CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #3

[IceIce9]

Trying not to violate TOS but I'm very curious because I just can't get there- to those who think Robert may be involved- what's the reason?? Why would he do this to his wife?? What's the motive here?

In ANY missing persons case where two people were together, no others besides themselves present, and one person disappeared I would ask:

Any financial issues?

Recent life insurance purchase?

Recent large purchase like expensive car, boat, etc?

Recent change in appearance? Weight loss, working out, facelift, hair transplant, etc?

New job, activities, hobbies, etc?

New friends, acquaintances, etc?

Arguments, conflicts, disagreements?

Again, these questions are not specific to this case but what I would be asking in any missing person case where the last person to see the missing person was the husband/wife/girlfriend/boyfriend etc.

 

[10ofRods]

Just throwing this out there not in an argumentative manner:
My 80+ YO father uses an iPad, mother a cell. The Thomas’ either have a comfortable retirement nest egg or credit line (as we’ve seen with the truck and RV), so it’s not a money/financial issue.

I have a feeling that there’s something more there other than she does not own a phone (did Robert take hers/carrying it in his pack for her? Initial media reports stated he was carrying it and then media changed this narrative).

Verified family member states Barbara did not, in fact, have a phone. She used his/their phone. It was in his backpack, apparently.

 

[Stragnet]

there is a scenario i will not mention again, where robbie helps her disappear.

My curiosity is piqued re: why would she want to disappear, unless you mean he did it with malicious intent and the ‘helping’ part really wasn’t ‘helping’ ....

 

[IceIce9]

No. Never. Pack your trash. Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints.

Right! When I hiked with a group down into Grand Canyon and then back up we were instructed that anything we carried with us had to be put back into our backpacks and carried back up with us.

The guide did not mince words, he specifically mentioned necessary feminine articles and toilet paper that had to be placed into a plastic bag and placed back into our backpacks.

 

[leomoon]

OT—My childhood phone in the 1950’s in the SF East Bay was LAndscape 3-8774. No area codes in those days!

But I digress.

You go back as far as I probably ...Mine was on the East Coast - Atwater 8 and Peabody 2 (I think it was the one who started the public libraries, Mr.Peabody ... This was around the time there were also no zipcodes or area codes, even in big cities. A different world then, people could trust their neighbors, some slept in the local park on park benches during the severe heat. No AC of course. But there were electric fans.

The "good old days" were never THAT good my MIL use to say, "the only thing good about the good ole' days is they're gone" ...Of course she was joking.

 

[cherrymeg]

Forgive me for asking this. Barbara and her husband wouldn't have taken any mind altering substances like LSD. I'm probably just going with desert and California equals hippies. Sorry. I'm trying to think of a reason you would lose someone you are following in a well lit flatish area.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Just throwing this out there not in an argumentative manner:
My 80+ YO father uses an iPad, mother a cell. The Thomas’ either have a comfortable retirement nest egg or credit line (as we’ve seen with the truck and RV), so it’s not a money/financial issue.

I have a feeling that there’s something more there other than she does not own a phone (did Robert take hers/carrying it in his pack for her? Initial media reports stated he was carrying it and then media changed this narrative).

Not at all taken as argumentative. I know many older adults with cell phones. But that doesn't mean that ALL older adults are comfortable with using them. I just threw those ideas out there as possible reasons why Barbara may not have wanted one.

 

[Usd2bfun]

As I understood it, I thought the point being made was that it was an odd job for someone who lacks the required communication skills to be successful in such an occupation.
Usually someone who works in sales requires an outgoing personality, or at least good communication skills.

Someone who is not a "people person" or who is a bit of a loner would not seem to be comfortable in such a position. Imo

I ‘sold’ Avon for a number of years but only so I could get it at a discount. I’m kind of shy and definitely not a sales type person. If people at work wanted things, I’d get it for them at my price but other than that, I was my best customer. Maybe Robert used the product and being a representative or distributor got him some sort of discount. I also know a couple of people who have their real estate license and don’t actively sell. They don’t flip either so not quite sure why they went thru all that. On a selfish note, it’s handy to be able to ask questions

 

[10ofRods]

Forgive me for asking this. Barbara and her husband wouldn't have taken any mind altering substances like LSD. I'm probably just going with desert and California equals hippies. Sorry. I'm trying to think of a reason you would lose someone you are following in a well lit flatish area.

Well, if it helps - they were from Arizona. And she was a Trump supporter who didn't like cell phones (that doesn't rule out using acid, but surely he wouldn't be expecting to drive on acid??? Doesn't sound like typical acid users to me - but hey, that age group does know how to party).

The trail undulates. And, if you look at the trail, there are a couple of branch trails (all leading back to the road eventually).

That's the whole mystery, though. According to the only witness (RT) he was just 10 minutes, max, behind her. According to Sroads (a WS member posting on these threads) the place where the RV was parked (and later the search vehicles were parked) was visible from most of the trail. An actual human wouldn't be visible in scrub if they rounded a trail bend. The top of the RV should have been visible and the road itself was audible (with cars going by regularly).

If she was using psychoactive drugs OR they had a fight and RT omitted this information, then boy is he culpable in this.

 

[IceIce9]

I ‘sold’ Avon for a number of years but only so I could get it at a discount. I’m kind of shy and definitely not a sales type person. If people at work wanted things, I’d get it for them at my price but other than that, I was my best customer. Maybe Robert used the product and being a representative or distributor got him some sort of discount. I also know a couple of people who have their real estate license and don’t actively sell. They don’t flip either so not quite sure why they went thru all that. On a selfish note, it’s handy to be able to ask questions

Agree with this. I “sold” Pampered Chef for several months, arranging parties with myself as hostess so I could purchase everything to completely equip my kitchen at a big discount. Not to mention free hostess gifts for every party.

I have friends who “sell” Mary Kay just so they can buy products they need at 50% discount.

I am sure this is a common practice with many types of products.

 

[lonetraveler]

But would you have just thrown the bottle on the ground? We don't put empties of anything inside our backpacks, because...sticky/messy even if only slightly damp.

She would have still been carrying her beverage container upon arrival to the RV if things had gone as planned. MOO.

As to motive, well, I'm jaded enough to believe that people can do things in the heat of passion. With no motive other than overwhelming anger, arising out of minor annoyances, IRL that does happen. Not necessarily my opinion here though.

I would definitely carry the travel mug back to the RV. I was talking about that "Beer" could not be still in the mug.

 

[topockaz]

OT—My childhood phone in the 1950’s in the SF East Bay was LAndscape 3-8774. No area codes in those days!

But I digress.

From Los Angeles, mine was CL5-4271. I have a cell phone that I only use when I'm away from home. Took it today to go to Bullhead City and yesterday to go to Laughlin. Everyone knows to call me on landline. Living here you have to have both. Cell phones don't work in certain areas.

 

[cherrymeg]

Well, if it helps - they were from Arizona. And she was a Trump supporter who didn't like cell phones (that doesn't rule out using acid, but surely he wouldn't be expecting to drive on acid??? Doesn't sound like typical acid users to me - but hey, that age group does know how to party).

The trail undulates. And, if you look at the trail, there are a couple of branch trails (all leading back to the road eventually).

That's the whole mystery, though. According to the only witness (RT) he was just 10 minutes, max, behind her. According to Sroads (a WS member posting on these threads) the place where the RV was parked (and later the search vehicles were parked) was visible from most of the trail. An actual human wouldn't be visible in scrub if they rounded a trail bend. The top of the RV should have been visible and the road itself was audible (with cars going by regularly).

If she was using psychoactive drugs OR they had a fight and RT omitted this information, then boy is he culpable in this.

It sounds hard to get lost. Not impossible. If she did make it to the desert beer seems like an odd choice for an experienced hiker. You probably shouldn't rely on someone else to have a backpack either.

 

[GordianKnot]

There are some oddball aspects to this case. One is that RT wasn't allowed into the search area and apparently did not go back to it. Why is he so committed to the abduction narrative? You'd think that a devoted husband would be keen to search in a wider area than the SAR people were searching. He clearly thinks it's near impossible that she would have wandered too far away.

The search expanded each day for 10 days which is why I think LE definitely thinks/thought she was out there. If they do have his phone records and nothing else happens, then I think it's safe to assume she's out there.

If BT had acted in any normal, experienced hiker kind of way (less than half a mile from a road, according to RT), she'd have been found. If we give RT the benefit of the doubt and he was only 10 minutes behind her, at most, then she disappeared without a trace very quickly indeed. Hence the variety of opinions here on WS. Occam's razor is hard to apply when common behavior is not observed. BT did not stay near the RV for the 10 minutes it took for RT to catch up to her? BT could not find the RV (which was apparently visible from many points along the trail)?

RSABBM:

I find RT's early leap to the abduction theory even as LE was sending out search teams, dogs, helicopters, etc., out combing the desert looking for BT inexplicable.

Well, almost inexplicable.

Unfortunately, the reasons I can think of for RT promulgating this stranger abduction theory are not innocent ones.

To your point about the phone records:

The SBSCO also investigated the disappearance/murder of Erin Corwin, and they were able to use phone info to assist them in their search for, and recovery of, her remains, but it took them considerable time, like a couple of months:

Untapped gold mine was site of Erin Corwin body

Search for missing Marine wife "like finding a needle in a thousand haystacks” - CBS News

Apparently, BT didn't have a cell phone, which is really most unfortunate, as LE could have definitely used that info.

I'm assuming RT does have a phone, though, so one would assume LE is going to be mining that electronic data to see if it in any way helps them in their efforts to locate her.

LE knows a whole lot more than they're telling us.

The fact that they aren't telling us anything other than the fact that they don't believe she's been abducted (as RT is postulating) and that they haven't found any evidence of her there (where RT states she was last seen), is in and of itself quite telling.

JMO.

 

[10ofRods]

We've definitely covered the "beer" and "experienced hiker" thing. Lots of people take beer hiking. Do they count as "experienced"? I really don't know. I agree that all truly experienced hikers always carry water. And I'm getting people whistles to carry.

However, this was more of a quick stroll to stretch legs on the way, presumably, to a campground. It's not really a hike. It's more like a roadside viewpoint (to me).

There's enough brush out there that even experienced searchers could have missed her if she was not in the expected swath of land (which was searched and cross-searched many times). I'm in between thinking she got lost seeking shade (as she couldn't find the key and he was behind by longer than 7-10 minutes) and thinking she was never there, with the first being more probable.

 

[K9Enzo]

No. Never. Pack your trash. Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints.

That’s right. Leave no trace.

Every piece of trash goes in a plastic zip-locked bag in my pack. I don’t even toss a apple core. It’s trash and packed out.

 

[IceIce9]

I’m always alert for the words that are used when one person reports another person missing.

For example, the boyfriend of a 21 year old Indiana woman called 911 to report her missing. During the 911 called he stated, "The Sacred Heart Festival is going on right up the street, and there's just a lot of questionable people there.”

 

[PaulR]

There's enough brush out there that even experienced searchers could have missed her if she was not in the expected swath of land (which was searched and cross-searched many times). I'm in between thinking she got lost seeking shade (as she couldn't find the key and he was behind by longer than 7-10 minutes) and thinking she was never there, with the first being more probable.

I'm reading about a case now - an eight year old girl separated from her parents in northern New Mexico. Even with searches which began a few hours after she went missing, she was found four days later, well outside the original search area - 3.2 miles away. Hiding in thick brush. I'm surprised they found her.

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

Just throwing this out there not in an argumentative manner:
My 80+ YO father uses an iPad, mother a cell. The Thomas’ either have a comfortable retirement nest egg or credit line (as we’ve seen with the truck and RV), so it’s not a money/financial issue.

I have a feeling that there’s something more there other than she does not own a phone (did Robert take hers/carrying it in his pack for her? Initial media reports stated he was carrying it and then media changed this narrative).

I’m glad you remembered reading that RT had her phone in his pack. I read that and I think it also said and her shirt.

 

[MntnHiker]

BT was wearing tan hiking boots and black socks which sounds like appropriate footwear to me. MOO

Also, @dbdb11 has pointed out a couple of times now that this was a walk for them (vs. a hike). Of course, you are free to choose whether you believe that or not.

One example:

Sorry I missed the hiking boots.

For me, walk and hike can be interchangeable many times. I say this as someone who is an avid hiker. I think there are times (like climbing a fourteener) that I would definitely classify it as a "hike," but walking a few miles in a forest or a desert? I would probably call that a hike, but others may say "walk" if it isn't very strenuous and mainly flat. Whatever it was to them, I hope the outcome of this is good but I have a bad feeling it won't be.