GUILTY CA - Classic (Orson West, 3) & Cincere (Orrin West, 4), still missing, Calif. City, *Mistrial on counts 4 & 5)* 21 Dec 2020 #8

[PommyMommy]

Afternoon Testimony, Part 4
DAY TWENTY - May 10, 2023
https://twitter.com/KGETnews

Court is back in session. Napolitano remains on the stand and Timothy Hennessy, lead attorney for Trezell West, is questioning her. #WestsTrial

Napolitano said there are cases she declines. #WestsTrial

Napolitano said this is one of the few cases where her fee was accepted in a "public defender-type" arrangement. #WestsTrial

Napolitano said children can make false statements without intending to lie and Hennessy ended his questioning. She has been excused. #WestsTrial

Torres Stallings requested a brief sidebar. #WestsTrial

They're back, and the defense has no other witnesses. #WestsTrial

The defense has rested and evidence in this case has concluded. The judge said the jury will return at 2 p.m. for a few additional items/clarifications and will be read jury instructions. #WestsTrial

 

[cuffem]

Knox,
The kicker is that with all the 100 hours and over 35k in payment, the defense did not have Dr. Napolitano make a report. Nor did they get her notes on the case and turn over to prosecution.

 

[PommyMommy]

I was also surprised that was all the defense had. I can not say for sure what the jury will do but as I stated in several above posts I do not think the defense proved that improper interviews were done and that caused a false memory. IMO.

Smith made some very good points during recross of Dr. Napolitano that I pointed out in my transcribed post #484

I thought Smith did well with that cross considering what he had. He formally asked for her notes on the record and they were not provided, and he just got her Powerpoint presentation yesterday!

 

[Knox]

Knox,
The kicker is that with all the 100 hours and over 35k in payment, the defense did not have Dr. Napolitano make a report. Nor did they get her notes on the case and turn over to prosecution.

I listened to something on the way home from work on that. She also hasn't conducted a forensic interview with a child since 2006.

But she did make some good points on the interviews with the kids, that worries me.

 

[PommyMommy]

MAY 10, 2023

Defense rests in West trial, closing arguments expected next week​

After reviewing recorded interviews between Trezell and Jacqueline West's eldest son and a social worker, Dr. Susan Napolitano said she believed the child had been questioned improperly in ways that could have resulted in false memories and allegations.

[...]

In an interview on Dec. 22, 2020, the Napolitano assessed that the child had been woken up and questioned almost immediately by police. She said details that stood out to her were when officers asked the child if he knew it was wrong to kill someone or help kill someone. Napolitano said that this was a leading question, and the officer followed by asking about Orrin and Orson.

[...]

In an attempt to discredit Napolitano, Smith asked about a lawsuit that had been filed against her in a previous case for alleged bias towards her client. Napolitano confirming a suit had been filed, but that the judge dismissed it citing no bias on her part.

Smith also asked Napolitano if she knew he requested all her notes regarding this case. Napolitano said she had not been made aware of that request.

Before finishing his cross, Smith requested those notes.

The trial has concluded its evidence portion. Closing argument are expected to begin Tuesday at 9 a.m.

 

[nyvictoria]

I was busy with Stauch and Vallow trials and I’m just now getting caught up on this case. The testimony from the other children is so sad. I feel so sorry for these kids, being asked to lie and keep secrets for the adoptive parents. It sounds like life in that house was a nightmare for all of the children. Dear old mommy was the primary abuser but the dad with the stick is some weird stuff, too. Sickening!

These poor children will be living with the memories of this for the rest of their lives. Are any of them in counseling? I’m sure they all need it.

Thanks @PommyMommy and @cuffem and anyone else who posted the testimony!!

 

[cuffem]

Knox, I am not worried one bit. It was only a couple of questions in the interview that could have been asked in a better way but there was nothing that would cause a child to make up the part about abuse and seeing a child dying and dead.

Dr. Napolitano actually said to Stallings that Barton did a good job and that she had excellent training.

 

[alexanicoluca]

i worry with lack of bodies that things won’t stick right i want them to pay; i mean the “parents” that is. i hope this dr. didn’t create doubt in the juries mind(s)??? the most damning evidence is the children’s testimony, seems there isn’t much else besides Jacqueline’s tasteless missing sock-missing children analogy joke on the phone.

 

[PommyMommy]

I was busy with Stauch and Vallow trials and I’m just now getting caught up on this case. The testimony from the other children is so sad. I feel so sorry for these kids, being asked to lie and keep secrets for the adoptive parents. It sounds like life in that house was a nightmare for all of the children. Dear old mommy was the primary abuser but the dad with the stick is some weird stuff, too. Sickening!

These poor children will be living with the memories of this for the rest of their lives. Are any of them in counseling? I’m sure they all need it.

Thanks @PommyMommy and @cuffem and anyone else who posted the testimony!!

Nice to have you back!

 

[cuffem]

i worry with lack of bodies that things won’t stick right i want them to pay; i mean the “parents” that is. i hope this dr. didn’t create doubt in the juries mind(s)??? the most damning evidence is the children’s testimony, seems there isn’t much else besides Jacqueline’s tasteless missing sock-missing children analogy joke on the phone.

The prosecution did have plenty of circumstantial evidence. The security video not showing 2 children at gate or on the road.
No children footprints in yard that was all sand, Grandmothers both thinking the boys were with other grandmother,
Grandma Wanda not seeing children in van. No one seeing the children after Cal City move, The Wests keeping family and neighbors away,
The Wests not having resent photos of kids in Cal City, No Christmas gifts for the 2 boys, Security footage of the Wests out running errands never showing the boys with them. JW claiming the boys may have been taken by a made up person whom she had no contact info. Not allowing photos of the boys taken or posted to other family when requested.
The phones being scrubbed and changed. Changing location pings on phone, using private number, No diapers at the house (except one found 2 years later),Not to mention what the eldest boy told. Security footage showing TW only driving around the block to look for boys and then just wait, never knocking on neighbors doors or yelling for them. He did not look around the back fence.
The fact the heavy gate was too heavy for small boys to move. JW never going outside to look for the boys.

There was more besides the missing sock comment, the prosecution spent many days showing this.

 

[Knox]

i worry with lack of bodies that things won’t stick right i want them to pay; i mean the “parents” that is. i hope this dr. didn’t create doubt in the juries mind(s)??? the most damning evidence is the children’s testimony, seems there isn’t much else besides Jacqueline’s tasteless missing sock-missing children analogy joke on the phone.

95% of the case hinges on AW's statement

 

[nyvictoria]

JW appears to be the more dominant and manipulative one in the relationship with TW. I remember that tv interview they did and how we all immediately knew something was not right. I wonder who she got to call in the tip about the boys being seen in Texas? A blatant attempt to pin it on the bio-mom.

Have any of the LE interviews with the Wests been published? TIA!

 

[nyvictoria]

I know that we will be hearing a lot about the McMartin Case tomorrow so I am going to try and refresh my memory on it tonight. The false memories is a big part of their " not telling the truth" defense.

I can’t believe she’s actually claiming this prosecution is like McMartin! Like comparing apples and orangutans!

 

[cuffem]

I can’t believe she’s actually claiming this prosecution is like McMartin! Like comparing apples and orangutans!

Well she did not actually talk about the McMartin case itself just the improper interviewing creating false memory.
Dr. Napolitano did not say the word McMartin. Stallings had mentioned the case in questioning Barton.

 

[PommyMommy]

JW appears to be the more dominant and manipulative one in the relationship with TW. I remember that tv interview they did and how we all immediately knew something was not right. I wonder who she got to call in the tip about the boys being seen in Texas? A blatant attempt to pin it on the bio-mom.

Have any of the LE interviews with the Wests been published? TIA!

There are body-camera interviews and formal interviews but they're a bit scattered. You can probably catch up quickly in the media thread. Start at about post 349?

CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), MEDIA, MAPS & TIMELINE - NO DISCUSSION

MAR 25, 2023 The trial of Trezell and Jacqueline West: What to expect [...] Defense attorney Victor Nasser is co-counsel for Trezell West, and Jacqueline West is represented by Alekxia Torres Stallings and Fatima Rodriguez. [...] While much of what will be presented at trial over the next...

www.websleuths.com

 

[cuffem]

95% of the case hinges on AW's statement

I really do not think that much hinges on the case. Grandma Wanda's testimony surely helped the prosecution. She did not see the boys and thought they were with other grandma.
Prosecution has laid out plenty. Circumstantial but plenty, IMO.

 

[PommyMommy]

The prosecution did have plenty of circumstantial evidence. The security video not showing 2 children at gate or on the road.
No children footprints in yard that was all sand, Grandmothers both thinking the boys were with other grandmother,
Grandma Wanda not seeing children in van. No one seeing the children after Cal City move, The Wests keeping family and neighbors away,
The Wests not having resent photos of kids in Cal City, No Christmas gifts for the 2 boys, Security footage of the Wests out running errands never showing the boys with them. JW claiming the boys may have been taken by a made up person whom she had no contact info. Not allowing photos of the boys taken or posted to other family when requested.
The phones being scrubbed and changed. Changing location pings on phone, using private number, No diapers at the house (except one found 2 years later),Not to mention what the eldest boy told.

There was more besides the missing sock comment, the prosecution spent many days showing this.

BBM Since the beginning, this was what stuck out like a sore thumb. The first report not only didn't include photos, but we didn't even have their names. Then the Nixle was updated with their names and a photo of Orrin but still no photo of Orson! Who doesn't have a horde of photos of their toddlers?! MOO

Thread One: Still Missing - CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020

 

[cuffem]

BBM Since the beginning, this was what stuck out like a sore thumb. The first report not only didn't include photos, but we didn't even have their names. Then the Nixle was updated with their names and a photo of Orrin but still no photo of Orson! Who doesn't have a horde of photos of their toddlers?! MOO

Thread One: Still Missing - CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020

She also could not remember what size shoes they wore or what size diaper. 2 boys different ages actually wore same size clothes. I believe that is only because JW did not bother with buying different sizes and I bet one wore a size that was either too big or too small.Could have been from weight lose also.
There was 2 photos we did see that they looked ill and depressed (not the first original poster pics)

 

[cuffem]

So far I do not see CPS or LE as improper interviewing, bias interviewing. Although Barton and Castillo did discuss their personal opinion on the case, I do not see it as affecting the interview.IMO. This is not the McMartin Case IMO.

I will try later to make a list of technical and clinical terms.

I tried to look up some of the technical terms but had trouble getting the right definitions on most but since the doctors testimony was not much to ponder I decided just to list the terms. You can research them if you like.
I did write out some of the definitions in todays transcription of Dr. Napolitano's questioning.

Terms on Forensic Interviews

Recall Memory
Recognition Memory
Reconstruction
Interview phases
Priming
Alternative Hypothesis
Suggestibility
Window of Tolerance
Trauma Response
False Memories

 

[cuffem]

List of calls
Dec 5 2020
TW to JW at 12:44 for 130 seconds
TW to JW at 1:23 for 74 seconds same tower
JW to Maria at 1:31pm
TW to JW at 1: 35pm for 52 seconds. Different towers
Number associated with Maria to owner not listed number
TW to JW at 2:07 for 22 seconds, two different towers
TW to JW no duration same tower
Maria to JW at 2:41 and 3:03 pm
TW to JW for 27 sec. same tower
TW makes call from Cal City at 5:15pm
TW receives a call 3 min. later
Maria calls an 877 # at 8:07pm
TW and JW communicated numerous times day later between 12pm and 3:30 with TW's phone in Cal City

Nothing ever came of the cell phone tower pings between JW and TW and JW's mom.
What was the point of this?