CA - Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 in Isla Vista, Near UC Santa Barbara, #2

[katydid23]

In his manifesto it says he will stab his roommates while they are sleeping and behead them.

But would 3 20 yr old college students be asleep at 9 pm on a Friday night?

 

[Whiteorchids]

But would 3 20 yr old college students be asleep at 9 pm on a Friday night?

Drunk, passed out, resting? Maybe ER took control with a gun. I don't know my son goes to UCI in CA is a student and works. Yes, he sleeps anytime he can get it.

 

[CARIIS]

The officers involved in the shoot outs are on admin leave. The LE folks who responded a month earlier are fine. They followed the law, there was nothing threatening on line - all those posts were from a collage kid who wanted to get laid - nothing more .

Was he dark, well obviously a month later he took his life and others, but on April 30 - coherent, collage kid having dating issues,

There are millions of depressed unhappy posters on you tube ! That is not invol comm criteria - is it sad yes, does it meet the law standards to take someone againist their will for eval - not accoriding to law.

In their context only there is nothing (all but the last video) which makes all the other ones more sinister - is there anything threatening on any of the videos prior to the final night?

 

[Bernina]

But if his mom and or Therapist would have given officers a quick rundown of his history and that mom and dad thought he could be suicidal they would have had reasonable cause to proceed further. The long time family friend said the parents thought he was capable of killing himself but not others.

No one said he had access to guns. LE was looking for features in ER that would indicate suicidal propensity.

Manifesto, pg. 134:

 

[Bernina]

But would 3 20 yr old college students be asleep at 9 pm on a Friday night?

It has not been posted via MSM WHEN they died. There is a possibility they were murdered earlier that day, ie, early morning.

 

[Bernina]

The officers involved in the shoot outs are on admin leave. The LE folks who responded a month earlier are fine. They followed the law, there was nothing threatening on line - all those posts were from a collage kid who wanted to get laid - nothing more .

Was he dark, well obviously a month later he took his life and others, but on April 30 - coherent, collage kid having dating issues,

There are millions of depressed unhappy posters on you tube ! That is not invol comm criteria - is it sad yes, does it meet the law standards to take someone againist their will for eval - not accoriding to law.

In their context only there is nothing (all but the last video) which makes all the other ones more sinister - is there anything threatening on any of the videos prior to the final night?

BBM: They are the administrative LEAD. That was an error by the MSM reporter and was corrected..........several pages back in this thread

 

[Bernina]

Link to ER videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/ElliotRodger
Youtube removed his last one.

Last video and transcript:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/elliot-rodger-retribution-santa-barbara-shooter-sick-words-article-1.1804761

 

[Whiteorchids]

It has not been posted via MSM WHEN they died. There is a possibility they were murdered earlier that day, ie, early morning.

Good point. I never thought of that. I wonder if they were beheaded. I hope not that would be even worse news for the families.

Were the roommates at home on April 30th when police did welfare check on ER?

 

[Quester]

When [JC, father of murdered GC] visited his son's dormitory this week to collect his personal belongings, he found his son's laptop on, a half-completed computer project still on the screen. His son's cell phone was still plugged in, charging. It was as if life had simply been suspended, he added.

... [GC] lived in a campus dorm ...

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_25863872/mourners-at-candlelight-vigil-remember-san-jose-isla
​

* * *

Ok - this is about GC, the young man who did not live in ER's apartment but was found dead in ER's apartment.

Now why would the young man have left his phone plugged in and charging in his on-campus dorm to go to the off-campus apartment of ER & his two roommates? Was he lured there as ER said in his manifesto he would do?

Why didn't GC take his phone? Aren't cell phones practically glued to the hands of that generation?

 

[Whiteorchids]

When [JC, father of murdered GC] visited his son's dormitory this week to collect his personal belongings, he found his son's laptop on, a half-completed computer project still on the screen. His son's cell phone was still plugged in, charging. It was as if life had simply been suspended, he added.

... [GC] lived in a campus dorm ...

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_25863872/mourners-at-candlelight-vigil-remember-san-jose-isla
​

* * *

Ok - this is about GC, the young man who did not live in ER's apartment but was found dead in ER's apartment.

Now why would the young man have left his phone plugged in and charging in his on-campus dorm to go to the off-campus apartment of ER & his two roommates? Was he lured there as ER said in his manifesto he would do?

Why didn't GC take his phone? Aren't cell phones practically glued to the hands of that generation?

Not if it needed to be charged.

 

[lawstudent]

California requires all guns to be registered and ER DID buy his firearms through authorized guns stores that did do a background check. It would have shown up on LE's computers IF they had run a firearm check.

But............no one knew or said anything about firearms.

PS. California has one of the strictest fire arms policy in the Nation. My BiL, who is retired San Jose LE even has to go through all the hoops when he buys a firearm (he's a collector).

I mean that it wouldn't have shown any red flags. They'd see he had legally purchased guns. They wouldn't be able to take any action.

But if his mom and or Therapist would have given officers a quick rundown of his history and that mom and dad thought he could be suicidal they would have had reasonable cause to proceed further. The long time family friend said the parents thought he was capable of killing himself but not others.

No, a quick run down is not probable cause. Police have probable cause when they suspect criminal activity - not mental health problems. Someone can call up and claim anything about someone else - the police can only go see for themselves if the person appears to be out of control. They have no right to search the person's home unless it appears someone is in danger. Suicide isn't a crime in most places, and if the parents didn't have an explicit threat of suicide and were just worried about his behavior, even if it was, there was no probable cause. Presumably if he'd made very specific threats his parents might have flown out there to intervene - the fact that they seemed to let it go somewhat after the welfare check makes me think they were worried, but upon seeing he was alive and coherent, thought they had misinterpreted his emails/videos or something.

 

[mrsobrien]

I am in awe of the grace of the victims' families. To offer forgiveness and condolences to the family of your child's killer... wow. It is a distinct contrast to the evil, these people inspire me. <3

When [JC, father of murdered GC] visited his son's dormitory this week to collect his personal belongings, he found his son's laptop on, a half-completed computer project still on the screen. His son's cell phone was still plugged in, charging. It was as if life had simply been suspended, he added.

... [GC] lived in a campus dorm ...

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_25863872/mourners-at-candlelight-vigil-remember-san-jose-isla
​

* * *

Ok - this is about GC, the young man who did not live in ER's apartment but was found dead in ER's apartment.

Now why would the young man have left his phone plugged in and charging in his on-campus dorm to go to the off-campus apartment of ER & his two roommates? Was he lured there as ER said in his manifesto he would do?

Why didn't GC take his phone? Aren't cell phones practically glued to the hands of that generation?

 

[Bernina]

I mean that it wouldn't have shown any red flags. They'd see he had legally purchased guns. They wouldn't be able to take any action.

*Respectfully snipped by me*

If the "welfare check" was for possible suicidal ideologies, and LE WAS aware of weapons WITH an "alleged" MI, they could have taken "temporarily" possession of them.

ER was slick. I read his manifest and watched his videos the day after the murders.........that's why I can not agree with ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder). My son's GF watched and read also, her sister has HF ASD (Aspergers). She doesn't agree with it either.:twocents:

 

[Ray_of_hope]

When [JC, father of murdered GC] visited his son's dormitory this week to collect his personal belongings, he found his son's laptop on, a half-completed computer project still on the screen. His son's cell phone was still plugged in, charging. It was as if life had simply been suspended, he added.

... [GC] lived in a campus dorm ...

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_25863872/mourners-at-candlelight-vigil-remember-san-jose-isla
​

* * *

Ok - this is about GC, the young man who did not live in ER's apartment but was found dead in ER's apartment.

Now why would the young man have left his phone plugged in and charging in his on-campus dorm to go to the off-campus apartment of ER & his two roommates? Was he lured there as ER said in his manifesto he would do?

Why didn't GC take his phone? Aren't cell phones practically glued to the hands of that generation?

Interesting point Q. I don't know if he drove (or even had access to a car) but as soon as my children had a car and cell phone, they also had quick chargers for the car (in case batteries got low). My oldest was not allowed to have his car for his first year on campus (discouraged by University and enforced by us) because he lived on campus. Also the fact that his Dad stated that when he called to check on his son, the son didn't pick up which was noted to be very unusual. I don't know how often his parents called, but if they checked often, then you've made a very interesting point indeed.

 

[Whiteorchids]

I mean that it wouldn't have shown any red flags. They'd see he had legally purchased guns. They wouldn't be able to take any action.







No, a quick run down is not probable cause. Police have probable cause when they suspect criminal activity - not mental health problems. Someone can call up and claim anything about someone else - the police can only go see for themselves if the person appears to be out of control. They have no right to search the person's home unless it appears someone is in danger. Suicide isn't a crime in most places, and if the parents didn't have an explicit threat of suicide and were just worried about his behavior, even if it was, there was no probable cause. Presumably if he'd made very specific threats his parents might have flown out there to intervene - the fact that they seemed to let it go somewhat after the welfare check makes me think they were worried, but upon seeing he was alive and coherent, thought they had misinterpreted his emails/videos or something.

If I seriously thought my son might commit suicide I know him better than any cop. Sadly, I would lie and say he told me he was going to so cops would take the situation more serious.

 

[Bernina]

Ok - this is about GC, the young man who did not live in ER's apartment but was found dead in ER's apartment.

Now why would the young man have left his phone plugged in and charging in his on-campus dorm to go to the off-campus apartment of ER & his two roommates? Was he lured there as ER said in his manifesto he would do?

Why didn't GC take his phone? Aren't cell phones practically glued to the hands of that generation?

If you have a teenager, young adult in the house, they often leave their computer on..........for days if no one tells them they're using up electricity.
We don't know just how far away this young man lived from ER's apartment, it might have been a block? GC might have believed he was only going to be there for a few moments, and depending on when he actually left his place, he may have had no need for his cell phone.

 

[Bernina]

Interesting point Q. I don't know if he drove (or even had access to a car) but as soon as my children had a car and cell phone, they also had quick chargers for the car (in case batteries got low). My oldest was not allowed to have his car for his first year on campus (discouraged by University and enforced by us) because he lived on campus. Also the fact that his Dad stated that when he called to check on his son, the son didn't pick up which was noted to be very unusual. I don't know how often his parents called, but if they checked often, then you've made a very interesting point indeed.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_25863872/mourners-at-candlelight-vigil-remember-san-jose-isla

JC called his son Friday evening, but got no answer.

"Junan Chen said he watched the scene in Isla Vista as it unfolded on the news the night of the killings, but because his son lived in a campus dorm, he figured he was safe from harm.

He called his son anyway, but he didn't pick up, which was out of the ordinary. When Chen's parents called again on Saturday, their son still did not pick up. Though they remained mostly unconcerned, Junan Chen said, when a Santa Barbara sheriff's deputy arrived at their home Saturday night, "things changed forever."

 

[CARIIS]

From what I have seen reported, his mother was the one who reported him to a mental health professional, who then called police. So, yes, must have been concerning enough, but police didn't bother to view them.

RE" concerning enough that someone reported him to the police

the "someone" is his parent, who for the last 13 years has been involved with mental health folk who educated her one degree of her child illness. \ They got a call from a mental health professional.


When we have to call, the dispatcher is not grilling us &#8211; they say thank you we will get someone over there right away. Nor would ever feel the need to get into You Tube stuff when calling in a high risk client. I identify myself, provide credentials and tell them I have concerns. That is it.No clinician is going to be doing treatment team with a police operator who is taking phone calls.


And roles here matter, when LE gets a call from a credentitialed mental health professional they are not questioning. They did what law requires. There also seems to be like this notion that law enforcement should have pulled of the side of the road, got on You Tube and reviewed stuff that is clearly out of their training or skill set.



In all likelihood what happened the dispatcher got on the radio , and said unit 402 welfare check at XX possible suicide risk. That&#8217;s it . The dispatcher in not going to get into a clinical presentation of a citizen
.
They responded, the door opened and in front of them was a well-dressed calm thoughtful individual who it seems when asked if he was having problems acknowledge that he was having dating problems.



The history of the current laws are in the 50&#8217;s early 60;s the mentally ill were exploited, taken to asylums chained to walls and lived the rest of their of lives there. Society decided that even if someone is ill they it is the repsonsibity of the society to prove that that American is totally unable to behave in appropriate manner in public, poses a threat to society or self at large.


If they went there and the same ER answered and when asked said yes I feel like blowing my neighbors head off &#8211; different story/. It they went to the door and a ER came to the door, in his underwear, unshaven, told LE that he was Jesus and the house smelled through the door like rotting food Different story



The rage at LE is a result of what happened that Friday in May. There has to be the ability to rewind the clock by a month, look at the You Tube postings and ask yourself is there anything like the last video in any of the others. And the answer is no.


However, it is not LE role (lets go they pulled over got on YT and watch &#8211; they are not trained. It&#8217;s just not there area of expertise, they followed the law, that Is why the department has taken no action against the officers involved &#8211; they did what the law requires them to do.


If as a society we feel that iis not ok then we need to work on changing the laws.

If one&#8217;s believes the speed limit on our expressways are too high, one can&#8217;t find blame with LE who are only ticketing folks who are going past the posted speed limit. -

 

[Bernina]

If I seriously thought my son might commit suicide I know him better than any cop. Sadly, I would lie and say he told me he was going to so cops would take the situation more serious.

There's a possibility that "suicidal intent" was not established by the individual who called LE. LE might have been told ER could "possibly" be in a very depressed state. ER was an adult. His family/therapist/whoever might not have wanted to go overboard and threaten his possible residency in that apartment with LE carting him off? Or maybe they didn't want to incur ER's wrath?
You have to claim to have heard or read "suicidal threats" from the individual, and then LE would be prepared to 1510 on the spot if it was warranted.

 

[jjenny]

Are we allowed to post a photo of his sister or is that against TOS? She's very pretty. It's strange ER doesn't mention her very much in his manifesto. I doubt they were close.

Actually, ER does mention her. He was jealous of her as well, since she had a boyfriend.