Found Deceased CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 21 Jul 2023, w/ JohnRoot Fitzpatrick, 55, missing, 30 Jul ‘23

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slowpoke said:
Their postings are still there on the Morongo Basin Sheriff‘s Station FB Page, fwiw:
Fang Jin, missing
John Fitzpatrick, missing
Click to expand...

I noticed a comment under JF"s missing poster referencing the unsolved Lauren 'El' Cho, case...FWIW

www.the-sun.com

Who was Lauren Cho and what was her cause of death?

AUTHORITIES and family members are continuing the search for Lauren Cho, 30, who mysteriously went missing on June 28. Cho was reported missing after last being seen in California’s Yucca Val…
www.the-sun.com www.the-sun.com

Snipped...
...There are seemingly no traces of Cho in or around the valley she was last seen in, leaving authorities to believe she might have hitch-hiked or caught a ride with someone in the area.

ETA:
www.websleuths.com

Found Deceased - CA - Lauren Cho, 30, from NJ was visiting for 2 mos, Morongo Valley, 28 Jun 2021

Morongo Basin Sheriff's Station | Facebook MISSING: Lauren Cho, adult female age 30, wearing a yellow tee shirt and jean shorts, Last seen yesterday at 3pm, in the area of Hoopa x Benmar in Morongo Valley on foot. If seen contact dispatch immediately at (760)956-5001 or Detective Ables at...
www.websleuths.com www.websleuths.com
 
cenilla said:
<modsnip - referred to deleted post> I think the case is turning cold. Here is SinoVision's phone interview with Jin's daughter Lin, you can hear her anxious daughter's young voice.
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Thank you. The behavior is mainly being very controlling of the distribution of information. Not necessarily wanting assistance from random public. I was curious if that type of behavior in general could be a cultural difference/result of foreign media? I know very little about their culture so I was just trying to learn in general. It seems pride and reputation is very important. I am not trying to say they did anything wrong. It just seems to me their culture dictates different actions in a situation like this. Ty
 
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megs1477 said:
. It seems pride and reputation is very important. I am not trying to say they did anything wrong. It just seems to me their culture dictates different actions in a situation like this. Ty
Click to expand...

This. 100%. From the get-go it's as if everything started on the wrong foot.

Also... where are JRFs friends and family? I also didn't know there are 300 mine shafts in the area (thank you, Dateline nbc)- if there was a mishap while exploring one of those, that is troubling.
 
megs1477 said:
Do you think the behavior of the volunteers/friends on the & Reddit are acting honestly as the family wishes, or are they trying to be protective of the family and their reputation, and have no knowledge of what is needed in a case like this?

I appreciate your post. This case has bothered me since day 1. I am now torn between someone shady going on and there being a cultural difference that is causing things to appear odd.
Click to expand...

I think they (the R-person) may be putting out the story/info like they do because they need more attention to her case.
(I guess 'overdramatizing' is not the right word but... looking for similar word.)
The family just need help from authorities and people to share and look etc, but I haven't seen much response (like Hey, I'll put up posters and gather a search party on Sunday!, or I'm starting a group now! etc) from anyone on social media posts or elsewhere at all.
I'd be so frustrated. Especially with the mystery of JRF who no one he knows seem to be pleading for help, what's going on there?
I haven't seen that the Chinese Embassy or any Chinese communities have been asked to help or been contacted by family or friends either.
The silence in some cases while others get the entire world's attention is weird to me.
 
This news broadcast was posted a few days ago at the bottom of Fang Jin's online missing person's flyer. It is a news broadcast from a few weeks ago. There are two non-profits mentioned which take interest in these sorts of cases. A representative from one of them is interviewed.

missingpersonscenter.org

Fang Jin - Missing Persons Center

Fang Jin, 47, and her companion, John Fitzpatrick, 52, had been missing since late July from Morongo Valley in San Bernardino County where Fitz
missingpersonscenter.org missingpersonscenter.org

Some information about the news station from their website:
KESQ-TV covers a wide area of the low desert area of Southern California’s Coachella Valley, covering the cities of Palm Springs, Palm Desert, Desert Hot Springs, Cathedral City, Rancho Mirage, Indian Wells, La Quinta, Indio, Coachella, Mecca, Thermal, and many more communities in the high desert
 
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@flowershop the rep from the nonprofit mentioned exactly what eveyeone is saying... getting the story out there and hoping it goes viral - but the conflicting number of facts is making it near impossible. Gabby's family created a website immediately and her photos were everywhere, put there by family and friends.

- This news report said JF spoke with family on 7/22, but Chinese reports say 7/21. Which is it?
- Did Jin really pay JRF to work as her guide? Both scenarios seem possible but what of the chinese news saying it was a budding relationship? Again, both seem possible but it would be kind of helpful to know which is true.

I still don't understand the connection behind the efforts /lack thereof.
 
I was reading an NBC news article about Krystie Stuart, who went missing (later found deceased almost 4 yrs later) whose jurisdiction was also under the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Dept.

A quote in it seemed relevant to Fang Jin’s case:
”Cris Armenta, an attorney working pro bono with the Stuart family for over a year, said the classification of “voluntarily missing” made it less likely for Krystie to be found, since it’s a low-urgency missing classification. This means, according to Armenta, not as many search efforts were dedicated to Krystie’s disappearance as there would have been had she been reported as “suspicious missing,” a higher-urgency label. Armenta told Dateline she believes Krystie should have been marked as at least “suspicious missing,” because it was out of character for her not to be in touch with her parents.”
——-
This attorney is the one @flowershop mentioned above (rep for a non-profit). Maybe that’s what it takes, to get the SBCSD change the classification for Fang to “suspicious missing” rather than “voluntary missing”, if changing to the more elevated classification will help allow the family members in China to come to the US to help find Fang and get LE to act with more urgency. Is that possible, though. The attorney is pretty critical of the Sheriff’s Dept in the NBC news report I’ve linked.
 
10ofRods said:
In what way does she not have the same legal rights as a US Citizen? Which rights does she not have?

She's unlikely to be hired - but she has the right to apply for a work visa and to apply for a job, etc. She can't get welfare benefits - but those are not rights, to begin with. She has the right to remain silent if arrested, just as everyone on US soil has.

This idea that we only give our own citizens rights is quite new to me, are there really incidents of foreign visitors being locked up without due process? But we have freedom of movement, of speech, of the press, of non-self incrimination - and so do foreign visitors. There are many non-citizens who have lived, worked and been afforded every legal right that a US citizen - while in the US. It's one reason people do come here, not seeking citizenship, just residency. To work and live in America - where anyone (including foreigners) can file a lawsuit. I work among many legal non-citizens. They are not denied their rights by LE or by the courts.

IMO.
Click to expand...
I referring to the fact that Ms Jin is on a 3 month visa. Therefore, after 3 months she‘ll start accruing “unlawful presence”, which could jeopardize her ability to legally stay in the US if she wanted to.
 
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10ofRods said:
How is this an international law issue? Ambassadors do not usually weigh in on the voluntarily missing cases of their citizens who are on proper visas.

Someone would have to contact them, convince them it was an INVOLUNTARILY missing person. Ambassadors do not usually try to challenge local customs, laws or ordinances.

It is entirely up to the local jurisdiction (San Bernardino County, the other counties - and the State of California) to deal with this - and SBCSO is dealing with this as they deal with the other 3000 missing people in their county.

I don't even think that some kind of press release by a foreign embassy would get any press/MSM coverage here in California. Of course interest is waning, because either this pair has encountered dire and tragic circumstances together, or one of them has, or they are off having a great time traveling around North America. No one knows.

The people I think are the most remiss are the friends and family of JRF, because they know the ropes here (and hold the key to getting more investigation).

IMO.
Click to expand...
A key purpose of embassies and consulates is to protect the interests of their respective citizens. If a citizen went missing, it would not be unusual for someone at the embassy to be "point person". See the varying interventions in the recent case of a Russian missing in Fiji, embassy coordination in the Kaitlin Armstrong case in Costa Rica, murders in Crete and Zimbabwe, etc.

Statements? The coordination might be behind the scenes, and not public. And there might be statements and particulars in China, and not the US. Aaaand....there might even be amateur sleuths in China who have background, LE leaks, etc.

A missing foreigner in southern CA would likely be handled by a consulate, and not an embassy, since DC (where the embassy is) is a few thousand miles away. Unless it's been closed because it's a hotbed of spies (which IIRC happened in the last 10 years to a Chinese consulate), there's prolly a consulate in LA.

Speaking of which....do we really have a firm idea about this missing person and the purpose of her visit? As far as I can tell, it's kinda murky, and no one is exactly clear, even the people who know her.

IMO in a "Chinese national visiting the US" we could get into extremely muddy waters, and how a diplomatic mission might respond, well, that too. Not to tar anyone with a particular brush, but being a Chinese citizen in the US is currently complicated by international politics and national intent.

And since you brought up the category of voluntary/involuntary, @10ofRods , there could be shades here, and not black and white. Supposing, for instance, you were required to do something and did it perforce, but not gladly. Is that voluntary or involuntary?

I recalled correctly....the abstruse function of Chinese consulates/embassy in US and their employees/handlers:

 
tarabull said:
I noticed a comment under JF"s missing poster referencing the unsolved Lauren 'El' Cho, case...FWIW

www.the-sun.com

Who was Lauren Cho and what was her cause of death?

AUTHORITIES and family members are continuing the search for Lauren Cho, 30, who mysteriously went missing on June 28. Cho was reported missing after last being seen in California’s Yucca Val…
www.the-sun.com www.the-sun.com

Snipped...
...There are seemingly no traces of Cho in or around the valley she was last seen in, leaving authorities to believe she might have hitch-hiked or caught a ride with someone in the area.

ETA:
www.websleuths.com

Found Deceased - CA - Lauren Cho, 30, from NJ was visiting for 2 mos, Morongo Valley, 28 Jun 2021

Morongo Basin Sheriff's Station | Facebook MISSING: Lauren Cho, adult female age 30, wearing a yellow tee shirt and jean shorts, Last seen yesterday at 3pm, in the area of Hoopa x Benmar in Morongo Valley on foot. If seen contact dispatch immediately at (760)956-5001 or Detective Ables at...
www.websleuths.com www.websleuths.com
Click to expand...
IIRC Lauren Cho is not a missing persons or unsolved case or a comparator to the current one. AFAIK The Lauren Cho status is to this effect: "Case closed: leave the family to mourn in peace."
 
RickshawFan said:
IIRC Lauren Cho is not a missing persons or unsolved case or a comparator to the current one. AFAIK The Lauren Cho status is to this effect: "Case closed: leave the family to mourn in peace."
Click to expand...
I first learned about Lauren's case while searching for cases possibly related to this one. I really do wonder what happened to Lauren... I guess it's something we may not know...
 
slowpoke said:
I was reading an NBC news article about Krystie Stuart, who went missing (later found deceased almost 4 yrs later) whose jurisdiction was also under the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Dept.

A quote in it seemed relevant to Fang Jin’s case:
”Cris Armenta, an attorney working pro bono with the Stuart family for over a year, said the classification of “voluntarily missing” made it less likely for Krystie to be found, since it’s a low-urgency missing classification. This means, according to Armenta, not as many search efforts were dedicated to Krystie’s disappearance as there would have been had she been reported as “suspicious missing,” a higher-urgency label. Armenta told Dateline she believes Krystie should have been marked as at least “suspicious missing,” because it was out of character for her not to be in touch with her parents.”
——-
This attorney is the one @flowershop mentioned above (rep for a non-profit). Maybe that’s what it takes, to get the SBCSD change the classification for Fang to “suspicious missing” rather than “voluntary missing”, if changing to the more elevated classification will help allow the family members in China to come to the US to help find Fang and get LE to act with more urgency. Is that possible, though. The attorney is pretty critical of the Sheriff’s Dept in the NBC news report I’ve linked.
Click to expand...

Not sure that changing the designation to suspicious will help with the visa - as the three reasons given by the State Dept don't have anything to do with missing persons (medical emergencies, I think). But I do think it's worth a shot for them to try (and they could also get a tourist visa). Not sure what the family can do to help find her, at this point, either - but even "suspicious" missing wouldn't trigger much actual investigation. Needs to be a fully active, imperiled person missing person case.

Again, the couple's trail is over a vast swath of territory, equivalent to entire nations. The clues come from four counties (five if you consider that she arrived in L.A., but seems unlikely they are in L.A. County now). Three of those counties have lots of public land/less dense population. 3000 people missing in SBC alone.

I have to confess I don't completely understand why FJ's case is considered "voluntarily missing." What does LE know that we don't? Were they heading south for a reason? Did someone need a Mexican divorce? And then...a Mexican marriage? We also don't know if Fang Jin is avoiding talking to her family back home for some reason as opposition to her relationship with JRF (if there is such a relationship - it sure looks couple-ish to me, and it may have looked that way to the family).

So odd that LE say that FJ was paying JRF, while family seem to think it was otherwise

IMO.
 
RickshawFan said:
A key purpose of embassies and consulates is to protect the interests of their respective citizens. If a citizen went missing, it would not be unusual for someone at the embassy to be "point person". See the varying interventions in the recent case of a Russian missing in Fiji, embassy coordination in the Kaitlin Armstrong case in Costa Rica, murders in Crete and Zimbabwe, etc.

Statements? The coordination might be behind the scenes, and not public. And there might be statements and particulars in China, and not the US. Aaaand....there might even be amateur sleuths in China who have background, LE leaks, etc.

A missing foreigner in southern CA would likely be handled by a consulate, and not an embassy, since DC (where the embassy is) is a few thousand miles away. Unless it's been closed because it's a hotbed of spies (which IIRC happened in the last 10 years to a Chinese consulate), there's prolly a consulate in LA.

Speaking of which....do we really have a firm idea about this missing person and the purpose of her visit? As far as I can tell, it's kinda murky, and no one is exactly clear, even the people who know her.

IMO in a "Chinese national visiting the US" we could get into extremely muddy waters, and how a diplomatic mission might respond, well, that too. Not to tar anyone with a particular brush, but being a Chinese citizen in the US is currently complicated by international politics and national intent.

And since you brought up the category of voluntary/involuntary, @10ofRods , there could be shades here, and not black and white. Supposing, for instance, you were required to do something and did it perforce, but not gladly. Is that voluntary or involuntary?

I recalled correctly....the abstruse function of Chinese consulates/embassy in US and their employees/handlers:

Click to expand...

Hey, Rick - SO good to see you on this one.

I was referring to the fact that SBCSO has classified this as their lowest possible priority of missing person (voluntarily missing) which basically means that LE believe these two adults went off and disappeared (stopped contacting family) on their own. They suspect no foul play or any other suspicious behavior, such as coercion.

Of course, we don't know why LE decided that. As someone posted, it's usually because there's evidence or the "missing" have given word somehow that they are okay and need no assistance. I wish we knew why they chose that category.

Fang Jin herself could get certain kinds of help from the Consulate in Los Angeles (new passport; but I've never known any Consulate to help in anything that involved funds (fliers, radio announcements, etc). I've never even seen a Consulate put out a press release - but that would be interesting to research. Does the Consulate even know FJ is missing? There's not been a shred of publicity that I've seen in L.A. or L.A. County (or Orange County or San Diego, for that matter). That would be interesting to research.

Consular offices help with changing visa status all the time (most notably, from tourist to work visa of some kind). Mexico has a different agreement with the US than China does, so can be much more helpful (Consular Passes). Chinese Consulate apparently spends most of its time aiding Chinese citizens here on business related visas to get business licenses or other business-related paperwork done (taxes, understanding code, walking them through local regulations). And the area that receives their assistance is huge. They do have an emergency hotline - but I believe it is answered in Chinese and designed for Chinese nationals to use.

Service Area of the Chinese Consulate General in Los Angeles​
​
2018-05-31 06:34​
The consular district of the Chinese Consulate General in Los Angeles covers ten southern counties of the State of California, the State of Arizona, the State of New Mexico, the State of Hawaii and U.S. Pacific islands including Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands and American Samoa.

 
10ofRods said:
Does the Consulate even know FJ is missing?
Click to expand...
(snipped by me)

@cenilla posted a link to a Chinese language news report, and the translated version says this:

”On August 12, the staff of the Chinese Consulate General in Los Angeles told reporters that the consulate has contacted the local police and the family members of the missing person, and continues to pay attention to the progress of the incident. So far, the search is still in progress.”

So, the answer is yes, they know. Unknown what reporters is referenced. Only reporters in China?

Couldn’t the Consulate help guide the family with obtaining emergency visas to the US?
 
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