CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #9

[MsBetsy]

Which is also from another platform than MSM or LE.

There’s a quite a bit of stuff in the non-MSM/non-LE bucket. I don’t think we’re supposed to discuss it here, though. It’s very hard to keep it all straight.

There are several pages of discussion about the casino here. As long as the VI posts about it I think we can discuss it.

We speculated as to what he was doing there and why, whether or not he was gambling or just hanging out, (since he wasn't generally much of a gambler,) who he was talking to, and what there is to do there. It turns out there is a lot. They even have laser tag. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

BBM Well he's had plenty of time to recover from that!

Well, some people take years to get over losing their spouse. Some people say they never get over it.

I think two months is a pretty short time, considering they shared 15 happy years together. At least according to the VI they seemed very much in love.

I'm sure the rest of her family is not yet recovered either, although it's probably getting easier. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

BBM:

We don't know that to be the case, though.

I'm not going to assume that RT took that step.

Assumptions are not facts.

What we do know is that RT didn't notify BT's son himself that his mom vanished in the middle of the desert.

JMO.

Didn't the VI say something about LE having his phone? That the number RT first gave him was incorrect and they ultimately found her son's number on his phone?

At least I'm pretty sure he gave them the wrong number at first. The rest I'm not too sure if I'm remembering correctly.

 

[Tillicum]

Well, some people take years to get over losing their spouse. Some people say they never get over it.

I think two months is a pretty short time, considering they shared 15 happy years together. At least according to the VI they seemed very much in love.

I'm sure the rest of her family is not yet recovered either, although it's probably getting easier. Imo

I was really referring to the fact that it's only been in the news once in quite awhile. I didn't word it very well. I doubt that any of them have gotten over her disappearance so soon. Especially since she hasn't been found and at least some of them don't know what happened to her.

 

[MsBetsy]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

My dad was dating within three months after my mom died which I thought was a little too early.
But he's married to her now and I can't imagine him ever getting over losing my mom if he was alone.
Then there are people who never again have another relationship after losing someone.
But we don't know what he's thinking now. He may be holding out hope that she is alive.
Wouldn't it be amazing if she was? That would be the best ending ever.

 

[MsBetsy]

I was really referring to the fact that it's only been in the news once in quite awhile. I didn't word it very well. I doubt that any of them have gotten over her disappearance so soon. Especially since she hasn't been found and at least some of them don't know what happened to her.

Oh, yes, hopefully he had at least recovered enough to read about it.
Except I'm afraid the next time it will be in the news it will be when they find a body and that can't be easy to deal with either.
I wonder if he still believes she is alive.

 

[LietKynes]

<modsnip>
My dad was dating within three months after my mom died which I thought was a little too early.
But he's married to her now and I can't imagine him ever getting over losing my mom if he was alone.
Then there are people who never again have another relationship after losing someone.
But we don't know what he's thinking now. He may be holding out hope that she is alive.
Wouldn't it be amazing if she was? That would be the best ending ever.

BBM

^^^ Aww... that last bit made me tear up.

I fear she is gone from us and if I'm wrong I will gladly eat crow.
Barbara struck me as the type who loves life and eats it up !
Someone who would be fun to hang out with.

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

<modsnip: removed duplicate quote>

No, you can trace the talk about lunch back to someone who was trying to work out a possible timeline—and people took it and ran with it.

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #9
“apologies for the confusion, I was trying to explain what I thought a previous poster meant. Lunch, is purely speculation.”

 

[MsBetsy]

If what I recall is accurate, 6 days later, LE was the one to notify her son. Who in the family circle knew but the son still didn’t? Was there a collective decision that said it’s a good idea for LE to tell him vs. family? I don’t know...

Or maybe they assumed LE already called. Or maybe RT didn't know he had given them the wrong number until notified they notified him?
It can be pretty hectic the first week or so when a tragedy occurs.
Did any of his relatives call? They probably did not know the number either.
Which two of his relatives were said to be Barbara's best friends? His neice and his sister?
Was it his niece who posted her for awhile? It would be nice to hear from her too.

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

I have always been a little hung up on the idea of someone being held in a car in the desert for 5 hours. I guess that would have taken RT into the evening but all I can think of is what a sweat box that would be. You surely wouldn’t run the AC for 5 hours so I hope the outside temp dropped as the time went on. It just seems weird.

At RT’s age being questioned for 5 hours in a car along with the stress of BT missing would be a bit overwhelming and also might explain why he didn’t contact BT’s family for a few days.

 

[Cherwell]

Not really. If you were to put 10 people in this situation, I believe that statistically, most of them would contact the family.
That was my point; not what we would do, but what they would do.
I think the overwhelming majority of people make that call.

I'm not so sure. It's easy to say with hindsight, but in a situation where she might have been found safe by searchers at any moment - a possibility in the early days of the search - I think a lot of people would hold off from making the call while there was still hope of success. It's considerate in another way. To avoid alarming and upsetting people who are thousands of miles away and can do nothing immediate to help, and where there is also someone who is very ill.

 

[Jo in Calif]

Didn't the VI say something about LE having his phone? That the number RT first gave him was incorrect and they ultimately found her son's number on his phone?

At least I'm pretty sure he gave them the wrong number at first. The rest I'm not too sure if I'm remembering correctly.

I don’t think this came from the VI, I think it came from a different platform.

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

Our behaviors as individuals are viewed through the lens of societal norms.
There IS such a thing as "normative behavior."
Not notifying her immediate family members of BT's disappearance under extremely dire circumstances is definitely not normative behavior.

The way we can tell it's not normative behavior, is by most of this group's reaction to it.

I haven't heard a single person here say, "No notification? No problem!" with respect to RT's failure to inform BT's son that his mom vanished in the middle of the desert, in the middle of the day, in the middle of summer.

He didn't tell BT's son the day she went missing.
He didn't tell her son the following day that she went missing.
He didn't tell her son the day after that.
Or the next day.
Or the next day.
Or the next day.
Or the next day.

Basically and bluntly stated, RT didn't bother to inform her son that his mom was most likely dead.

That's not normative behavior.
It's atypical behavior.
It's abnormal behavior.

Abnormal behavior stands out.
It gets noticed.
As evidenced by the fact that it jumped out at so many people here on this forum.

JMO.

I think RT not personally contacting BT’s son would be very normal (considering that BT and her sons contact was through email on the computer, I’m assuming BT’s Son didn’t approve of RT for some reason) so why would RT put himself in a position to possibly have to defend himself when talking to BT’s son when LE could call and inform him.

 

[MassGuy]

I think RT not personally contacting BT’s son would be very normal (considering that BT and her sons contact was through email on the computer, I’m assuming BT’s Son didn’t approve of RT for some reason) so why would RT put himself in a position to possibly have to defend himself when talking to BT’s son when LE could call and inform him.

Why is that law enforcement’s job? That sounds like “passing the buck” to me.

This wasn’t a murder investigation, or a situation where law enforcement notifies the immediate family of a death.

Rob was her family, and that duty was his.

I don’t think this is normal behavior, nor do I believe that’s how people should act.

That seems totally wrong.

 

[MassGuy]

I'm not so sure. It's easy to say with hindsight, but in a situation where she might have been found safe by searchers at any moment - a possibility in the early days of the search - I think a lot of people would hold off from making the call while there was still hope of success. It's considerate in another way. To avoid alarming and upsetting people who are thousands of miles away and can do nothing immediate to help, and where there is also someone who is very ill.

We’re talking about her son, and he had to wait days.

I’d want to know immediately, and I don’t think I know of a single person who would feel different.

A life is on the line. Who cares about “alarm?”

Also, he believed Barb was “kidnapped.” If someone is kidnapped, one does not sit around and wait to see how things turn out.

 

[NervousNellie]

Our behaviors as individuals are viewed through the lens of societal norms.
There IS such a thing as "normative behavior."
Not notifying her immediate family members of BT's disappearance under extremely dire circumstances is definitely not normative behavior.

The way we can tell it's not normative behavior, is by most of this group's reaction to it.

I haven't heard a single person here say, "No notification? No problem!" with respect to RT's failure to inform BT's son that his mom vanished in the middle of the desert, in the middle of the day, in the middle of summer.

He didn't tell BT's son the day she went missing.
He didn't tell her son the following day that she went missing.
He didn't tell her son the day after that.
Or the next day.
Or the next day.
Or the next day.
Or the next day.

Basically and bluntly stated, RT didn't bother to inform her son that his mom was most likely dead.

That's not normative behavior.
It's atypical behavior.
It's abnormal behavior.

Abnormal behavior stands out.
It gets noticed.
As evidenced by the fact that it jumped out at so many people here on this forum.

JMO.

Respectfully (genuinely!!), his behavior could merely be dysfunctional, rather than “not normative,” “atypical,” or “abnormal.” Some families are just plain dysfunctional. Our VI has said Barbara’s son gave her a lot of trouble, or problems, or something (don’t remember the exact wording). The fact is, Barbara may have forgiven her son for his past transgressions (whatever they were), but Robert might not have. Robert might not have felt MS deserved to hear from him.

If Robert didn’t have a relationship with Barbara’s son (or had an estranged relationship with him - Michael has made it clear he doesn’t like or approve of Robert), Robert genuinely may not have cared one iota if MS ever found out. There are a lot of f’d up families and extended families out there. Heck, even Barbara’s brothers are estranged from one another. Has her missing status resolved that estrangement? Why should we expect it to resolve this other estrangement between Robert and Michael - that admittedly is assumed on my part..

I have a sister that only speaks to our 85 y/o father; none of my siblings has her phone number or has spoken to her in more than ten years (the rest of us communicate regularly). When the time comes, I know I will not be the one to try to find her to let her know when our dad passes. Harsh? Atypical? Not normative? Or just plain dysfunctional? Maybe if you haven’t lived it, you can’t understand it. I say my husband’s family is so normal they are abnormal, but that is based on my familial experiences. I know we are not supposed to share much personal information but this seems relevant experience so I hope it is not outside TOS.

 

[PommyMommy]

I think RT not personally contacting BT’s son would be very normal (considering that BT and her sons contact was through email on the computer, I’m assuming BT’s Son didn’t approve of RT for some reason) so why would RT put himself in a position to possibly have to defend himself when talking to BT’s son when LE could call and inform him.

Family suspects foul play in disappearance of Bullhead City woman
"My mother and I were close. ... (We) spoke on the phone often (and) she loved my children, [NAME REDACTED],13, and [NAME REDACTED], 11.

 

[PommyMommy]

Why is that law enforcement’s job? That sounds like “passing the buck” to me.

This wasn’t a murder investigation, or a situation where law enforcement notifies the immediate family of a death.

Rob was her family, and that duty was his.

I don’t think this is normal behavior, nor do I believe that’s how people should act.

That seems totally wrong.

He didn't seem to have any trouble getting her flights canceled. MOO

 

[GordianKnot]

Respectfully (genuinely!!), his behavior could merely be dysfunctional, rather than “not normative,” “atypical,” or “abnormal.” Some families are just plain dysfunctional. Our VI has said Barbara’s son gave her a lot of trouble, or problems, or something (don’t remember the exact wording). The fact is, Barbara may have forgiven her son for his past transgressions (whatever they were), but Robert might not have. Robert might not have felt MS deserved to hear from him.

If Robert didn’t have a relationship with Barbara’s son (or had an estranged relationship with him - Michael has made it clear he doesn’t like or approve of Robert), Robert genuinely may not have cared one iota if MS ever found out. There are a lot of f’d up families and extended families out there. Heck, even Barbara’s brothers are estranged from one another. Has her missing status resolved that estrangement? Why should we expect it to resolve this other estrangement between Robert and Michael - that admittedly is assumed on my part..

I have a sister that only speaks to our 85 y/o father; none of my siblings has her phone number or has spoken to her in more than ten years (the rest of us communicate regularly). When the time comes, I know I will not be the one to try to find her to let her know when our dad passes. Harsh? Atypical? Not normative? Or just plain dysfunctional? Maybe if you haven’t lived it, you can’t understand it. I say my husband’s family is so normal they are abnormal, but that is based on my familial experiences. I know we are not supposed to share much personal information but this seems relevant experience so I hope it is not outside TOS.

I understand what you're saying about messed up family systems.

I think it's a distinction without a difference, though.

Dictionary definitions of dysfunctional include: "behaving or acting outside social norms" and
"not behaving or acting normally," i.e., dysfunctional is synonymous with abnormal.

Dysfunctional behavior is abnormal behavior.

That's what puts the "dys" in "dysfunction.

JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

He didn't seem to have any trouble getting her flights canceled. MOO

Ha! So I think we can reasonably conclude that he does in fact know how to operate a phone.