CA - Christopher Dorner kills 4 in tri-county rampage, Feb 2013 - #3

[Sonya610]

On air now. Greta will interview the two maids:

Greta Van Susteren
Tonight ON THE RECORD at 10pm/ET Fox News: We're live in Big Bear, CA with the latest on the Christopher Dorner investigation...tune in.

Please post a direct link. Greta apparently has a lot of pointless links and messages.

 

[i.b.nora]

Turn around, find your television, tune it to the FOX channel in your area, and there you will find Greta. HTH.

 

[Sonya610]

I believe that human nature is forever intriguing, and why/how people select their victims in cases like this (I call him a spree murderer rather than a mass murderer or serial killer). I believe that there are things to learn from each.and.every situation one encounters, and things in the scale of Dorner's rampage can teach us a whole lot about the human mind.

Okay. PEACE! Human nature is intriguing. I take an interest in the smart predators. Dorner wasn't that smart, his kill rate is rather low all things considered. Dorner was conflicted, and sad, and kind of pleasing/pathetic.

If the targets are in L.A. you hunt in L.A. preferably before they realize they are being hunted, scampering off to Big Bear with snow and icey roads to take over cabins and freeze your a___ off while taking a few hostages isn't exactly a great plan.

Why do you find the mindset fascinating? Serious question.

 

[deoneta]

The question I have is WHY did he go to Big Bear?

Everyone knows you don't flee to small mountain communities (or small towns anywhere) if you are wanted and highly publicized. Plus who would want to drive in snow and deal with cold if they didn't have to?

Did he have a friend that told him he could go there and hide out for a while? Are charges pending for that friend?

I don't get it, maybe it was mentioned and I missed it?

I believe he has or had ties to that community, but beyond that, I believe he fled to that small town for the same reason he burned his vehicle and spared the carjacking and kidnapping victims. He wasn't trying to evade the police. He was trying to lure them to carry out his vendetta. All MOO

 

[Sonya610]

Turn around, find your television, tune it to the FOX channel in your area, and there you will find Greta. HTH.

I do not watch television (seriously). I do not have cable or a working television. I have the internets.

 

[Lois Lane]

Bill Glass, 81, grew up in the mountain structure near the Barton Flats area that burned after a man involved in a shootout with sheriff's deputies was cornered inside. The shooter, who died in the structure, was presumed to be manhunt target Chris Dorner.

Glass' father William built that structure and the surrounding camp in the 1920s after returning to California from World War I.

"I was downstairs and my girlfriend said, `Turn on the TV' around 2:30 (p.m.). I started watching it solid for about eight hours. I watched it all."

http://www.redlandsdailyfacts.com/ci_22582978

http://7oaksmtncabins.com/

 

[Soulmagent]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...other-and-daughter-key-to-ending-manhunt?lite


In the basement, it looks like his body on the ground, with head next to the wall, right flags along the right side of his body, and left leg out towards the firefighter. I blew it up in a photo editing program, and it sure looks like a body.

The more I blow it up, there also appears to be a rifle lying on the right side of his body.

I think if that is his body it is very odd that it is the only thing in left from the fire one would be able to tell what it used to be.

:waitasec: I didnt see the gun but that would even be more puzzling.. Yet there the redflags are making me not know what to think.

Thank you for working with that photo.

 

[danzn16]

I've been posing the same question all this time. Someone said because he went up there as a kid alot and that his mother had undeveloped property up there. With only 3 ways in and out, I thought it was suicide for him to be up there. That's why I thought he commandeered another vehicle and left the area.

Maybe suicide by cop was exactly what he wanted in addition to taking out as many cops as he could so be would be remembered.

 

[jjenny]

Well if there actually was a shot inside then it sounds like an actual suicide, and not a suicide by cop.

 

[danzn16]

I dont think we know what "burn" means in LEO speak. We think we do, but we may not. It may mean something as simple as the tear gas canisters being fired. Or to tear gas the suspect.

http://www.infowars.com/lapd-audio-from-dorner-siege-burn-this-mother****er/

This states burners is LE slang for tear gas canisters. Burners is also slang for guns.

 

[Voice4theSilent]

I think the reason was two-fold. One is that he knew the area since his mother still owns property up there. The other, borrowing someone's info from a Big Bear chatroom who lives in BB, was that the day his truck broke down, it was Law Enforcement Appreciation Day where all LE could ride the lifts for free. It's possible he saw them as sitting ducks, like in an arcade game, but the truck breaking down ruined that plan.

One of the misconceptions I have seen posted before is that last Thursday was "Law Enforcement Appreciation Day" where LEO's could ski all day for free (which I think would have been more of a motivation for him to go up there) however here is what the Snow Summit site says (last Wednesday and Thursday's dates were listed prior to the date having passed):

"Honor Our Heroes / Uniform Days

Law Enforcement, EMS, Firefighters & Active Military, Bear Mountain and Snow Summit would like to invite you to take advantage of Honor Our Heros/Uniform Days on the following dates: March 6 & 7, 2013; April 3 & 4, 2013. This special offer is to show our appreciation and support for your hard work. Take your valid work identification to any Bear Mountain or Snow Summit ticket window and you will receive a $38.00 lift ticket. Up to a $21 savings!"

http://www.snowsummit.com/ski/rates/discounts-specials/

Of course it could have been his motivation to go up there but it doesn't sound to me like it would have been a place crawling with LEO's.

Also, his truck couldn't have gotten him much closer to the skiing so if that was really his motivation, since he had several hours up there before his truck was discovered, he could have easily carried out his plan.

Perhaps his motivation was as simple as it is a beautiful place to die. Who knows???

eta - web address

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I think that the LAPD, LASD, RSD/PD, SBPD/SO will all re evaluate their response processes; the tactics and procedures used will be reassessed, and tightened/fine tuned for any other similar situation (and that's NOT saying what they did was wrong...).

I think we can learn a ton about how mental illness hides, and how to find it. When you consider that this man had to take the MMPI and other psychological evaluations and got through them and hired into a job that involves weapons, then you also have to look at that process and how to better interpret the MMPI/other evaluation exams. Steps may be made towards a better "weed-er outer" (if that's even a phrase) during background processes.

It may teach us something about how depression works; most people who are depressed are NOT violent towards others; but they are to themselves. So did he have true depression, or was there a character flaw which, combined with depression, can alert us to a more substantial risk towards violence of others? Is there something which we can identify that might allow us to more effectively treat MI?

It may teach us something of how the public responds to the "anti-hero". How to gauge reactions from the public at large (there were people with signs, for heaven's sake, encouraging Dorner!) and how to avoid/divert this sort of thing for the future (which will also lessen risks to LE, and to the public).

It may teach LE how to better handle a domestic terrorist, or respond during a terrorist attack, in the future.

If it gives us a picture of how this criminal, evil-hearted man thought, then there may be ways to use that knowledge to further protect ourselves somehow in the future.

What made him this rage filled? What happened when he was little that made him an "injustice collector"? How did he get past the psych screenings (and while I don't know for sure, I suspect they do clearances in the military, too, for some of the jobs. Did he take one? Was he cleared? how did he manage that?)

How did a man, who was a bit of a bully, get this far and into a position of responsibility in LE and in the Navy?

Knowing more of that, we can better construct defenses against people like him for the future; we can start to see signs and symptoms of MI and may be able to better predict their actions, violent or otherwise, and be able to weed out those folks from armed positions.

There are many, many things that this man can teach us, if we get past the horror of his actions and delve into his mind a bit more. And there are things which were, in hindsight, huge screw-ups (e.g. him passing the psych evals) that may be able to be corrected for future applicants.

And on and on...many, many things we can take away and have this at least be something we learn from, so that it's NOT repeated in the future.

That, at least, is my hope...my prayer. That we take this horrific event and find value in it; it's how we can honor those who were killed...for if there are lessons to be learned, and we fail to learn them...well...

Of course, that is simply my own opinion, and as I'm not in a position to actually forensically analyze him, I'm somewhat limited in knowing what we could learn. But that there *is* something we can learn, I have no doubt at all.

Best-
Herding Cats

Agree with the police procedures/responses being changed and using this as a case study. Not so much with the rest of it. He's only one person, and I don't think anything can be extrapolated and applied to other people based on his actions, at least not anything on the level scholarly research. jmo

 

[danzn16]

I think if that is his body it is very odd that it is the only thing in left from the fire one would be able to tell what it used to be.

:waitasec: I didnt see the gun but that would even be more puzzling.. Yet there the redflags are making me not know what to think.

Thank you for working with that photo.

Forensics wouldn't leave a body there and let firefighters trample around in their crime scene. It's just char IMO. And they definitely wouldn't let the media photograph it. Dorner's body was long gone and being forensically tested by daylight. They want DNA and dental confirmation this is their guy ASAP, they're not just going to let him lay there like they have all the time in the world.

 

[LinasK]

One of the misconceptions I have seen posted before is that last Thursday was "Law Enforcement Appreciation Day" where LEO's could ski all day for free (which I think would have been more of a motivation for him to go up there) however here is what the Snow Summit site says (last Wednesday and Thursday's dates were listed prior to the date having passed):

"Honor Our Heroes / Uniform Days

Law Enforcement, EMS, Firefighters & Active Military, Bear Mountain and Snow Summit would like to invite you to take advantage of Honor Our Heros/Uniform Days on the following dates: March 6 & 7, 2013; April 3 & 4, 2013. This special offer is to show our appreciation and support for your hard work. Take your valid work identification to any Bear Mountain or Snow Summit ticket window and you will receive a $38.00 lift ticket. Up to a $21 savings!"

http://www.snowsummit.com/ski/rates/discounts-specials/

Of course it could have been his motivation to go up there but it doesn't sound to me like it would have been a place crawling with LEO's.

Also, his truck couldn't have gotten him much closer to the skiing so if that was really his motivation, since he had several hours up there before his truck was discovered, he could have easily carried out his plan.

Perhaps his motivation was as simple as it is a beautiful place to die. Who knows???

eta - web address

There were also Feb. dates on there, which have passed, so they took them off the listing. His truck was on the access road directly above and between the chair lifts at Bear Mtn. and Snow Summit. Bear Mtn. is more for the Snowboarders,and Snow Summit for skiers. Both lodges at Snow Summit are packed, and tiny for the amount of skiers they get. People who weren't skiing would camp out and save whole booths for hours for their families!!! We had to eat standing.

 

[i.b.nora]

Here is a photo of the scene from earlier in the day. That basement was filled almost to the top with char and debris. From other 'process' photos I have seen today, I am pretty sure they sifted through all that ash to get as far down as they did in later photos. But, I do not think his body is actually shown in any of the photos.

burned out cabin #6

P.S.
They've added photos, so now the one I am talking about is #7 of 16.

 

[MsFacetious]

I don't know who Greta is going to interview... but it isn't two maids.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/13/16953061-tied-up-couple-key-to-ending-manhunt?lite

When Karen and Jim Reynolds arrived to tidy a rental cabin not far from a police command post, they found the alleged cop killer holed up inside.

“He said four or five times that he didn't have a problem with us, he just wanted to clear his name,” said Jim Reynolds at a press conference late Wednesday.
“He said I don't have a problem with you so I’m not going to hurt you.”

 

[shadowraiths]

I think that the LAPD, LASD, RSD/PD, SBPD/SO will all re evaluate their response processes; the tactics and procedures used will be reassessed, and tightened/fine tuned for any other similar situation (and that's NOT saying what they did was wrong...).

Police departments sometimes use real life cases to develop training scenarios for their academies. Since this case involved multi-department cooperation over a large area, I could see them developing a program to train for this sort of event, should it occur in the future.

 

[Pensfan]

Not disagreeing, but how do you figure we can learn about the human mind, based one isolated incident? Wouldn't we need a larger sample size?

There are data bases for every type of killer. Each study's findings increase in reliability as the population size (in the study) increases. CD will be added to the population of spree killers and LE killers. For example:
http://psychweb.cisat.jmu.edu/spcp/conference2010/Aamodt_Surrette.pdf

 

[bourne]

I don't know who Greta is going to interview... but it isn't two maids.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/13/16953061-tied-up-couple-key-to-ending-manhunt?lite

When Karen and Jim Reynolds arrived to tidy a rental cabin not far from a police command post, they found the alleged cop killer holed up inside.

“He said four or five times that he didn't have a problem with us, he just wanted to clear his name,” said Jim Reynolds at a press conference late Wednesday.
“He said I don't have a problem with you so I’m not going to hurt you.”

The video interview is very confusing. So the two people who were tied up were not two female maids, but a married husband and wife couple who rented the cabin?

I couldn't catch what exactly they were saying. But they're not maids. Yet they were tidying up the cabin -- for themselves because they left a mess?

 

[jjenny]

The video interview is very confusing. So the two people who were tied up were not two female maids, but a married husband and wife couple who rented the cabin?

I couldn't catch what exactly they were saying. But they're not maids. Yet they were tidying up the cabin -- for themselves because they left a mess?

Yes, apparently media made a mistake (or whoever it is said that Dorner had two maids as hostages).
"Dorner tied the husband and wife up with plastic zip locks, stuffed small towels in their mouths so they couldn't scream and covered the heads with pillow cases, they said."
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...tage-says-dorner-was-in-condo-for-days-1.html