CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #11

[believe09]

I am going to channel my own Carnac the Magnificent here and make a prediction-I predict that it will be a while before an unsealed copy of the super secret agreement is available in the court record.

I hope I am wrong-I look forward to anything gitana1 can share about this.

Wasnt it weeks ago that they lost their bid to keep it sealed? Par for the course. I suppose the lack of transparency has gotten them this far. Why not push the envelope a little further.

 

[believe09]

'However, a finding of guilt as to any crime may not be based on circumstantial evidence unless the proved circumstances are not only (1) consistent with the theory that the defendant is guilty of the crime, but (2) cannot be reconciled with any other rational conclusion.'

It depends on whether you think 1 and 2 fit this crime.

 

[zwiebel]

Just trying to come to a rational conclusion about that fluid timeline......

 

[zwiebel]

zwiebel, that's usually the way the missing dead are found, is a hiker will traverse the area and accidently discover remains. Or kids exploring will come across them. In the local mountains (San Bernadino), there is a highway that many a body has been dumped. It's called Angeles Crest Highway.

In the desert, usually dead bodies are found by ATV enthusiasts. Or the buzzards will start circling and tip off LE that something is out there that should be checked.

Seajay, I found this link about the highway and it mentions it is re- opening on November 30th 2009. There was a big fire in that year? Is it possible it was closed when Bob disappeared?

http://marks-talesfromthetrails.blogspot.de/2009/11/angeles-crest-highway.html

 

[Seajay]

Seajay, I found this link about the highway and it mentions it is re- opening on November 30th 2009. There was a big fire in that year? Is it possible it was closed when Bob disappeared?

http://marks-talesfromthetrails.blogspot.de/2009/11/angeles-crest-highway.html

Our fire season usually starts in late October, early November. We are in it right now. We have red flag warnings going on because of the strong Santa Ana winds that come through the passes and with summer just ending, everything is dry and "kindling."

I don't think it would have been closed when Bob disappeared, however it would be possible that he could have been dumped there in July and then the fire came through in November and destroyed evidence.

 

[noZme]

Sorry for creating confusion.... The housekeeper thought it was significant that the bed was unmade, because that was the only time it was not done before she arrived. Of course, he may have kept his slippers beside the bed & glasses on the kitchen table, but it was my understanding he always made the bed immediately upon arising.

I meant to illustrate he may have been startled awake & hurried out of the house,
but had forgotten he was home to get a mid-morning phonecall.

I still think Mr Bob may have been tricked to leave with a relative, walked out of his house, hijacked, taken to a remote location where he met with violence & was left.

Within a reasonable radius, how many miles are there of desolate roadside where a body could be shoved just off the road & maybe never found? And back at the house, there is no forensics to prove a darn thing. Perpetrator(s) may be feeling mighty cocky about that.... which makes me ill!

I know it's a long shot, but I am hopeful about the remains discovered last week near Barstow. LE needs to recover the body & I hope Mr Bob can be laid to rest with dignity. He deserves it & Fontelle should have it. Damnit! We all know he was killed for his money & someone is getting away with cold-blooded murder.

 

[OneLove]

Sorry for creating confusion.... The housekeeper thought it was significant that the bed was unmade, because that was the only time it was not done before she arrived. Of course, he may have kept his slippers beside the bed & glasses on the kitchen table, but it was my understanding he always made the bed immediately upon arising.

I meant to illustrate he may have been startled awake & hurried out of the house,
but had forgotten he was home to get a mid-morning phonecall.

I still think Mr Bob may have been tricked to leave with a relative, walked out of his house, hijacked, taken to a remote location where he met with violence & was left.

Within a reasonable radius, how many miles are there of desolate roadside where a body could be shoved just off the road & maybe never found? And back at the house, there is no forensics to prove a darn thing. Perpetrator(s) may be feeling mighty cocky about that.... which makes me ill!

I know it's a long shot, but I am hopeful about the remains discovered last week near Barstow. LE needs to recover the body & I hope Mr Bob can be laid to rest with dignity. He deserves it & Fontelle should have it. Damnit! We all know he was killed for his money & someone is getting away with cold-blooded murder.

Maybe tricked to leave with someone, but it could also be that he was surprised still in his sleep by someone who strangled him or knocked him out and then carried him to a vehicle. No shoes, slippers, street clothes, or glasses would be needed in this scenario. The sheets could have been sanitized quickly to be sure no perp DNA was found on them, especially if there was a struggle that ensued. Even if the attack was bloodless, there would have been some transfer of DNA onto the sheets.

What puzzles me is the 10:00am phone call. Did Bob "normally" dress and make his bed before this time of the morning? I know many people who were lifetime early risers that began to sleep in until mid morning in later years. But if he had taken a phone call already, how likely would he be to have NOT put on his slippers, or NOT made his bed already?

Can anyone recap the details here of this phone call? Is there ANY possibility that the person thought to be Bob on the phone was actually someone else posing as Bob?

 

[GrainneDhu]

I always thought it was 7 years. I figured the family had to be patient and sit back for 7 years before they could collect their blood money.

It is 7 years in most of the US but each state sets its own standards.

Even 5 years shows a willingness to wait that I find really chilling.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Yes, I should take a more positive attitude. I come from a small country where bodies are usually discovered quickly, and often by LE searches. I have to bear in mind it's different over there - here? -!

And yet... Among others, Keith Bennett's body has never been found. Following the Keith Bennett forum has given me lots of information about modern search methods, even though they haven't worked for Keith.

 

[zwiebel]

BBM

Maybe tricked to leave with someone, but it could also be that he was surprised still in his sleep by someone who strangled him or knocked him out and then carried him to a vehicle. No shoes, slippers, street clothes, or glasses would be needed in this scenario. The sheets could have been sanitized quickly to be sure no perp DNA was found on them, especially if there was a struggle that ensued. Even if the attack was bloodless, there would have been some transfer of DNA onto the sheets.

What puzzles me is the 10:00am phone call. Did Bob "normally" dress and make his bed before this time of the morning? I know many people who were lifetime early risers that began to sleep in until mid morning in later years. But if he had taken a phone call already, how likely would he be to have NOT put on his slippers, or NOT made his bed already?

Can anyone recap the details here of this phone call? Is there ANY possibility that the person thought to be Bob on the phone was actually someone else posing as Bob?

It seems to be established that call was the cleaning lady. Going by the Disappeared clip, she just seems to be too perceptive to have let that one past her......

 

[cloudajo]

In CA, a missing person is presumed dead after 5 years, and the person’s death presumed to have occurred at the end of the 5 years. That would be July 27, 2014 for Bob. I assume a petition will be filed in the OC court by the co-conservators on or about July 28, 2014.


All of the requirements of a “diligent search or inquiry” were satisfied:

1. Inserting in one or more suitable newspapers or other periodicals a notice requesting information from any person having knowledge of the whereabouts of the missing person.
2. Notifying law enforcement officials and public welfare agencies in appropriate locations of the disappearance of the missing person.
3. Engaging the services of an investigator.

----------------------
2009 California Probate Code - Section 12400-12408 :: Part 12. Administration Of Estates Of Missing Persons Presumed Dead

12401. In proceedings under this part, a person who has not been
seen or heard from for a continuous period of five years by those who
are likely to have seen or heard from that person, and whose absence
is not satisfactorily explained after diligent search or inquiry, is
presumed to be dead. The person's death is presumed to have occurred
at the end of the period unless there is sufficient evidence to
establish that death occurred earlier.

12402. Subject to the provisions of this part, the estate of a
missing person may be administered in the manner provided generally
for the administration of estates of deceased persons.


http://law.justia.com/codes/california/2009/prob/12400-12408.html

 

[cloudajo]

Private Investigator and General Milestones

Daughter RB posted that their PI was retained to respectfully conduct a thorough investigation in total cooperation with the police with only general milestones being reported back to them.

Would you hire a PI, pay them for services, and be satisfied with only “general milestones” being reported back to you if you hired them to find your missing father? Also, it’s interesting that the company they hired has on their website that they provide things like recorded and written statements, a detailed report, etc.


Our experienced investigators are available to conduct thorough investigations and obtain photographic & video evidence, recorded & written statements, accompanied with a thorough detailed report & supporting documentation.

http://www.archangelpi.com/investigations.htm

 

[cloudajo]

Maybe tricked to leave with someone, but it could also be that he was surprised still in his sleep by someone who strangled him or knocked him out and then carried him to a vehicle. No shoes, slippers, street clothes, or glasses would be needed in this scenario. The sheets could have been sanitized quickly to be sure no perp DNA was found on them, especially if there was a struggle that ensued. Even if the attack was bloodless, there would have been some transfer of DNA onto the sheets.

What puzzles me is the 10:00am phone call. Did Bob "normally" dress and make his bed before this time of the morning? I know many people who were lifetime early risers that began to sleep in until mid morning in later years. But if he had taken a phone call already, how likely would he be to have NOT put on his slippers, or NOT made his bed already?

Can anyone recap the details here of this phone call? Is there ANY possibility that the person thought to be Bob on the phone was actually someone else posing as Bob?

Here is some info below and at link.

The 10AM call was a comment posted by the reporter/writer of the OC Register article under the article and all comments have since been removed. It was speculation only at one point that the 10AM call was the housekeeper.

“Officials have said that at 10 a.m. July 27 there was a phone call to Bob Harrod, which is the last time anyone other than Jeff Michaels verified he was at the house. Police are not releasing the content of those phone records.” (Ref comment posted by reporter/writer of OC Register article under the article. All comments have since been removed from website.)

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #10

 

[zwiebel]

Cloudajo, it is so nice when you and Angelo appear and, for a while, the clear light of clarity cuts through the fog created around this case.......

 

[SuziQ]

Which makes me wonder if it was really Bob's money that was the motive or was it to cover up something related to Bob's money.

Your post respectfully snipped. BBM. When I think of this I always go back to AH keeping his computer at Bob's house. Don't people keep their computers their own home or office? I can't help but think that having access to someone's ISP would come in handy when pretending to be them. Which brings me to the email exchange mentioned in AH's depo.

 

[believe09]

What puzzles me is the 10:00am phone call. Did Bob "normally" dress and make his bed before this time of the morning? I know many people who were lifetime early risers that began to sleep in until mid morning in later years. But if he had taken a phone call already, how likely would he be to have NOT put on his slippers, or NOT made his bed already?

I am with you on this. Why wasnt his morning routine complete?

I think it is clear that JeM didnt know that CL had switched her days. He would have been able to plan to fob her off or not return until she went away, likely in frustration. So if someone was playing the role of Bob on the phone, it wasnt JeM and it wasnt anyone who told JeM that CL was coming. JMVHO.

The only reason I can come up with for a perhaps a slow start that morning was Bob's exhaustion from what was clearly a contentious meeting the night before. We dont know his feelings at this time-we dont know if he felt betrayed and saddened at the possibility that love for him was based on his willingness to shell out money in an unending stream to his children and Grandchild.

 

[believe09]

Yes the two PI's hired on this case have disappeared into thin air. I think we did a cost analysis from when we estimated the second PI was hired until the co conservators attorney testified in a hearing to the amount of money he had been paid to date. I used the hourly of a friend of mine who is a PI-based upon that Archangel was paid equaled about 4 hours a month. Hardly beating the bushes and turning over every stone in their quest. IIRC, a good chunk of that time was guarding RB, at least according to the transcript of the hearing. I will find a link to the transcript for that hearing...I think we have it here.

Which reminds me of something else that I thought was SO funny-detailed in the 10/31/11 trial transcript was a reimbursement cost to JuM for a meeting in a hotel room with the PI and the three girls. Apparently the PI was allergic to some animal they all own.

So rather than meeting a McD's or a diner or some such place, they rented a hotel room.

:floorlaugh:

You can take it or leave it as the truth-the trial transcript is also huge...too big to be loaded onto WS server.

 

[zwiebel]

Your post respectfully snipped. BBM. When I think of this I always go back to AH keeping his computer at Bob's house. Don't people keep their computers their own home or office? I can't help but think that having access to someone's ISP would come in handy when pretending to be them. Which brings me to the email exchange mentioned in AH's depo.

Oh, I do hope LE managed to get a copy of that hard drive.

 

[believe09]

I want to switch gears for a bit, if I may-I think there is some knowledge out there about parts of this crime. Big parts of course, but little parts as well. I think it is OK and perhaps time to let that information go. To turn it over. I have a friend who says to me all of the time: it is all good. It is going to be OK. You are going to be OK.

I believe that. I think there is a price you pay when you keep secrets. I cant imagine the effort it must take to hold it in. Anyway, this is jmho.

 

[believe09]

No hearing notes on the docs thread...I will see if they were stored elsewhere..the ones referring to the amount of money Archangel had been paid in the preceding year.