CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #7

[kkdj]

It is RT’s right to get a lawyer as we all know anything you say can and will be used against you at a later time in court. However, the mostly innocent people are usually extremely vocal and want to get word out of their innocence. RT being so quiet when his loving wife who leaves love notes on his pillow is missing, is slightly unsettling. MOO

If my child or parent or sibling went missing I would be constantly vocal in a public forum. If I had an attorney they wouldn't be able to shut me up, but would have to join in my quest.
That's the gauge of love imo.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Emph. mine

The fifth wheel was new and purchased prior to this trip.
Since he bought it recently, it could've been sold for between 50-70 k.
Not a small amount and it could be used for a reward in finding her.
And an airplane --even a smaller one-- would also help with $$ to aid in finding her.
It might bring some significant funds for her search.
But maybe he's sold it already-- so you could be right !
If you truly love someone-- you'll do anything to find them.
Including providing photos and/or an accurate description of what they were wearing.

Does anyone know if RT's sold any possessions to help find his wife ?

In some missing person's cases, a second mortgage has been taken out to find them.

Maybe he doesn’t need to sell any possessions to raise money. He would not have spent his last dollars on toys.

 

[Leney]

I don't know if this is true or not, but I have been told along some of the highways going to the river and Las Vegas there is water buried along the way. Does anyone have any knowledge of this? If true, I would think RT and BT would be aware of this, being the desert people they are.

There is an aquifer.
Since I don't have a link handy I will state IMO

Mojave Region Groundwater | USGS

 

[PommyMommy]

SBM

These cases are not a fair representation IMO
These cases, for the most part, relied heavily on CCTV to solve/piece together timelines.

How many CCTV cameras are in the desert ?

The discussion was about LE releasing the last known photo(s) or video of a missing person - read back to the post to which I was responding to in order to understand. In all of those cases, that was done - just adding to the OP's list. I wasn't suggesting there were cameras in the desert. MOO

 

[Cherwell]

The discussion was about LE releasing the last known photo(s) or video of a missing person - read back to the post to which I was responding to in order to understand. In all of those cases, that was done - just adding to the OP's list. I wasn't suggesting there were cameras in the desert. MOO

I think the point being made was that it may be useful to release photos of mispers if there's a possibility that they might be somewhere near you (general "you"). So that people can look out for them. In this case it's sadly highly unlikely that anyone is going to spot her in the street, or similar.

 

[LietKynes]

If my child or parent or sibling went missing I would be constantly vocal in a public forum. If I had an attorney they wouldn't be able to shut me up, but would have to join in my quest.
That's the gauge of love imo.

Ita.
I'd sell everything we own to find my child or spouse.
Nothing else would matter.
The press and LE would get sick of my constant pleas to the public and begging for more information or help with the search.
Plus I'd be out at that desert whenever I could , looking for him/them.
But everyone's different.

 

[PommyMommy]

I think the point being made was that it may be useful to release photos of mispers if there's a possibility that they might be somewhere near you (general "you"). So that people can look out for them. In this case it's sadly highly unlikely that anyone is going to spot her in the street, or similar.

It was unlikely in the majority of the other cases as well. MOO

 

[LietKynes]

Maybe he doesn’t need to sell any possessions to raise money. He would not have spent his last dollars on toys.

True.
He might have money we don't know about.

 

[PommyMommy]

Maybe he doesn’t need to sell any possessions to raise money. He would not have spent his last dollars on toys.

How much does a missing person's advocate cost? AFAIK, they operate as non-profit agencies and don't charge the family anything for their services... MOO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

How much does a missing person's advocate cost? AFAIK, they operate as non-profit agencies and don't charge the family anything for their services... MOO

That's a good idea. Any member of BT's family should contact one of these organizations for help. JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

I think the point being made was that it may be useful to release photos of mispers if there's a possibility that they might be somewhere near you (general "you"). So that people can look out for them. In this case it's sadly highly unlikely that anyone is going to spot her in the street, or similar.

In those cases there were also indications of foul play. If LE believed there was a chance Barbara was abducted then it would probably be more likely to release the last known image of her that day.
Maybe they just don't have a good picture of what she looked like, if there were pictures of her. Imo

 

[10ofRods]

There is an aquifer.
Since I don't have a link handy I will state IMO

Mojave Region Groundwater | USGS

Neither is within or under the Mojave Preserve.

I'm curious though. Why the concern about underground water in Mojave NP? Afton Canyon is the closest above ground area; Newberry Springs has a spring (outside the NP), and as I mentioned, scientists are logging evidence of tiny springs within the preserve (very rare, remote, barely usable for humans). The tiny springs seem to support insect and small plant populations and not much else.

Are you thinking Barbara could have wandered 15-20 miles? Or do you think she purposefully strode off on a 15-20 mile hike to a place where she thought she could sustain herself (without food) for a while?

Unless she had a topo map committed to memory, she'd end up having to climb the granite hills - not the sandstone boulders nearer the RV, but the Granite Hills. You can only see the front of them in the picture, but they are about 2000 feet above the desert floor and go on for some miles. Then, unless she knew about and could find the defile that forms a pass toward Afton Canyon, she'd have to climb a couple more sets of granite formations, sharp, hot and tall.

It's really unforgiving terrain and like all theories that posit that Barbara wandered off into deep desert, I think that means she was not in her right mind, either due to heat exhaustion or some other reason. If her heat exhaustion was so severe that she was in fact completely delirious, she didn't stay on her feet much longer than that. It's true that people hide their symptoms of heat exhaustion, but she'd have had to go in the opposite direction from the RV. If you do think she headed up and into the Granite Hills and beyond, I'd say this is an attempt at self-harm (unless she was in fact delirious).

I think it's more likely she got to the RV, couldn't find the key, had to pee, and went down HH Road to find a spot. I am not sure that's even a likely scenario (or why she wouldn't then come back to the RV, because RT should have been there by then).

If there are pictures of her from about 2 pm and she looks smiling and healthy, it's really unlike she was delirious by 2:30 pm (about the time RT says he went back to the RV). It is possible she walked off, angry or irritated, with no clear purpose and got lost. But I don't think she could have gotten completely outside the Mojave NP and anywhere near standing on top of an aquifer (and I don't see how being near an aquifer is relevant to her situation even if she was).

 

[10ofRods]

How much does a missing person's advocate cost? AFAIK, they operate as non-profit agencies and don't charge the family anything for their services... MOO

I don't know, but that would be an excellent idea. I'm sure there could be some crowd funding for it as well.

 

[CSIDreamer]

BBM

Not if every indication leaned to her having succumbed to the elements.
In doing so, I would be putting other lives at risk especially in the heat of the summer.
Canines become overheated as well.

ETA
That unfortunately is the sad reality.
There is one thing I would be looking at.
That is water sources she may have moved towards, as BT would of been in dire straights early.

Honestly, if my spouse were out there, I'd be carrying on for night searches, atvs, anything besides letting my spouse rot in the desert. JMO.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Neither is within or under the Mojave Preserve.

I'm curious though. Why the concern about underground water in Mojave NP? Afton Canyon is the closest above ground area; Newberry Springs has a spring (outside the NP), and as I mentioned, scientists are logging evidence of tiny springs within the preserve (very rare, remote, barely usable for humans). The tiny springs seem to support insect and small plant populations and not much else.

Are you thinking Barbara could have wandered 15-20 miles? Or do you think she purposefully strode off on a 15-20 mile hike to a place where she thought she could sustain herself (without food) for a while?

Unless she had a topo map committed to memory, she'd end up having to climb the granite hills - not the sandstone boulders nearer the RV, but the Granite Hills. You can only see the front of them in the picture, but they are about 2000 feet above the desert floor and go on for some miles. Then, unless she knew about and could find the defile that forms a pass toward Afton Canyon, she'd have to climb a couple more sets of granite formations, sharp, hot and tall.

It's really unforgiving terrain and like all theories that posit that Barbara wandered off into deep desert, I think that means she was not in her right mind, either due to heat exhaustion or some other reason. If her heat exhaustion was so severe that she was in fact completely delirious, she didn't stay on her feet much longer than that. It's true that people hide their symptoms of heat exhaustion, but she'd have had to go in the opposite direction from the RV. If you do think she headed up and into the Granite Hills and beyond, I'd say this is an attempt at self-harm (unless she was in fact delirious).

I think it's more likely she got to the RV, couldn't find the key, had to pee, and went down HH Road to find a spot. I am not sure that's even a likely scenario (or why she wouldn't then come back to the RV, because RT should have been there by then).

If there are pictures of her from about 2 pm and she looks smiling and healthy, it's really unlike she was delirious by 2:30 pm (about the time RT says he went back to the RV). It is possible she walked off, angry or irritated, with no clear purpose and got lost. But I don't think she could have gotten completely outside the Mojave NP and anywhere near standing on top of an aquifer (and I don't see how being near an aquifer is relevant to her situation even if she was).

I don't live in the desert. Do you think it's relatively common for experienced desert hikers to storm off in a huff and not maintain awareness of their surroundings? That seems dangerous.

 

[10ofRods]

I don't live in the desert. Do you think it's relatively common for experienced desert hikers to storm off in a huff and not maintain awareness of their surroundings? That seems dangerous.

I do not think it is common at all. It's tantamount to a person who is engaged in a family quarrel, who then runs into traffic. Less common than some angry person jumping in the car and squealing off (that's fairly common, same impulse?)

But in all those cases, the person is endangering themselves during a quarrel. I think the relationship has to be really rocky for that to happen. No matter how mad at someone I might be (and they can be mad at me too), I would not let someone walk off, angry, into the desert without water. There would be shouting and I would be following them.

If this did happen (Barbara stormed off, which is always a possibility), then RT did not follow her or yell and demand she come back for water (or even walk behind her). He could also have said "I"m leaving your water right HERE!" if he was unable to keep up with her.

If she did storm off, he needed to tell LE so they could organize the SAR differently. But the "Storm Off" theory does answer a few stray questions (such as why he got a lawyer and why he failed the polygraph and why he wants to show the love notes).

If she deliberately headed away from the RV, that's really seriously against her self-interest, she had to want to punish him by basically getting lost in the desert.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

I do not think it is common at all. It's tantamount to a person who is engaged in a family quarrel, who then runs into traffic. Less common than some angry person jumping in the car and squealing off (that's fairly common, same impulse?)

But in all those cases, the person is endangering themselves during a quarrel. I think the relationship has to be really rocky for that to happen. No matter how mad at someone I might be (and they can be mad at me too), I would not let someone walk off, angry, into the desert without water. There would be shouting and I would be following them.

If this did happen (Barbara stormed off, which is always a possibility), then RT did not follow her or yell and demand she come back for water (or even walk behind her). He could also have said "I"m leaving your water right HERE!" if he was unable to keep up with her.

If she did storm off, he needed to tell LE so they could organize the SAR differently. But the "Storm Off" theory does answer a few stray questions (such as why he got a lawyer and why he failed the polygraph and why he wants to show the love notes).

If she deliberately headed away from the RV, that's really seriously against her self-interest, she had to want to punish him by basically getting lost in the desert.

Yes. And if we are truly being victim-friendly, we need to remember that there is no indication that Barbara Thomas is a drama queen who would endanger herself over a marital spat. She is by all accounts a competent desert hiker. This and the bikini + beer = sexual predator lure notion is just more victim blaming.

 

[ZsaZsa]

True.
He might have money we don't know about.

I wonder what happens to your SS income if you are missing? Presumably it still gets paid .

 

[LietKynes]

Yes. And if we are truly being victim-friendly, we need to remember that there is no indication that Barbara Thomas is a drama queen who would endanger herself over a marital spat. She is by all accounts a competent desert hiker. This and the bikini + beer = sexual predator lure notion is just more victim blaming.

Emph. mine
Ita.

That's what caught my attention from the beginning when we were told this.
Seemed unnecessary.

 

[10ofRods]

Yes. And if we are truly being victim-friendly, we need to remember that there is no indication that Barbara Thomas is a drama queen who would endanger herself over a marital spat. She is by all accounts a competent desert hiker. This and the bikini + beer = sexual predator lure notion is just more victim blaming.

I agree. Absolutely no evidence that she's a self-endangering drama queen.

One victim-friendly hypothesis, though, is that something upset or scared her.

I don't consider mentioning that she was wearing a bikini to be victim blaming. It's the people who say "WHY would anyone do that??" who are getting close to or over the line for me.

And while I've had some dramatic fights in my marital life, neither of us has vanished or endangered ourselves in any significant manner. Marital fights can be dramatic, certainly. But again, for someone to storm/run/trot off in the desert (not toward the RV but away from it) they would have to be in a particular mental state. If Barbara was already suffering from heat exhaustion, I don't think it's victim blaming to mention that she might not have been thinking straight. I wish we knew how long they'd been out there. 2 miles plus climbing to the top of some rocks? 2 hours? If they left at noon, it would have gone from 100F to 104F in that time. I wish we knew whether he stopped and took off his pack and got out the water for both of them to drink (or did he have a hydration pack they were sharing?)

If they were both already compromised by heat (and dehydration as well), that is in fact a huge risk factor for unusual behavior. Including irritability.