT has chosen to believe Barbara is the victim of foul play. The specific kind of foul play that RT thought occurred is not the foul play the police were agreeing to.

Correct in regards to beneficiaries. My spouse is also my beneficiary. However, You can also name secondary beneficiaries in the event you and your spouse should perish or if something should happen between you and your spouse such as divorce. For the secondary beneficiaries, you can allocate more then one beneficiary and indicate by percentage. I.e. I have my daughter and son as my secondary beneficiaries and allocated 50% split between the two should something happen to the both of us. This impacts any IRA’s that our financial advisor is overseeing for us.

One note to add is that our financial advisor suggested we also get it put in a trust because according to him, he said that if, for instance, my spouse should die before me, and even though I am listed as a beneficiary, there are loop holes in the government policy where they (federal government) can assume the dead spouses monies. Not that they necessary do this but they can according to the law, hence, why the suggestion of opening a trust to protect the monies.

 

[SH6495]

Welcome, SH6495.

Thank you for this information and for being here for Barbara.

Thank you PommyMommy for the welcome!

 

[10ofRods]

Interesting. Someone really didn't want that person identified. That is significant.

Teeth really can fall out naturally. OTOH, in some situations (where the skull stays put and protected from elements) they stay in place for thousands of years.

Since this is a skull fragment and they can't or haven't easily sexed it, I'm assuming it's not the upper jaw. If it's the upper jaw or the back (occipital) region of the skull, it's pretty easy to sex and give age of the skull. Actually, with really good forensic analysis, it would be possible to give the age of the person at death, even from a small fragment. I didn't realize until I started hanging out here and studying all these still-missing persons cases that so many counties do not have the funds or the will to get the fancy analysis done. As I've said upthread, we don't have the means to do it at my college either, it's expensive equipment (but not such a difficult skill to learn, within forensic anthropology).

One would think that Arizona would have a state level forensic lab to do this, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if they didn't. It's sad because they have one of the best bio anth labs in the world at Northern Arizona University.

I know that WSers come from all over - but do we have anyone from Arizona??

 

[Chingaling]

If you had a family member that was missing like Barbara - would you put the missing flyer on your social media page?

Yes I most definately would.