CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #11

[zwiebel]

What a relief. I've been searching and searching and came up with nothing and was fed up. Especially as earlier I thought I found something really new, checked and you guys were all talking about it threads back.

But I have spotted pics of Bob wearing rings. What looks like a gold wedding band on his left hand in two pics with FH, then a much earlier one with a thicker ring (possibly with stone, possibly the Masonic ring) on his right hand. Most importantly, I think, is with both the latest pics of the wedding band hand, Bob's right hand is also visible and there's no ring on it. So he probably was only wearing the wedding band when he vanished, IMO.

 

[believe09]

So I wonder where his Masonic ring is then? Maybe it was in the safe? Did it make it onto the memorabilia list?

 

[zwiebel]

Oh no, more searching!

 

[zwiebel]

So I wonder where his Masonic ring is then? Maybe it was in the safe? Did it make it onto the memorabilia list?

No. Just 'Our Mother's jewellry or pawn tickets' (????).
The safe was JuM and JeM's, but perhaps they allowed Bob to store some valuables in it, as it was in his house, along with the keys (JuM stated she knew where they were).

 

[zwiebel]

Now that's a thought. I wonder if Bob hid his house keys with the safe keys? Or was this a hidden key place that only JuM knew about?

 

[believe09]

Hidden keys. That is an interesting thought that could take us in all different directions...

 

[GrainneDhu]

These women had control of the home pretty quickly after the welfare check. Prior to that, of course, AH had control of the house. They had ample time to do much more than a cursory check for Bob's personal items. I have always assumed that their inability to find those items might have caused the statements, but like everything else we dont really know. Did Bob carry a checkbook? It seems likely that he might have leaned more towards cash and checkbook than an ATM card, but that is more because of my perception of his generation.

If he did carry one, apparently that was found because it isnt listed.

My father, who is within a week of Bob's age, really prefers to use a credit card. He uses one of those cash-back cards, he always pays off the entire balance within the grace period (so no interest charges) and he likes the consumer protections it affords him. He's very canny about managing his money. He uses checks for paying bills.

It seems possible to me that Bob would have been equally canny.

The description of Bob's clothing has always bothered me. Basically, it sounds like he was dressed all in white. In a hot climate, that makes sense but still, no pale blue? no stripes or patterns of any sort?

I can't decide if my uneasy feelings about Bob's clothes are based on anything more than my enculturated feelings towards being dressed entirely in white (mourning clothes and unlucky to wear if not in mourning). Part of me recoils at the thought of a man who was looking forward so eagerly to the next phase of his life as married man choosing to dress entirely in white. But is there more to it than that?

 

[GrainneDhu]

I thought it was stated they hadn't been found. A great shame I think, because I would suspect Bob's wallet was an old leather one - just a feeling. Would that be a good surface for scent, or would the animal scent mix it up?

Although I have to say, I think there is a strong possibility the wallet and keys will never be found, even when Bob is. I doubt the chequebook ever went missing, somehow.

ETA: Yes, on cloudajo's post above, it is stated they were gone. I don't think they were ever found, unless I'm missing something?

I'm not Oriah but if the wallet was leather, I would think that would be ideal. Leather, even glazed (shiny) leather is very porous and absorbs skin oils like mad. And a wallet is frequently handled, so the owner's scent permeates it thoroughly. So much so that as a seminar demo I used to ask 6 different people to put their wallets on a table, then I would sniff their hands and match them to their own wallets (in order to prove that there is nothing mysterious about scent detection when using hot scent).

The leather scent doesn't really matter. If you think of scent particles as coloured marbles, it's no problem to pick out the red marbles (salient scent) from amongst the brown marbles (leather scent).

Like you, I have a feeling Bob's wallet and keys will never be found. Whoever was responsible for Bob's disappearance clearly wanted him to never be found; leaving something like a wallet with his body would guarantee it was quickly identified.

I have a feeling that Bob's wallet and keys are sitting in a landfill somewhere under many tens of thousands of tons of trash.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Oriah, I don't think Bob would have had more than one wallet for everday use. But, was he the type of man to throw away the old one when he bought, or was given, a new one? Or put the old one in a drawer, maybe filled with those old business cards/ receipts he didn't need anymore.? Personally, I think an old wallet of his was, or is, still in the house.

I also think he might have had a matching chequebook cover, and there is still a slight chance that might be still available.

About a possible separation of Bob from his keys and wallet; My personal opinion is, Bob never picked up those items to leave the house. The last direct scent of him on them would be of a living, breathing Bob. I think the wallet was discarded, cash removed and cards destroyed at the same time as Bob vanished, but won't be with him when he is found.


The keys, I think, may have been discarded later and would have been harder to destroy. Maybe, just maybe, there is a chance they could be recovered. I think the best chance though, is a chequebook cover. And those specs of course; uncleaned. Even a wearer can forget to clean them, in my experience!

Even someone who is obsessed with clean lenses like me usually cleans the lenses but doesn't clean the earpieces. Those earpieces are in direct skin contact for many hours a day and they are plastic, which is porous and sucks up scent. Even wire rimmed or no rim glasses usually have plastic for the part that goes over the ears, for comfort's sake.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I guess why discard the keys? Unless all of the locks were changed-and I mean handle and any deadbolts. If some of the original locks remain intact, those keys might come in handy again some time.

I posted once that I hoped Fontelle had all the locks in the house re-keyed and I believe someone replied that she had, on the suggestion of one of Bob's daughters.

Now I wish she had gone the extra (and expensive) step of getting new locks, preferably a different brand from the old ones.

Perhaps she is like me, though, and qualifies for the T-shirt that reads "I am legally blind and armed; any questions?" Security by Benelli is far from the worst security system out there.

 

[zwiebel]

I posted once that I hoped Fontelle had all the locks in the house re-keyed and I believe someone replied that she had, on the suggestion of one of Bob's daughters.

Now I wish she had gone the extra (and expensive) step of getting new locks, preferably a different brand from the old ones.

Perhaps she is like me, though, and qualifies for the T-shirt that reads "I am legally blind and armed; any questions?" Security by Benelli is far from the worst security system out there.

Yes, I think it was JuM who made the suggestion.

O/T but, that T-shirt reminds me of a recent event in England, where police tasered a blind man after mistaking his white stick for a samurai sword. Poor man did an interview where he recounted being yelled at to put his hands out for the cuffs and just having to repeat, 'I'm blind, I'm blind,' until the message got through.
He seemed to take the whole event in very good spirits, considering.

 

[believe09]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod-Court Documents No discussion


This is a link to the Police Report and Well Being Check. When JuM called Mrs Harrod and prompted her to file the MP report, the clothing description given was white PANTS, white socks, white shoes and white shirt.

We know Mrs Harrod wasnt there that day because she was out of the state. She was provided with the SUV story and it seems reasonable that she was provided with the all white clothing description.

At some point, pants were changed to shorts. And shirt was changed to unknown. And the SUV story fell off the face of the planet. Even the daughter who set up the NAMUS profile had the sense not to include it. IMO.

Huh.

 

[believe09]

Perhaps she is like me, though, and qualifies for the T-shirt that reads "I am legally blind and armed; any questions?" Security by Benelli is far from the worst security system out there.

Ugh. This is not the time for something to happen that removes her from being able to push push push as she has.

 

[zwiebel]

If anything, anything at all were to happen to Fontelle at this point - even a slip and fall - somebody out there had better be praying it happens in front of a chief of police, an archbishop, a high- ranking medical consultant and maybe an FBI man as well. It would open everything up again; media would be all over, LE would have to have a mighty push to clear it up, and I think her family and friends would come out with all guns blazing. No questions left unasked, no avenue left unexplored. As for what would happen here.....

Thank heavens, I feel Fontelle at least is safe. I wouldn't like to guess about anybody else though.

 

[zwiebel]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod-Court Documents No discussion


This is a link to the Police Report and Well Being Check. When JuM called Mrs Harrod and prompted her to file the MP report, the clothing description given was white PANTS, white socks, white shoes and white shirt.

We know Mrs Harrod wasnt there that day because she was out of the state. She was provided with the SUV story and it seems reasonable that she was provided with the all white clothing description.

At some point, pants were changed to shorts. And shirt was changed to unknown. And the SUV story fell off the face of the planet. Even the daughter who set up the NAMUS profile had the sense not to include it. IMO.

Huh.

As you said earlier believe09, shock can do strange things to people. And information, especially when passed through another party, can become confused. But when it keeps happening, again and again, a person can't help but wonder why.

I'm guessing professional eyes find it even stranger than we do.

 

[believe09]

So where is Bob? Close? Far? Has he been moved?

I doubt the last one. That takes a strong, cold, evilness in my opinion. It is bad enough to have killed him accidentally or otherwise. To go back and revisit your handiwork? I dont see it here. Just my non professional opinion.

He is near one of the principal's houses I bet. And I dont think everyone who might have a piece of this story knows exactly where he is either. Again, just my non professional opinion.

Boy, here is a thought-any chance who ever carried this out dislikes a family member more than another? Would you be tempted to dump Bob somewhere close to that person?

 

[GrainneDhu]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod-Court Documents No discussion


This is a link to the Police Report and Well Being Check. When JuM called Mrs Harrod and prompted her to file the MP report, the clothing description given was white PANTS, white socks, white shoes and white shirt.

We know Mrs Harrod wasnt there that day because she was out of the state. She was provided with the SUV story and it seems reasonable that she was provided with the all white clothing description.

At some point, pants were changed to shorts. And shirt was changed to unknown. And the SUV story fell off the face of the planet. Even the daughter who set up the NAMUS profile had the sense not to include it. IMO.

Huh.

I still can't figure out why it was booted to Fontelle to call for a welfare check. Considering Bob's age, I think LE would have done a check based on a report from any family member or friend.

I wonder how Fontelle learned about the money that Bob gave to the BL. Was it something she discussed with Bob or was it information she was given by someone else in the family? And when did she get that information? If it came up the day Bob disappeared, that gives me the impression that someone was trying to feed LE a suspect from the git-go.

Too bad BL and her husband were apparently easy to rule out.

 

[GrainneDhu]

So where is Bob? Close? Far? Has he been moved?

I doubt the last one. That takes a strong, cold, evilness in my opinion. It is bad enough to have killed him accidentally or otherwise. To go back and revisit your handiwork? I dont see it here. Just my non professional opinion.

He is near one of the principal's houses I bet. And I dont think everyone who might have a piece of this story knows exactly where he is either. Again, just my non professional opinion.

Boy, here is a thought-any chance who ever carried this out dislikes a family member more than another? Would you be tempted to dump Bob somewhere close to that person?

Only if I knew the area where the disliked family member lived pretty thoroughly.

While I don't have a lot of respect for FBI profilers, I do respect the idea that is behind geographic profiling: criminals have a certain area that they are most familiar with and therefore most likely to commit crimes within. If you put a dot on a map where the criminal lives, there's one small ring around it representing the area that the perp feels is too close for comfort. Then there's a larger ring, which represents the perp's knowledge zone, the area where they feel most confident.

Disposing of a corpse isn't easy. I think we can all agree that Bob left his home in a vehicle, since he was not spotted outside the day he disappeared. Getting a 160 pound corpse out of a vehicle isn't going to be quick and it's going to call for some significant muscle power. The perp had to know the area well enough to feel confident that they would have 5-15 minutes without anyone else coming by.

And it just occurred to me that with the heat that day, rigor mortis would have set in faster. It's a chemical reaction in the muscles and, like any chemical reaction, heat speeds it up. So it may well have been more difficult to remove Bob's body from the vehicle than I thought.

Unless Bob got into the vehicle under some pretext and was driven out somewhere and then killed. That would solve most or all of the physical problems in disposing of a corpse; no need for muscle power if the victim can move on their own. It doesn't change that the perp would have needed assurance that no one would drive by during the crime.

In any case, I think Bob is somewhere relatively close to either his own home or the perp's home.

I feel absolutely certain that only the perp (and perhaps a single accomplice) knows where Bob is. The others who know what happened really don't want to know where Bob is.

 

[zwiebel]

I don't think it is unusual at all for murderers to try and spread or shift the blame. It probably seems too cold for most people to contemplate, but most people don't commit murder. I do think that it takes a 'special' kind of killer who revisits the scene of a victim's body - Dahmer, Nielsen, Bundy spring to mind. Didn't end well for them either, did it?

I suppose most of the people who have suffered through a loved one who betrayed them, let alone hurt or killed them, never thought that person could do that to them. But it happens all the time.

As for the days following Bob's disappearance, what was going on there? Some people seemed treat it as a crime scene almost immediately, and either fled or needed to be accompanied - for safety? Except JuM, who rushed straight in fearlessly.....to change linens.
Fontelle did the same of course, but she came looking for her husband. She may have been a little foolhardy, but at least I can work out her motive. It seemed clear as day then, and hasn't changed since.

 

[zwiebel]

GrainneDhu, I recall reading something about a murderer's triangle (in geographical terms). Do you know anything about that?