CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #9

[CSIDreamer]

I'm off to look for something. While I'm looking, anyone recall what time the search ended the first night?

Looked at nixle. Nothing yet.

 

[Kapua]

In a word: Yes.

I want to see an MSM link or an LE statement that they have a photo of BT that was taken at 2 pm that day.

Barring that, I don't accept a 2 pm photo as an established fact in this case.

JMO.

Yeah, me neither.

I accept the possibility that there may be pictures of Barbara taken on July 12 at that location. But I prefer to work with corroborated evidence such as the neighbor's video camera, the convenience store/gas station camera, and the 911 call log. I have in the past made the mistake of accepting one person's word as fact.

As I mentioned upthread, it's about a 1 hr, 45 minute drive from Bullhead City, AZ to Kelbaker Rd. (See Google map attached). If they left between 8:15 and 8:30, as established by the kennel/neighbor, and drove there directly, they would have arrived before 10:30. The 911 call was logged at 3:36.

There are greater than 5 hours worth of time to be accounted for between verifiable events. IMHO.

 

[LAhiker]

Yeah, me neither.

I accept the possibility that there may be pictures of Barbara taken on July 12 at that location. But I prefer to work with corroborated evidence such as the neighbor's video camera, the convenience store/gas station camera, and the 911 call log. I have in the past made the mistake of accepting one person's word as fact.

As I mentioned upthread, it's about a 1 hr, 45 minute drive from Bullhead City, AZ to Kelbaker Rd. (See Google map attached). If they left between 8:15 and 8:30, as established by the kennel/neighbor, and drove there directly, they would have arrived before 10:30. The 911 call was logged at 3:36.

There are greater than 5 hours worth of time to be accounted for between verifiable events. IMHO.

Thanks for doing the numbers. You may have already allowed for this, but because they were towing the fifth wheel, they wouldn't have been able to drive as fast as a car or truck with no trailer. This site recommends estimating 45 mph; it's possible they went a little faster.
How Fast Can You Safely Drive When Towing an RV? - Vehicle HQ

Google maps says it's 93.6 miles from their house to Kelbaker/Hidden Hill. Because they stopped at the Circle K for ice, let's round up the distance a little to 95 miles. Dividing that by 45mph, we come up with 2.1 hours which is around 2 hours 6 minutes. Let's add 15 minutes for the purchase of ice. That brings the trip up to 2 hours 21 minutes. So assuming they left the house at the later time of 8:30am and went to Kelbaker/Hidden Hill (stopping only to get ice), they would've gotten to Kelbaker/Hidden Hill at 10:51pm. Due to the uncertainty about the exact time that they left the house (an earlier time of 8:15am has also been mentioned), they might've gotten there sooner, for instance at 10:40am. That would still leave over 4 1/2 hours unaccounted for (about 4 hrs 35 mins -- 4 hrs 45 mins).
JMO

 

[LietKynes]

The picture that Barbara took that showed the parking lot was reportedly taken in the morning.

We don't know what time any other pictures may have been taken, but the VI said that LE informed him there were pictures of Barbara.

The other picture that was thought to be taken around 2:00 was a different picture, I think. But as a poster just pointed out, that information is considered rumor because it was not from a reliable source.
So we really dont know the time that any pictures were taken! Imo

BBM

Marking my spot and thanks for clarifying this, @MsBetsy !
There is so little information that can be verified.

As another poster stated, I've also taken someone at their word before and regretted it later. This does not include the VI who was told that there are indeed photos of Barbara taken that day.

I believe that the VI is hanging onto hope ; which we all should be doing.
And I believe he truly wants Barbara to be found safe and sound.

The facts are that she was seen on neighbor's surveillance cams and also at the dog kennel ?
The kennel in our city has cams inside and out.

So it would be helpful if LE would release stills from the two places if they're clear enough to see Barbara.

My guess is the clearest photos would be from the kennels, while she was indoors.
We know that the kennel staff spoke to her or had some interaction with her.
That is possibly the last verified sighting and communication with Barbara.

I don't think it's of no use to discuss whether or not they stopped and had lunch in a diner or inside the fifth wheel ; b/c it made me think about the fact that some people are neat freaks about their new cars/trucks/campers and will stop where there's a convenience store or gas station to throw out trash.
I can think of some people who would fit this mold.

Did they leave the used napkins or paper plates in the fifth wheel or dispose of whatever , by stopping when it was convenient ?
Because then maybe both of them were seen on surveillance cams.

Why wouldn't RT tell LE every place they'd stopped at that day ?
Maybe he has, and we've not been told this for whatever reason ?

So it helps that people are still discussing the minutiae as maybe someone will think of something that hasn't yet been brought up ?

Anything that will help find Barbara or discover what has happened to her.

 

[Kapua]

Thanks for doing the numbers. You may have already allowed for this, but because they were towing the fifth wheel, they wouldn't have been able to drive as fast as a car or truck with no trailer. This site recommends estimating 45 mph; it's possible they went a little faster.
How Fast Can You Safely Drive When Towing an RV? - Vehicle HQ

Google maps says it's 93.6 miles from their house to Kelbaker/Hidden Hill. Because they stopped at the Circle K for ice, let's round up the distance a little to 95 miles. Dividing that by 45mph, we come up with 2.1 hours which is around 2 hours 6 minutes. Let's add 15 minutes for the purchase of ice. That brings the trip up to 2 hours 21 minutes. So assuming they left the house at the later time of 8:30am and went to Kelbaker/Hidden Hill (stopping only to get ice), they would've gotten to Kelbaker/Hidden Hill at 10:51pm. Due to the uncertainty about the exact time that they left the house (an earlier time of 8:15am has also been mentioned), they might've gotten there sooner, for instance at 10:40am. That would still leave over 4 1/2 hours unaccounted for (about 4 hrs 35 mins -- 4 hrs 45 mins).
JMO

Thanks for calculating more precisely and using the T's address as the starting point.

I did not take into consideration that they might have been driving appreciably slower due to having the fifth wheel attached. (Slightly OT: a friend of mine just returned from a camping trip - she has a much humbler trailer. She reported that in Oregon, there were places where she could drive upward of 70 MPH legally).

So let's agree upon 4 1/2 to 5 1/4 hours of time in the CA desert between arrival and 911 call.

There was also a stretch of time before LE arrived; not sure we know their exact arrival time.

 

[Sillybilly]

Reminder folks ... if you have sent in a tip, please do not post about it on the thread.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The speed limit in California when towing a trailer is 55 mph.

Unless otherwise posted, the maximum speed limit is 55 mph on a two-lane undivided highway and for vehicles towing trailers.

California Driver Handbook - Laws/Rules of the Road

 

[al66pine]

Was RT in Squad Vehicle for 5 Hours, w A/C Running?

I have always been a little hung up on the idea of someone being held in a car in the desert for 5 hours. I guess that would have taken RT into the evening but all I can think of is what a sweat box that would be. You surely wouldn’t run the AC for 5 hours so I hope the outside temp dropped as the time went on. It just seems weird.

Thanks for your post. bbm
Agreed, five hours seems like a long time to run a/c; IDK if a/c in one car ran that long without some breaks. But then again, LE agencies working in SoCal desert have to buy squad vehicles that can withstand some practices/abuse that might seem very unlikely/unusual, in other parts of US, e.g., PacNW.

Not sure if RT's stmt - 5 hrs. in back of a cop car - is to be taken literally. A couple other possibilities:
--- Likely, imo, a couple other LE cars were there, so maybe RT was moved from one car to another, allowing one car's systems to cool off?
--- After initial discussion/interview w RT, did LEO quickly determine this situation required using LE's RV Command Post, and it was promptly deployed to the scene? If so, RT may have been inside it for a while. An RV equipped for that purpose would have generator capable of operating a/c for hours or days on end - w fuel top-offs.
Just some thoughts about possibilities. Or maybe RT was in back of one car the whole time.

 

[Kapua]

The speed limit in California when towing a trailer is 55 mph.


California Driver Handbook - Laws/Rules of the Road

Yes, I know. I live in CA.

However, I have observed that some people do drive faster than the legal speed limit.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Yes, I know. I live in CA.

However, I have observed that some people do drive faster that the legal speed limit.

I also live in California.

I have seen people pulling large trailers going well below the speed limit.

We have absolutely no idea how fast they were going in their travel.

 

[Kapua]

I also live in California.

I have seen people pulling large trailers going well below the speed limit.

We have absolutely no idea how fast they were going in their travel.

Exactly. We can add that to the long list of things we don't know. We can also add that we don't know how long the ice stop lasted, nor if they stopped anywhere else before they arrived at Kelbaker/Hidden Hills.

However, at a rate of speed of the legal 55 mph you mention, and a distance of 93.6 miles, according to @LAhiker's calculation, they would have made it to their destination in 1.7 hours. Add however much time you like for the convenience store stop. They should easily have arrived by 11. IMHO.

 

[LAhiker]

I also live in California.

I have seen people pulling large trailers going well below the speed limit.

We have absolutely no idea how fast they were going in their travel.

True. However, my calculations above were very conservative in that they assumed RT & BT were driving at only 45 mph.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

True. However, my calculations above were very conservative in that they assumed RT & BT were driving at only 45 mph.

Thank you for that.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Exactly. We can add that to the long list of things we don't know. We can also add that we don't know how long the ice stop lasted, nor if they stopped anywhere else before they arrived at Kelbaker/Hidden Hills.

However, at a rate of speed of the legal 55 mph you mention, and a distance of 93.6 miles, according to @LAhiker's calculation, they would have made it to their destination in 1.7 hours. Add however much time you like for the convenience store stop. They should easily have arrived by 11. IMHO.

I agree. Thank you.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

No idea. She could have been wearing the exact clothing in that photo, but we don’t know for sure the photo that was released was taken that particular day.

I don’t think she was there in the first place, so the clothing is a moot point as far as I’m concerned.

I agree with you (on this one and in general, from your posts ).

The only reason I think it will be true is because if when Barb is found she is wearing something completely different, it wouldn't tally with RT's account. He couldn't take that chance.

Saying which, still moot, because nor will the location IMO!

 

[darring21]

Yeah, me neither.

I accept the possibility that there may be pictures of Barbara taken on July 12 at that location. But I prefer to work with corroborated evidence such as the neighbor's video camera, the convenience store/gas station camera, and the 911 call log. I have in the past made the mistake of accepting one person's word as fact.

As I mentioned upthread, it's about a 1 hr, 45 minute drive from Bullhead City, AZ to Kelbaker Rd. (See Google map attached). If they left between 8:15 and 8:30, as established by the kennel/neighbor, and drove there directly, they would have arrived before 10:30. The 911 call was logged at 3:36.

There are greater than 5 hours worth of time to be accounted for between verifiable events. IMHO.

How is the neighbor's video camera corroborated? What about the convenience store? I thought they were both corroborated by the VI. That is the same way the pictures on the camera are corroborated.

 

[PommyMommy]

Does anyone remember if he contacted the family before or after the televised interviews? Thanks!

The first interview with RT was posted on July 15 at 6:32 p.m.
Man says police think he is a suspect in wife's disappearance

dbdb11 said RT called Barbara's family in Hong Kong on July 16.

My family was informed of her disappearance on July 16th. In informing my family Rob mentioned he had cancelled the flights. His family members later repeated that her flights had been cancelled when I tried to reach Robbie by phone.

In the first conversation he had with my family Robbie also said they should cancel the hotel reservations because "she's not gonna make it." endquote.

The source for last sighting is a neighbour's surveillance cam. I'm still waiting to see this footage, but I am trusting the source.

 

[PommyMommy]

THANK you so much (although it is now just making me even more confused). This text was sent after RT informs the family that Barb is missing, obviously (which is...when? Isn't it something like 4 days after she disappeared?)

Now that I think about it, didn't Dbdb say his sister took notes from the call?

So the person who says she has a poor memory is the sister. Gotcha. Still goes to the point that this narrative is imperfect but sort of consistent with what we know.

On the first day of the search, I have seen no LE mention of horses or dogs. I think they do mention helicopter. According to this narrative, police arrive around 2 pm, which we know to be untrue. However, it does sound like RT has the entire set of events happening earlier if he says "throughout the day" LE did X or Y. Because LE didn't even arrive until 5:30 and had to set up operations.

Nixle doesn't mention K-9s or aviation until the 3rd day's update, but the first day's announcement has been deleted, so no way to know. There was no search "throughout the day" that day, as the search didn't get underway until about 6 pm. The tweets from that night are now deleted from SBCSO tweet feed, but I do think that there was reason to believe they searched well into the night (but not "throughout the day"). Remember, too, that RT later tells family that he was held inside a cop car for 5 hours. Was it that day?

Again, vague. But I believe RT is exaggerating in this narrative if the narrative is even vaguely accurate.

SAR tweets said there were 20 people there on day 3 (and it usually takes time to roust volunteers - they all have regular jobs). There were not "hundreds" of people there that first evening, IMO, but it may have seemed that way to RT? Or is it trying to make it look like everything possible had been done to save Barb? That would surely make her family feel better, but is it accurate? I don't think it is. Or, as sister says, her memory is faulty (perhaps she imagined 100's of searchers that day?) Could she be that far off?

I do believe they searched way into the night and I'm not surprised if RT was in a car for 5 hours (but it would be quite odd if they didn't at least first have him show them where to search?) He tells his family the same thing he tells the world: that he is the "first suspect."

SAR posts the dog search video (with the head K-9 handler, who is dual trained in K-9 and regular SAR search) on July 17. They say in the caption "The search is continuing" which strongly implies it's that day. A helicopter is also shown in that video.

At any rate, the times that RT appears to have given family (we may never know for sure) are at variance with the LE and SAR details. Plainly.

It's possible that since RT didn't call family right away, he sort of collapsed all the many events of the first few days when he told the story. It's interesting that the fact that the search was still ongoing was not mentioned or at least not texted to Dbdb.

I wonder if there's any neighbor video of RT leaving each night to go out and search when he's been asked not to be there.

FWIW

:51 "They had the, the, uh fire trucks out there, the ambulance, paramedics; they had the, the, they actually brought a dog team out later, they had the helicopter that was comin' in."

 

[MsBetsy]

How is the neighbor's video camera corroborated? What about the convenience store? I thought they were both corroborated by the VI. That is the same way the pictures on the camera are corroborated.

Yes, all of those things as well as the kennel drop off time and the statements by the kennel staff were stated by the VI.
I'm not sure if he said LE ever interviewed the kennel staff. I think it was only he who actually spoke to them. I'm not sure if they questioned the neighbors either.
So I guess all of this is considered an opinion, as it has not been verified by LE or in MSM.
LE has not given us any new information other than what they said right after the search, or at least on July 22nd. Imo

 

[firstsleuth]

IIRC; the question of whether RT called Barbara’s brother before or after his television interviews has been asked several times. PommyMommy has given us time details quoted below, and we have dbdb11’s sister’s text stating “... robbie’s done some interviews..” interviews, plural...so for those wondering if he did the 2 interviews the same day...perhaps? Idk...but I think we can safely assume he did at least one interview before calling his brother in law and probably both unless “interviews” plural s was a typo

In dbdb11’s sister’s text re-posted above, she reported: BBM:
“...robbie’s done some interviews as he wants to get the word out. but he hasn’t seen or read any of the released news and comments. it’s too much...”

So...I can’t begin to imagine how angry I would feel if I got a call like this from my brother in law...4 days after my sister went missing

IMO

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, Bullhead City, hiking wearing bikini in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019

Does anyone remember if he contacted the family before or after the televised interviews? Thanks!

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, Bullhead City, hiking wearing bikini in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019[/QUOTE]

The first interview with RT was posted on July 15 at 6:32 p.m.
Man says police think he is a suspect in wife's disappearance

dbdb11 said RT called Barbara's family in Hong Kong on July 16.

ETA: above “So...I can’t begin to imagine how angry I would feel if I got a call like this from my brother in law...4 days after my sister went missing ”

ETA: MOO my own very strong feeling/opinion: And, he (rt) was so very very SMOOTH in his delivery there is not one hint of suspicion in dbdb11’s sister’s text message IMO