CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #10

[GrainneDhu]

I don't necessarily know that it was fear of poverty that led to Mr. Harrod's disappearance. What I do know is that if mental illness exists in this family, as it did in the Kaczynski family (if it did, I am unaware if TK was ever dx'd mentally ill), it doesn't extend to each member of the family.

Someone knows.
Someone suspects.
Someone is running from their suspicions being confirmed.
Thing with running from a problem it doesn't go away and it often escalates, mole hill into a mountain thing.
Someone should listen to that nagging feeling to come forward they have been trying to ignore, minimize and make exuses to push aside. It will be the best thing for everyone in the end, even though it might not look that way now.

Call an attorney, make a deal for oneself, perhaps even immunity by coming forward and laying that heavy burden down, thus bringing closure to Bob's disappearance. Saving your own intergrity as well as the tremendous amount of pain your family is suffering.

Before he was caught, Ted Kaczynski refused any hints that he needed to seek out help; his symptoms did not become obvious until his mid 20s. In fact, suggesting that Ted might benefit from psychotherapy was one of the things that started a rift between Ted and his family.

It wasn't like they didn't love him or want to help. He was financially supported by his family until he was caught. They just didn't know how to help him.

Since he was caught, Ted has been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia.

Unlike the Kaczynskis, I don't see any members of Bob's family as exhibiting any obvious signs of mental illness. But it is clear to me that one or possibly more than one family member is driven by the need for money far beyond that which normal people experience.

I don't think it is love for money or that family member would stand out by living a miserly life. So far as I can tell at a distance, they all seem to lead comfortable middle class lives.

I really do believe it was fear that made someone or more than one family member act out and then collude over Bob's death.

 

[believe09]

GrainneDhu, I should have said urgent rather than immediate, but thanks for all of your posts on Ted, etc.

Obviously, the situation when Mr Harrod went missing did not need authorization for LE to investigate the house as a possible crime scene. It was urgent.

My point remains: IF LE, 3 plus yrs later, wants to do another inspection of the house, it would wisely serve the owner to grant access. As a courtesy only, it might ask the resident (IF there) to OK the time for such.

Despite what has been declared upthread, the "owner" of the Carnation Dr residence is NOT Bob Harrod, nor has it been since the family trust was originated. The residence is "owned" by the Harrod Family Trust. It is part of the Trust Estate.

And in the end, LE would get its warrant served on the Owner for certain, and not anyone who happens to be in-residence at the time. LE is smart like that, you bet.

Mrs Harrod gave consent to search in 2011, undoubtedly. Something tells me that any evidence found will be legitimately entered into any kind of future court action and the prospective DA will have no worries. I doubt there will be an issue with any other searches of the property that might have happened recently or in the future. We were tipped off on the 2011 by a close neighbor who was in a position to observe what was going on, but all searches do not have a CSI van and marked cars. JMVHO.

 

[believe09]

GrainnDhu, I think you are spot on. On a philosophical note, I also think that the fear which drove this act might be tied to proof of love fwiw. We have a husband and wife with substantial assets. The family relationships seem to be stormy, but there is no question (thanks to the insight of CAExile) that there were money problems for the children and the grandson. Whether these were issues of judgement, who knows, but Bob bailed them out.

He bailed them out over and over. He provided them with homes and he paid their bills. He did his part. These folks were substantially adults mind you, but he continued to care for them. Georgia dies, there is a rift and Bob finds peace, happiness and love again. These children have the dual shock of seeing their father swept away in a tide of emotion that has it's origin in a past that doesnt include either them or their mother. On top of that he tells them he is adding her to his estate planning and that the gravy train is over.

It is a form of abandonment, I guess. I struggle a lot with my perception of this family-I see a lot of fear as well. But I need to try and find a way to have it make sense in my mind. I think it is too simple to say they didnt want to share. JMVHO.

 

[suzyq211]

Great post, Believe.

 

[GrainneDhu]

GrainnDhu, I think you are spot on. On a philosophical note, I also think that the fear which drove this act might be tied to proof of love fwiw. We have a husband and wife with substantial assets. The family relationships seem to be stormy, but there is no question (thanks to the insight of CAExile) that there were money problems for the children and the grandson. Whether these were issues of judgement, who knows, but Bob bailed them out.

He bailed them out over and over. He provided them with homes and he paid their bills. He did his part. These folks were substantially adults mind you, but he continued to care for them. Georgia dies, there is a rift and Bob finds peace, happiness and love again. These children have the dual shock of seeing their father swept away in a tide of emotion that has it's origin in a past that doesnt include either them or their mother. On top of that he tells them he is adding her to his estate planning and that the gravy train is over.

It is a form of abandonment, I guess. I struggle a lot with my perception of this family-I see a lot of fear as well. But I need to try and find a way to have it make sense in my mind. I think it is too simple to say they didnt want to share. JMVHO.

I agree.

None of this made sense to me until I started trying to see it from the point of view of various possible perpetrators. Sure, there's anger but anger is often an emotion that is covering something else up. I started musing on what that something else could be and the only answer that made any kind of sense to me was fear.

Could it have been physical fear of Bob? I honestly don't think so, he seemed somewhat physically frail to me in the video clips I saw.

If not physical fear, then what? And that is when I thought the answer might be a deep fear of poverty. Since the recession began, one of the current fads in journalism is human interest stories featuring formerly middle class people who are facing financial disaster. There was one story where the parents were talking about how their family could not possibly do without their $100+/month cable TV, their equally enormous family cell phones, etc. Their lives were filled with things that I consciously decided not to have before I became disabled and I can honestly say I have a rich and full life without them.

But those people honestly couldn't see it. These were the foundations of their way of living and they were profoundly afraid that without those things, their lives would be barren and unbearable.

And now I believe there is at least one family member (probably all of them) who are carefully not looking in one particular direction because they don't want to know. It is too scary for them to think of what life would be like if they gave LE their information.

I don't know any way of discovering the courage to do such a thing except by actually doing it.

 

[believe09]

I think it is more admirable and therefore more deal worthy to come clean before the storm starts to gather. Because I truly believe that there is going to be a confluence of events that sets some kind of justice in motion for Bob.

Regardless, telling where he is will mean the most. lease:

 

[zwiebel]

Perhaps a need for Bob and at the same time, a resentment of that need, have been a factor here? I have also gained an impression of a more fundamental resentment against him - that his first wife passed before he did. Of course I could be wrong. I hope so.

Another important aspect for those who may have knowledge of what happened is safety. I am not convinced everyone concerned is as safe as they may think. That really worries me. The unthinkable has already happened once. It could happen again.

 

[LostOldUserName]

Wow I think I am finally up to date with Bob's case. I was really hoping that by the time I had come to the final page that Bob would have been brought home to the Mrs to rest in peace.

 

[believe09]

Wow I think I am finally up to date with Bob's case. I was really hoping that by the time I had come to the final page that Bob would have been brought home to the Mrs to rest in peace.

I love your user name-I have been there!!!

I wish you had put in all of that time and found that Bob was home too.

 

[zwiebel]

BBM

I love your user name-I have been there!!!

I wish you had put in all of that time and found that Bob was home too.

I was going to say exactly the same!

 

[zwiebel]

I do have a feeling it might happen in the not too distant future. Maybe wishful thinking on my part, but there's no harm in wishing, is there?

 

[gitana1]

Okay. The trust is attached as Exhibit 2 to the declaration attached to the following document: RESPONDENT'S OPPOSITION TO PETITIONER'S REQUEST FOR RENT OR REDUCTION IN SPOUSAL SUPPORT; MEMORANDUM OF POINTS AND AUTHORITIES; DECLARATION OF ERNEST P. ALGORRI. It was filed on 3-9-12.

The trust itself is titled "Living Trust".

So, it is part of the official court's record.

I wanted to point out also that in other filed documents, it is stated that the assets of the parties (Robert and Georgia Harrod) were divided into a by-pass trust and a survivor's trust.

That, to me, sounds like an A B trust, which means there is one trust document which has two trust pathways in it, or two types of trusts within one document. Here's a link to an explanation about this kind of trust: http://www.estateplanningsocal.com/ab-trust-administration.asp

But, I'm not sure. I'm not an estate attorney! I'm saying this because there could be only one trust document.

In other news, as I looked through the file, I noticed a declaration by the grandson stating he wanted to keep the secret settlement agreement sealed because other filed documents ended up on the internet quickly, and he insinuated that Fontelle's attorney had a hand in that, or so it seemed to me.

That is laughable to me. Totally laughable. This family clearly has no clue that there are people who never knew Mr. Harrod who actually give a damn and are following the court cases carefully.

You don't need access to the attorneys or the parties to get these documents.

Oh, but he's right. The secret settlement will probably end up on the "internet" rather quickly. What's he trying to hide?

I think these people don't want the pressure that public exposure of their dirty little secrets will lead to.

Finally, I'm not sure what the debate or conversation is about the trust. If you guys want to give me a list of questions, I have the trust and I can go to lunch with an estate lawyer friend of mine and get answers. Let me know!

 

[Cubby]

Thank you, gitana! The thank you button is just not enough. :tyou:
Excellent link for the trust explanation.

I'd really like to see that super secret settlement agreement in the hands of AH's mortgage lender.

 

[zwiebel]

I do believe Bob will be brought home. I just don't know if it will be because his body is found, or if someone does what they know they have to do, and speaks out. Sadly, I do not believe he will return alive.

What do others think?

 

[gitana1]

Thank you, gitana! The thank you button is just not enough. :tyou:
Excellent link for the trust explanation.

I'd really like to see that super secret settlement agreement in the hands of AH's mortgage lender.

What do you mean? BTW, I am going to see if I can get a copy either today or sometime this week.

 

[zwiebel]

gitana1, you are a superhero! Your post only appeared after my last but one post, where I was feeling a little down about getting any more info to help Bob. I'm going to request admin install a triple thanks button just for your posts!

 

[zwiebel]

So, the Trust was private, and now it isn't. That's what happens when families fall out over money.
Does anyone think 'the internet' could possibly mean.......us?

 

[Cubby]

What do you mean? BTW, I am going to see if I can get a copy either today or sometime this week.

AH recently secured a loan on a 700K+ property. Given his mortgage payment history we wondered how he qualified for a mortgage so soon after defaulting/non payment on the loan from his grandfather.

 

[zwiebel]

Don't know about over your way, but here mortgage companies have the right to call in loans immediately, and in full, if inaccurate info was supplied during the application.

 

[zwiebel]

They have a duty to their shareholders after all, and they take that stuff more seriously now, after the banking meltdown.