CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #11

[believe09]

While I'm still on my, 'little things that have bugged me', thing - I wonder who is officially responsible for stating that Bob's wallet and keys were missing?

It can't be SIL because he wasn't overly concerned on the day so would hardly have checked for Bob's wallet and keys. And he didn't return to the house after. I don't know about two of the daughters, but we know JuM and AH were definitely in the house following Bob's disappearance. So I suppose one of them must have been responsible for reporting that information to the police? Unless it was the daughter who also made the NAMUS report?

These women had control of the home pretty quickly after the welfare check. Prior to that, of course, AH had control of the house. They had ample time to do much more than a cursory check for Bob's personal items. I have always assumed that their inability to find those items might have caused the statements, but like everything else we dont really know. Did Bob carry a checkbook? It seems likely that he might have leaned more towards cash and checkbook than an ATM card, but that is more because of my perception of his generation.

If he did carry one, apparently that was found because it isnt listed.

 

[Oriah]

My personal pet theory re: the wallet and keys are that they were either on Mr. Harrod at the time he disappeared, and then someone in a panic thought it would be a good idea to return them to his residence, so they would be subsequently 'found' after the fact. Or they were left behind accidentally, and then moved from one place to another inside the residence.
Does anyone recall what Mr. Harrod's wallet was made of material-wise? And I am dying to know if they printed his glasses. More than one set would make me go hmm.

And an additional note- any of those items would be extremely useful for K9 dna scent work, due to the dense nature of skin oils retained on certain surfaces. So I hope whoever cleaned the residence, forgot to windex Mr. Harrod's glasses.

 

[zwiebel]

I thought it was stated they hadn't been found. A great shame I think, because I would suspect Bob's wallet was an old leather one - just a feeling. Would that be a good surface for scent, or would the animal scent mix it up?

Although I have to say, I think there is a strong possibility the wallet and keys will never be found, even when Bob is. I doubt the chequebook ever went missing, somehow.

ETA: Yes, on cloudajo's post above, it is stated they were gone. I don't think they were ever found, unless I'm missing something?

 

[zwiebel]

Just one more thing about that phone conversation. These were the last words spoken by a father to his daughter. Given those circumstances, you'd think she would remember what he said, rather than what she said.

 

[Oriah]

I thought it was stated they hadn't been found. A great shame I think, because I would suspect Bob's wallet was an old leather one - just a feeling. Would that be a good surface for scent, or would the animal scent mix it up?

Although I have to say, I think there is a strong possibility the wallet and keys will never be found, even when Bob is. I doubt the chequebook ever went missing, somehow.

ETA: Yes, on cloudajo's post above, it is stated they were gone. I don't think they were ever found, unless I'm missing something?

It's funny you say that, I've always thought his wallet was probably an old leather one also! Must be having a dad from the same generation who gets a new wallet for xmas every year- same kind, same material.

I don't know if the keys and/or wallet were found- equally unsure if we would know that, if they were? That might be something LE would retain. But since it's been stated that his glasses were left behind, well, at least we have that. Glass, plastics, polymers etc hold onto skin oils (loaded with scent) very well.

And nope- if the wallet were found and were made from an animal-based material it wouldn't affect a K9 trained to alert to either specific DNA or HRD. In fact, it's often useful because some natural products (such as leather) kind of suck scent into them. Frankly I would be thrilled if Mr. Harrod had a wallet that was found- or even a second wallet somewhere. They are usually carried closely on a person for roughly 50% of each day. Awesome scent source for any number of K9 jobs.

 

[Oriah]

I thought it was stated they hadn't been found. A great shame I think, because I would suspect Bob's wallet was an old leather one - just a feeling. Would that be a good surface for scent, or would the animal scent mix it up?

Although I have to say, I think there is a strong possibility the wallet and keys will never be found, even when Bob is. I doubt the chequebook ever went missing, somehow.

ETA: Yes, on cloudajo's post above, it is stated they were gone. I don't think they were ever found, unless I'm missing something?

BBM:
Question, zwiebel- is that because you think they were separated from Mr. Harrod (at or during the time of) his disappearance? Or prior to? I think the time frame is so very important here.

ETA: anyone know if Mr. Harrod had more than one wallet?

 

[zwiebel]

Oriah, I don't think Bob would have had more than one wallet for everday use. But, was he the type of man to throw away the old one when he bought, or was given, a new one? Or put the old one in a drawer, maybe filled with those old business cards/ receipts he didn't need anymore.? Personally, I think an old wallet of his was, or is, still in the house.

I also think he might have had a matching chequebook cover, and there is still a slight chance that might be still available.

About a possible separation of Bob from his keys and wallet; My personal opinion is, Bob never picked up those items to leave the house. The last direct scent of him on them would be of a living, breathing Bob. I think the wallet was discarded, cash removed and cards destroyed at the same time as Bob vanished, but won't be with him when he is found.


The keys, I think, may have been discarded later and would have been harder to destroy. Maybe, just maybe, there is a chance they could be recovered. I think the best chance though, is a chequebook cover. And those specs of course; uncleaned. Even a wearer can forget to clean them, in my experience!

 

[believe09]

I guess why discard the keys? Unless all of the locks were changed-and I mean handle and any deadbolts. If some of the original locks remain intact, those keys might come in handy again some time.

 

[zwiebel]

I suppose I was thinking along the lines of that because Bob vanished, apparently with his keys, it could get a little uncomfortable if they turned up later in someone's possession. Of course, if they were discovered at a later date, tucked away in the house somewhere, then they might still be around, even if locks have been changed. Would LE be likely to tell if they had found them, or am I being naive?

 

[zwiebel]

Correction about the credit cards.

'his car, glasses and credit cards were left behind'

Quote by Det C Loomis from LA Times article, Feb 2nd 2010. Post 111 by Teamer, thread 7, page 5.

 

[zwiebel]

So Bob didn't keep his credit cards in his wallet? Is that a normal habit in the US? I don't know anyone who does that, but maybe you guys have more than most Europeans. Everybody has more than the Germans, mind you, who thoroughly approve of saving.

 

[believe09]

I suppose I was thinking along the lines of that because Bob vanished, apparently with his keys, it could get a little uncomfortable if they turned up later in someone's possession. Of course, if they were discovered at a later date, tucked away in the house somewhere, then they might still be around, even if locks have been changed. Would LE be likely to tell if they had found them, or am I being naive?

In terms of the keys, I suppose that if I were the person who took them from him, I would simply say that they were a set that Bob had given me.

So Bob didn't keep his credit cards in his wallet? Is that a normal habit in the US? I don't know anyone who does that, but maybe you guys have more than most Europeans. Everybody has more than the Germans, mind you, who thoroughly approve of saving.

If Bob was a cash and carry kind of guy, I can imagine that he didnt carry his credit cards. He perhaps used them in an emergency or when he traveled.

 

[believe09]

zwiebel, you raise an interesting point about the wallet and the checkbook cover. Sounds like a gift set to me-I wonder if that is a possibility? I wonder what kind of gifts Bob liked to receive??

Ah well. So potentially if the checkbook was found, then the wallet description should have been pretty specific. To LE I mean. I suppose Mrs Harrod could provide both.

 

[SuziQ]

I suppose I was thinking along the lines of that because Bob vanished, apparently with his keys, it could get a little uncomfortable if they turned up later in someone's possession. Of course, if they were discovered at a later date, tucked away in the house somewhere, then they might still be around, even if locks have been changed. Would LE be likely to tell if they had found them, or am I being naive?

It's interesting how what's found or not found with a deceased person can point right back to a suspect who gave LE the last seen description. Just off the top of my head I remember a woman who supposedly disappeared during the day was found with her nightime dental retainer in her mouth. Another woman who went missing while jogging and yet her shoes were found on the wrong feet. Another who's husbands cigarette butt was found in her grave. And many many others, men, women and children, found in their pajamas, but supposedly had disappeared wearing clothes.

I pray everday that Bob will be found along with any clue he holds.

 

[believe09]

I pray everday that Bob will be found along with any clue he holds.

respectfully snipped....beautifully put.

Bob, please surface in some way.

 

[zwiebel]

zwiebel, you raise an interesting point about the wallet and the checkbook cover. Sounds like a gift set to me-I wonder if that is a possibility? I wonder what kind of gifts Bob liked to receive??

Ah well. So potentially if the checkbook was found, then the wallet description should have been pretty specific. To LE I mean. I suppose Mrs Harrod could provide both.

Well, you never know. Luck could be on LE's side with the cover. The reassuring thing is, if Mrs Harrod can help, she will. It's nice to think of a family member rooting for Bob. I saw another supportive post for him on ID TV. That was nice to see too.

 

[believe09]

My brain is completely non linear today-how did they know his brand of sneakers? I dont know what brand of sneakers my grandfather wore. Which means nothing-just curious.

 

[zwiebel]

It's interesting how what's found or not found with a deceased person can point right back to a suspect who gave LE the last seen description. Just off the top of my head I remember a woman who supposedly disappeared during the day was found with her nightime dental retainer in her mouth. Another woman who went missing while jogging and yet her shoes were found on the wrong feet. Another who's husbands cigarette butt was found in her grave. And many many others, men, women and children, found in their pajamas, but supposedly had disappeared wearing clothes.

I pray everday that Bob will be found along with any clue he holds.

All of these things...No matter how clever you were, or thought you were, something like these only seems obvious in retrospect. Big mistakes like that are so easy to make.

It's like the classic case cited for trainee journalists, where an article is proofed four times, but still goes to print with a blaring, temporary headline that says something like 'Another boring story by old windbag'.
So obvious, you just don't spot it. LE will though, when they find him.

 

[zwiebel]

My brain is completely non linear today-how did they know his brand of sneakers? I dont know what brand of sneakers my grandfather wore. Which means nothing-just curious.

I've just been searching all the pics of him, hoping, in vain, for a glimpse of a wallet. There is one where Bob has his legs outstretched and a pair of white trainers are fully revealed. Can't recall a logo, but I suspect a teenager could name the brand from a mile off, logo or not.

 

[zwiebel]

There's another of him opening a gift. Not a wallet, sadly. Looks like a phone set, maybe.