CA - Elizabeth Holmes (Theranos) Wire Fraud Thread *Guilty* #2

[LinasK]

Here's what I don't get.
Blood testing is a well-established industry. Some large doctor's practices, oncology for example, draw blood, test it on site and have the Complete Blood Count and other results ready for the doctor to review before seeing the patient. Lead time, in the past for me 20 years ago as a patient, was about 30 minutes.

People in the blood-testing industry would know immediately the limitations of the Theranos/Edison concept.
Yes, astoundingly processing can take place using very small devices (cell phone!) and some blood tests can be performed almost instantly with very little blood.
But scientists and technicians would know that a few drops of blood would be insufficient for some tests to be performed accurately. It just couldn't work, yet investors were THROWING staggering amounts of money at Elizabeth Holmes.
How were cautious and expert voices silenced? People WITHIN Theranos would have known the technology wasn't working and couldn't work. I guess that ironclad NDAs and threats of legal action kept people silent.

The workers did know and were silenced or quit. One scientist committed suicide because of his guilt about it.

 

[Howl]

I'm thinking also of the blood testing industry in general who would know that the Theranos Edison concept just couldn't work for some tests.

 

[ch_13]

Here's what I don't get.
Blood testing is a well-established industry. Some large doctor's practices, oncology for example, draw blood, test it on site and have the Complete Blood Count and other results ready for the doctor to review before seeing the patient. Lead time, in the past for me 20 years ago as a patient, was about 30 minutes.

People in the blood-testing industry would know immediately the limitations of the Theranos/Edison concept.
Yes, astoundingly processing can take place using very small devices (cell phone!) and some blood tests can be performed almost instantly with very little blood.
But scientists and technicians would know that a few drops of blood would be insufficient for some tests to be performed accurately. It just couldn't work, yet investors were THROWING staggering amounts of money at Elizabeth Holmes.
How were cautious and expert voices silenced? People WITHIN Theranos would have known the technology wasn't working and couldn't work. I guess that ironclad NDAs and threats of legal action kept people silent.

By and large, I think the professionals did know. There are a lot of venture capitalists who work in biotech, but none invested in Theranos. There were no MDs or PhDs who specialize in this area of research on her board.

The board was mostly retired government officials or business people from other industries. For the most part her investors were wealthy families who heard about Theranos through their connections. I don't know why these investors didn't do their due diligence. These folks have the money and power to hire anyone at the Mayo Clinic or Johns Hopkins to check out the Theranos device. But from what we learned at the trial, apparently none of them did that. (Or perhaps some did, and those folks never invested in the first place.)

The thing is, an expert in this field has no real incentive to go out and shout that Theranos is a fraud. And they're probably not paying that much attention anyways. Theranos wasn't publishing papers in peer-reviewed journals. The expert is probably heads down in their own research and reading the relevant medical journals, not checking out random articles from Forbes or The New Yorker.

When the story broke, I remember finding an old thread in a forum for medical students that was questioning Theranos' tech. The thread had been running for years, and people were wondering how some of these tests could be done with a finger prick instead of a blood draw. But no one really knew and all the Theranos research was covered by NDAs and not generally available, so the thread was basically just pages of pages of people saying "This seems implausible, but maybe their scientists have made a breakthrough."


Edit -
Here's the thread - theranos
It's not quite as I remember it, but students were raising questions about Theranos nearly two years before Carreyrou's WSJ article.

 

[arielilane]

Here's what I don't get.
Blood testing is a well-established industry. Some large doctor's practices, oncology for example, draw blood, test it on site and have the Complete Blood Count and other results ready for the doctor to review before seeing the patient. Lead time, in the past for me 20 years ago as a patient, was about 30 minutes.

People in the blood-testing industry would know immediately the limitations of the Theranos/Edison concept.
Yes, astoundingly processing can take place using very small devices (cell phone!) and some blood tests can be performed almost instantly with very little blood.
But scientists and technicians would know that a few drops of blood would be insufficient for some tests to be performed accurately. It just couldn't work, yet investors were THROWING staggering amounts of money at Elizabeth Holmes.
How were cautious and expert voices silenced? People WITHIN Theranos would have known the technology wasn't working and couldn't work. I guess that ironclad NDAs and threats of legal action kept people silent.

100%. Thank you for your post. Very meaningful. Not only the oncologist knows the patients lab results prior to seeing the patient, but the patient also can know their own lab results (before the oncologist arrives) simply by logging into a site. It's pretty amazing!

Agree, again, people won't talk, are afraid to talk, loss of job, etc. Perhaps investors were sold on the low cost fraction of the price of existing blood-testing technology.

However, the old saying goes, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

All moo

 

[mickey2942]

I think that EH and Balwani were/are experts at manipulation. Sort of like "The Emperor's New Clothes", if you couldn't see how awesome they were, you were too stupid. They kept everything very vague and secretive for "proprietary" reasons, of course.

And anyone who asked too many questions was shamed into just not "understanding" the absolute brilliance of EH and Theranos. Of course, you were either invited into the exclusive club of investors or you wanted to be in on the action for the newest company, guaranteed to be instant wealth.

Quite brilliant actually.

 

[Via Marple]

I think that EH and Balwani were/are experts at manipulation. Sort of like "The Emperor's New Clothes", if you couldn't see how awesome they were, you were too stupid. They kept everything very vague and secretive for "proprietary" reasons, of course.

And anyone who asked too many questions was shamed into just not "understanding" the absolute brilliance of EH and Theranos. Of course, you were either invited into the exclusive club of investors or you wanted to be in on the action for the newest company, guaranteed to be instant wealth.

Quite brilliant actually.

That's the definition of a con job. The bigger it gets, the more people getting impacted, the longer they should go to jail for. IMO

Not that I think any length of rehabilitation can change them. But at least they will have to think twice, when they get out, not to try any con like that again.

 

[Herat]

100%. Thank you for your post. Very meaningful. Not only the oncologist knows the patients lab results prior to seeing the patient, but the patient also can know their own lab results (before the oncologist arrives) simply by logging into a site. It's pretty amazing!

Agree, again, people won't talk, are afraid to talk, loss of job, etc. Perhaps investors were sold on the low cost fraction of the price of existing blood-testing technology.

However, the old saying goes, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

All moo

The Theranos model was essentially microsampling. That is instead of taking a 10 ml tube of blood drawn from a free-flowing vein, take a sample 1/100th of that size via fingerstick. Then dilute it in the analysis and extrapolate the results from the hyperdilute specimen.

This is not a new concept at all. The problem is that the statistical error is huge in a tiny sample and the draw conditions make one drop of a fingerstick not the same as one drop of venous drawn blood due to dilution by tissue juices from the tiny fingerstick, squeezing or heating the finger. Many scientists have worked on microsampling and hyperdilution for a long time due to the obvious benefits in being able to use a tiny sample.

She could get away with it for some analytes that are quite stable, but not for all on a standard chemistry panel or complete blood count.

And hyperdilution just magnifies any error in the sample that is there.

It's surprising that her very prestigious board of directors and technical advisors were just figureheads and had no practical experience in clinical laboratory practice. Nor did they require her laboratories to comply with the current laboratory licensing bodies and established federal regulations ( CLIA, CAP, JCHO, AACC).

It's also a sign of utter greed that her board was largely chosen from retired military and prestigious legislators who were very willing to put her instruments out in the field for the US Armed forces, without assuring they actually produced valid results. Again, their greed was showing.

She was a complete fraud, a liar, and when confronted by experts in laboratory medicine, sought to subvert established regulations and policies that were in place for accuracy of results and the safety of patients and the physicians who treat them.

 

[worm]

One thing is for sure, the woman will be on the Mt Rushmore for spinning lies into gold. She was on CNBC once and gave a textbook explanation about drawing blood and made it sound like a medical breakthrough of the century.

 

[Seattle1]

One thing is for sure, the woman will be on the Mt Rushmore for spinning lies into gold. She was on CNBC once and gave a textbook explanation about drawing blood and made it sound like a medical breakthrough of the century.

EH shot herself in both her feet by sticking to the "finger stick prick." She limited her marketing spill to "one drop" method and had no plan B.

Competitors agreed EH clearly had vision: Beginning around 2015 - Genalyte introduced their own version of the"Edison" ("Merlin") and achieved accurate results for a comprehensive test menu when using appropriate fluid amount.

Fast forward to today and Genalyte has perfected their use of the "Maverick" to use fingerstick whole blood for Immunoassay Analyzer and/or Multiplex specialty panels.

“Like Theranos, but it works”–health startup Genalyte proves its worth.

Move Data, not Blood - 30 Minutes Results - Onsite Lab Solution

For the rest of her life, ER will read ..."Like Theranos, but it works."

I don't think jurors struggled to see how greed and lack of ethics overruled her life. And now it's time for EH to pay her debt to society. MOO

 

[mickey2942]

That's the definition of a con job. The bigger it gets, the more people getting impacted, the longer they should go to jail for. IMO

Not that I think any length of rehabilitation can change them. But at least they will have to think twice, when they get out, not to try any con like that again.

Criminals never change. The mindset is always there, to scam. Even something as stupid as switching a price tag at a store, so they "scam" a few bucks. Scamming is hard wired, for the thrill. And lying is a game. They lie about small, things, just to do it.

EH is going to prison, that doesn't mean that she feels any remorse, or will actually change.

 

[worm]

EH shot herself in both her feet by sticking to the "finger stick prick." She limited her marketing spill to "one drop" method and had no plan B.

Competitors agreed EH clearly had vision: Beginning around 2015 - Genalyte introduced their own version of the"Edison" ("Merlin") and achieved accurate results for a comprehensive test menu when using appropriate fluid amount.

Fast forward to today and Genalyte has perfected their use of the "Maverick" to use fingerstick whole blood for Immunoassay Analyzer and/or Multiplex specialty panels.

“Like Theranos, but it works”–health startup Genalyte proves its worth.

Move Data, not Blood - 30 Minutes Results - Onsite Lab Solution

For the rest of her life, ER will read ..."Like Theranos, but it works."

I don't think jurors struggled to see how greed and lack of ethics overruled her life. And now it's time for EH to pay her debt to society. MOO

I’m sure I’m not the only confessed coward that hears “less needles” as music to their ears and I’d bet that it helped to sell shares too.

 

[Howl]

Not only the oncologist knows the patients lab results prior to seeing the patient, but the patient also can know their own lab results (before the oncologist arrives) simply by logging into a site. It's pretty amazing!

My experience preceded patient portals and checking lab results online by about 20 years! It's amazing the patient can see almost instant results now.

My experience was around 2000 Whatever machine that was used to analyze the blood was about the size of a closet.

Thanks all for the many thoughtful and informative responses. Collective knowledge is indeed a wondrous thing!

EH had several advantages: huge media adulation, youth, nice looks, big blue eyes, so SINCERE. Nobody imagined she was lying right to their faces.

One of the saddest parts of this entire saga of fraud and corruption was Tyler Schultz trying to convince his grandfather, George Schultz, that Theranos was a fraud. George Schultz was apparently besotted by EH, and EH did everything to encourage that. According to this article in The Guardian from January 2023, it was George Schultz who helped EH form her board.
Ex-secretary of state George Shultz was besotted by Theranos fraudster Holmes, book says He was either ‘corrupt’, ‘in love’ or had ‘completely lost’ his mental edge, says grandson who blew whistle on Holmes’s scheme
The book referenced in the title of the article is a recently released biography of George Schultz.

From the book:
Taubman writes: “Instead of hugging his grandson and disowning Holmes, Shultz equivocated. He tried unsuccessfully to mediate between Tyler and Holmes.”

When that effort failed, Shultz refused to cut ties with the businesswoman. He told Tyler: “I’m over 90 years old. I’ve seen a lot in my time, I’ve been right almost every time and I know I’m right about this.”

Tyler felt betrayed. In a 2020 podcast, Thicker Than Water, he imagined three reasons why his grandfather sided with Holmes.

“One is that you were corrupt and have invested so much money in Theranos that you were willing to make ethical compromises in order to see return on your investment.

The second is that you are in love with Elizabeth. “So no matter how many times she lies to you, no matter how many patients she injures and no matter how badly she harms your family, you will put her above everything else.

The last possibility is that you have completely lost your mental edge and despite an abundance of data showing that she was a criminal, you somehow are incapable of connecting these very, very big dots.”

George Schultz was in his 90s when this was going on.

 

[mickey2942]

People who scam the elderly are the worst INMO. Absolutely no morals. Taking advantage of people who are gullible and trusting.

There is no rehabilitation from this type of amoral behavior.

 

[Herat]

My experience preceded patient portals and checking lab results online by about 20 years! It's amazing the patient can see almost instant results now.

My experience was around 2000 Whatever machine that was used to analyze the blood was about the size of a closet.

Thanks all for the many thoughtful and informative responses. Collective knowledge is indeed a wondrous thing!

EH had several advantages: huge media adulation, youth, nice looks, big blue eyes, so SINCERE. Nobody imagined she was lying right to their faces.

One of the saddest parts of this entire saga of fraud and corruption was Tyler Schultz trying to convince his grandfather, George Schultz, that Theranos was a fraud. George Schultz was apparently besotted by EH, and EH did everything to encourage that. According to this article in The Guardian from January 2023, it was George Schultz who helped EH form her board.
Ex-secretary of state George Shultz was besotted by Theranos fraudster Holmes, book says He was either ‘corrupt’, ‘in love’ or had ‘completely lost’ his mental edge, says grandson who blew whistle on Holmes’s scheme
The book referenced in the title of the article is a recently released biography of George Schultz.

From the book:
Taubman writes: “Instead of hugging his grandson and disowning Holmes, Shultz equivocated. He tried unsuccessfully to mediate between Tyler and Holmes.”

When that effort failed, Shultz refused to cut ties with the businesswoman. He told Tyler: “I’m over 90 years old. I’ve seen a lot in my time, I’ve been right almost every time and I know I’m right about this.”

Tyler felt betrayed. In a 2020 podcast, Thicker Than Water, he imagined three reasons why his grandfather sided with Holmes.

“One is that you were corrupt and have invested so much money in Theranos that you were willing to make ethical compromises in order to see return on your investment.

The second is that you are in love with Elizabeth. “So no matter how many times she lies to you, no matter how many patients she injures and no matter how badly she harms your family, you will put her above everything else.

The last possibility is that you have completely lost your mental edge and despite an abundance of data showing that she was a criminal, you somehow are incapable of connecting these very, very big dots.”

George Schultz was in his 90s when this was going on.

Yes, Tyler Schultz worked as a Medical Technologist in the Theranos lab. He has first-person professional experience with the whole lab process there.

 

[Herat]

My experience preceded patient portals and checking lab results online by about 20 years! It's amazing the patient can see almost instant results now.

My experience was around 2000 Whatever machine that was used to analyze the blood was about the size of a closet.

Thanks all for the many thoughtful and informative responses. Collective knowledge is indeed a wondrous thing!

EH had several advantages: huge media adulation, youth, nice looks, big blue eyes, so SINCERE. Nobody imagined she was lying right to their faces.

One of the saddest parts of this entire saga of fraud and corruption was Tyler Schultz trying to convince his grandfather, George Schultz, that Theranos was a fraud. George Schultz was apparently besotted by EH, and EH did everything to encourage that. According to this article in The Guardian from January 2023, it was George Schultz who helped EH form her board.
Ex-secretary of state George Shultz was besotted by Theranos fraudster Holmes, book says He was either ‘corrupt’, ‘in love’ or had ‘completely lost’ his mental edge, says grandson who blew whistle on Holmes’s scheme
The book referenced in the title of the article is a recently released biography of George Schultz.

From the book:
Taubman writes: “Instead of hugging his grandson and disowning Holmes, Shultz equivocated. He tried unsuccessfully to mediate between Tyler and Holmes.”

When that effort failed, Shultz refused to cut ties with the businesswoman. He told Tyler: “I’m over 90 years old. I’ve seen a lot in my time, I’ve been right almost every time and I know I’m right about this.”

Tyler felt betrayed. In a 2020 podcast, Thicker Than Water, he imagined three reasons why his grandfather sided with Holmes.

“One is that you were corrupt and have invested so much money in Theranos that you were willing to make ethical compromises in order to see return on your investment.

The second is that you are in love with Elizabeth. “So no matter how many times she lies to you, no matter how many patients she injures and no matter how badly she harms your family, you will put her above everything else.

The last possibility is that you have completely lost your mental edge and despite an abundance of data showing that she was a criminal, you somehow are incapable of connecting these very, very big dots.”

George Schultz was in his 90s when this was going on.

Holmes chose her Board of Directors very carefully. She invited very prestigious names from the military and politics, names:

• Henry Kissinger (former United States Secretary of State);
• Jim Mattis (retired Marine Corps four-star general);
• George Shultz (former United States Secretary of State);
• Richard Kovacevich (former CEO of Wells Fargo);
• William Perry (former United States Secretary of Defense); and
• William Foege MD (former director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)

Her strategy was very obvious. She was going to sell the Theranos technology and device to the US military and reap the benefit of billions of lab tests done in the field in service areas where there was not a ready hospital with a laboratory. Big names like Kissinger, Mattis, Shulz, and Perry were absolute pushovers in realizing how big this would get. Dr. Foege, former CDC Director was an epidemiologist by training and experience and was a plausible responsible scientific adviser, but he was not at all experienced or qualified in laboratory medicine to understand the complexities and responsible restraints of the testing she was promoting.

She was openly promoting her junk testing on US military personnel, bypassing safety regulations, because of the greed of her board and her seductive selling method with these old men.

Things started to unravel when she, knowingly, sought to avoid being required to fulfill the methodological and statistical validation of her testing that is required by current laboratory rules and regulations of the Federal Government, by saying that her technology didn't use conventional laboratories (which was a bold-faced lie already). The Feds then determined that she needed to license her technology under the Medical Equipment licensing rules. She obfuscated and openly lied about the process. Independent scientists asked for the techinical information and she claimed it was protected business information, which made everyone realize something was stinking badly about this process.

When she toured big wigs through her laboratory, they were shown some instruments then a complex "washing room" where equipment and tubing was ostensibly being cleaned. It was fake. There is very little washing required in any commercial or hospital laboratory today as the systems are far too complex for that. Behind the partitions they didn't get to see were regular standard laboratory multiplex analyzers that were in use in hospitals and independent labs all over, because she couldn't get the Edison machines to work properly. There is very little washing required in any commercial or hospital laboratory today.

She was a scheming fake since day one and she still is.

 

[DrQ]

IMHO After all she has done to swindle people and her current judicial standing with the court, it angers me that she is still by all accounts "free".

 

[ch_13]

She was openly promoting her junk testing on US military personnel, bypassing safety regulations, because of the greed of her board and her seductive selling method with these old men.

Credit is due to the relatively low-level military and civilian medical officials. Despite the pressure put on them by the brass decrying 'red tape', they stood their ground and insisted that all rules and regulations be followed and Theranos equipment be treated just like any other procurement, no matter who was pushing it.

The whole claim that these devices were going to save lives on the battlefield was ridiculous, anyways. The medic treating an injured soldier in a helicopter hardly needs to know their cholesterol and glucose levels.

 

[Herat]

Credit is due to the relatively low-level military and civilian medical officials. Despite the pressure put on them by the brass decrying 'red tape', they stood their ground and insisted that all rules and regulations be followed and Theranos equipment be treated just like any other procurement, no matter who was pushing it.

The whole claim that these devices were going to save lives on the battlefield was ridiculous, anyways. The medic treating an injured soldier in a helicopter hardly needs to know their cholesterol and glucose levels.

And, in emergency situations, a blood sample taken from a fingerstick is not an accurate way to determine the levels of analytes such as glucose, potassium, oxygen, CO2, WBC, RBC, platelet count etc that are being delivered to the body critical organs: brain, heart, lungs, kidneys.

Local circulation with shock, blood loss, hypo or hyperthermia will vary in the most peripheral areas and are well-known to give very misleading results.

You really do need the venous (usually in the arm) blood draw.

Yes, kudos to governmental Federal regulators who would not let slippery Holmes bypass the standard review of documents and statistical analysis to see if this new gadget really worked.

 

[mickey2942]

The workers did know and were silenced or quit. One scientist committed suicide because of his guilt about it.

I wonder how many people lost their jobs because of Theranos and EH's carnival act? Wouldn't surprise me if there were quite a few people. And she has the audacity to pretend she is a suburban Mom, who volunteers her time, and spends her days going barefoot around her in her beach cottage. Insert <eye roll>.

Her pregnancy and babies, along with her "image remake" are just another con job, this time, to avoid prison.

Meet the 'new' Elizabeth Holmes: She's ditched the turtlenecks, abandoned the weird voice, and wants you to call her Liz

New identity or not, the Theranos founder was convicted of fraud charges. She's trying to delay the start of her 11-year prison sentence.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[LaborDayRN]

I think that EH and Balwani were/are experts at manipulation. Sort of like "The Emperor's New Clothes", if you couldn't see how awesome they were, you were too stupid. They kept everything very vague and secretive for "proprietary" reasons, of course.

And anyone who asked too many questions was shamed into just not "understanding" the absolute brilliance of EH and Theranos. Of course, you were either invited into the exclusive club of investors or you wanted to be in on the action for the newest company, guaranteed to be instant wealth.

Quite brilliant actually.

I LOVE the comparison to "The Emperor's New Clothes". Brilliant!