CA - Court upholds Menendez brothers' convictions

[Chimera]

There are some crimes that deserve the ultimate punishment, like the abuse and murder of children.
There are other crimes that deserve locking away for good.
Both criminals in each type of case may have been abused as kids.
For any children being harmed in this way I feel utmost pity for, but when and if they're of age --and decide to murder someone, they still need to face justice.

Many have suffered abuse when they were minors, and yet have been able later as adults to lead a good, productive, and non-criminal life.
Just fearful of the floodgates being opened and other criminals who claim abuse --whether true or unfounded-- will now be able to be released, even those who have killed family members.
Imo, it's a valid concern.

That's if the Menendez brothers walk.... and if so, will it set a precedent for others doing life for murder (to be able to get out of prison) if they can get a family member or an ex-girlfriend, to testify about their mistreatment as a child ?
Imo.

 

[Noirdame79]

Here's the deal, the guns and ammunition were purchased two days before the murders. They were bought with a fake ID by Lyle who was plenty old enough to buy his own guns. This, to me, speaks of premeditation and premeditation is murder. Keep them locked up as sentenced.

They stated they bought the guns for protection, and ultimately that cannot be proven or disproven. Their parents owned shotguns as well. They did not use a fake ID; Lyle did not have a valid California driver's licence and Erik's was expired. They used the ID of Lyle's former roommate, Donovan Goodreau, after he accidentally left it behind when he was kicked out of Lyle's dorm at Princeton. Using that ID was not smart because it could easily have been traced back to Lyle. It shows that they were not thinking clearly.

 

[Salah11]

They stated they bought the guns for protection, and ultimately that cannot be proven or disproven. Their parents owned shotguns as well. They did not use a fake ID; Lyle did not have a valid California driver's licence and Erik's was expired. They used the ID of Lyle's former roommate, Donovan Goodreau, after he accidentally left it behind when he was kicked out of Lyle's dorm at Princeton. Using that ID was not smart because it could easily have been traced back to Lyle. It shows that they were not thinking clearly.

Why does it matter if the parent owned guns?

It’s completely irrelevant as they owned them legally and didn’t brutally shoot their sons with them.

 

[MrsWatson]

They stated they bought the guns for protection, and ultimately that cannot be proven or disproven. Their parents owned shotguns as well. They did not use a fake ID; Lyle did not have a valid California driver's licence and Erik's was expired. They used the ID of Lyle's former roommate, Donovan Goodreau, after he accidentally left it behind when he was kicked out of Lyle's dorm at Princeton. Using that ID was not smart because it could easily have been traced back to Lyle. It shows that they were not thinking clearly.

How did they get to the gun store? No valid licenses, so driving for either would be a crime. Using an ID that was stolen is a crime, esp to purchase a weapon. Why didn't they mail the ID back to the roommate or turn it into the university? Why would they keep it? What's the innocent explanation for that?


They committed crimes in planning to commit murder. More premeditation.

moo

 

[Noirdame79]

Why does it matter if the parent owned guns?

It’s completely irrelevant as they owned them legally and didn’t brutally shoot their sons with them.

You don't think it's relevant that they might have feared that their parents might shoot them?

 

[Noirdame79]

How did they get to the gun store? No valid licenses, so driving for either would be a crime. Using an ID that was stolen is a crime, esp to purchase a weapon. Why didn't they mail the ID back to the roommate or turn it into the university? Why would they keep it? What's the innocent explanation for that?


They committed crimes in planning to commit murder. More premeditation.

moo

<modsnip: rude> Buying guns does not necessarily mean premeditation. They stated they bought the guns for protection. Lyle didn't know where his roommate went; they were not in touch after he left. He didn't realize until later that the ID had been left behind (this happened in June of 1989). They didn't part on good terms. The ID wasn't stolen, it was left behind by accident; the roommate himself testified to this.

 

[MrsWatson]

<modsnip: rude> Buying guns does not necessarily mean premeditation. They stated they bought the guns for protection. Lyle didn't know where his roommate went; they were not in touch after he left. He didn't realize until later that the ID had been left behind (this happened in June of 1989). They didn't part on good terms. The ID wasn't stolen, it was left behind by accident; the roommate himself testified to this.

I watched the trial when it was going on. What did they need protection from, if that is indeed true. They lie. They have lied. The continue to lie, imo. They were adults and could have broken ties with their parents. Lyle could have easily turned over the ID to the university, if he wasn't in touch with the former roommate. Legally, no it wasn't stolen. But why did they keep it? If Lyle was too lazy to walk down to the Admin building and turn it in, he could have cut it up and thrown it away. Instead, he hung unto it. Why? Surely not sentimental reasons, since they didn't part on good terms.

How did they get to the gun store? Neither had a valid driver's license. Why didn't they have driver's licenses? If it expires, you get it renewed ASAP.

IMO, those are examples of the brothers believing laws and rules don't apply to them.

 

[MrsWatson]

You don't think it's relevant that they might have feared that their parents might shoot them?

Then why go to the house?

 

[Noirdame79]

I watched the trial when it was going on. What did they need protection from, if that is indeed true. They lie. They have lied. The continue to lie, imo. They were adults and could have broken ties with their parents. Lyle could have easily turned over the ID to the university, if he wasn't in touch with the former roommate. Legally, no it wasn't stolen. But why did they keep it? If Lyle was too lazy to walk down to the Admin building and turn it in, he could have cut it up and thrown it away. Instead, he hung unto it. Why? Surely not sentimental reasons, since they didn't part on good terms.

How did they get to the gun store? Neither had a valid driver's license. Why didn't they have driver's licenses? If it expires, you get it renewed ASAP.

IMO, those are examples of the brothers believing laws and rules don't apply to them.

Is being a sexual predator better?

Moreover, the roommate was not actually a Princeton student, and was freeloading off of Lyle. When Jose found out, he demanded that Lyle throw him out. This was all brought out during the first trial.

 

[Noirdame79]

Then why go to the house?

Where could they have gone? Their father was wealthy and powerful, and had the resources to track them down if they left. Their relatives didn't live close by (they all lived in other states, the relatives were afraid of the parents as well) and it's unlikely that the police would have believed them. People who have been abused in childhood think different, due to how trauma re-wires the brain.

 

[MrsWatson]

Where could they have gone? Their father was wealthy and powerful, and had the resources to track them down if they left. Their relatives didn't live close by (they all lived in other states, the relatives were afraid of the parents as well) and it's unlikely that the police would have believed them. People who have been abused in childhood think different, due to how trauma re-wires the brain.

There is no way to know if the police would have belived them or not, since they never tried. And I find it highly unlikely that neither one of these young men had a friend who's couch they could have crashed on while they were getting on their feet financially? A cheap motel? The YMCA? We won't know, since they never tried.

As far as people who have been SA'd in childhood, I was. I did not go on to murder my abuser.

 

[MrsWatson]

Is being a sexual predator better?

Moreover, the roommate was not actually a Princeton student, and was freeloading off of Lyle. When Jose found out, he demanded that Lyle throw him out. This was all brought out during the first trial.

None of that explains why Lyle kept the ID.

 

[Gigiky]

There is no way to know if the police would have belived them or not, since they never tried. And I find it highly unlikely that neither one of these young men had a friend who's couch they could have crashed on while they were getting on their feet financially? A cheap motel? The YMCA? We won't know, since they never tried.

As far as people who have been SA'd in childhood, I was. I did not go on to murder my abuser.

I to am a SA survivor. And I didn't murder my abuser either. It was a family member and the way it was dealt with was to banish this person from our family. I believe it was the way things of this nature was handled years ago. It did nothing to help me. And so as a child I some how blocked it out of my memory until way later in my life. And then I started my family and had my children. That's when the monster of remembering reared it's ugly head. I lived in fear that it could happen to my children for no reason other than it happened to me. I eventually sought out therapy and it was a long road to get to a place of some kind of peace of mind. But the rage I felt was and to some degree still feel at times to this day is so overwhelmingly horrific. This was a one time incident.
I can't imagine a child suffering on going SA for most of their young life. It was rage!
It was what those parents did to those boys that produced the end result. And no I don't condone murder, but I do think they have spent enough time in he!! and in jail.
And not allowing any of this to be part of their trial was a miscarriage of justice.

 

[Catmommy]

Some people are so locked in their "belief" in what happened and why that they are unable to process the facts. The Menendez brothers bought guns with someone else's ID without their permission. They literally snuck up on the parents they were "afraid" of, who were sitting unarmed in their own house, and shot them many many times with shotguns. There wasn't an active altercation or immediate threat that made the boys feel in fear for their lives at that precise moment. They had thought about it and made a plan. That is premeditation. Afterwards, they picked up the shell casings and tried to establish an alibi that actually was unsuccessful only due to circumstances and their botched execution of the timeline. These were not poor little boys who had no other recourse and it's extremely naive to treat them as such in my opinion only. The jury got it right.

 

[Noirdame79]

None of that explains why Lyle kept the ID.

I stated before that Lyle did not know where the roommate had gone. They didn't keep in touch and they parted on bad terms

 

[Noirdame79]

Some people are so locked in their "belief" in what happened and why that they are unable to process the facts. The Menendez brothers bought guns with someone else's ID without their permission. They literally snuck up on the parents they were "afraid" of, who were sitting unarmed in their own house, and shot them many many times with shotguns. There wasn't an active altercation or immediate threat that made the boys feel in fear for their lives at that precise moment. They had thought about it and made a plan. That is premeditation. Afterwards, they picked up the shell casings and tried to establish an alibi that actually was unsuccessful only due to circumstances and their botched execution of the timeline. These were not poor little boys who had no other recourse and it's extremely naive to treat them as such in my opinion only. The jury got it right

The jurors in the second trial did not see all the evidence. The majority of the jurors in the first trial voted for a lesser charge.

 

[Salah11]

Where could they have gone? Their father was wealthy and powerful, and had the resources to track them down if they left. Their relatives didn't live close by (they all lived in other states, the relatives were afraid of the parents as well) and it's unlikely that the police would have believed them. People who have been abused in childhood think different, due to how trauma re-wires the brain.

Sorry this was the 80’s they were not being tracked down. That’s just completely farcical and just another ridiculous excuse to try and excuse blame.

Moo

 

[MrsWatson]

I stated before that Lyle did not know where the roommate had gone. They didn't keep in touch and they parted on bad terms

That does not explain why he kept it. If he wanted no contact and didn't know where the roommate went, why didn't he just cut up the ID, or return it to the issuer? Why did he keep it?

 

[Noirdame79]

That does not explain why he kept it. If he wanted no contact and didn't know where the roommate went, why didn't he just cut up the ID, or return it to the issuer? Why did he keep it?

Who knows why. This was months before. Erik did have a fake ID (which his mother made for him, so he could go to bars and be served alcohol) that he could have used but he didn't.

 

[Noirdame79]

Sorry this was the 80’s they were not being tracked down. That’s just completely farcical and just another ridiculous excuse to try and excuse blame.

Moo

Ever heard of paper trails (credit cards)? Plus their father could easily pay private investigators to find them.