GUILTY CA - Forrest Hayes, 51, dies of heroin OD on yacht, Santa Cruz, 23 Nov 2013

[Jersey*Girl]

Is there a link to a legitimate news article that says she was adopted? As I recall, DaiyMail said some friend of hers from the private school in Maine said that but, I don't think she was adopted. She looks alot like her sister and her mother to me. I haven't seen a good picture of her father to compare.

I thought the same thing but how could they print that if it wasn't true?

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

If the dosage was too much for him, then yes. However, that would depend on him & if he used before or even if it was steady. They said first time user so then yeah it could happen as his body may not have been used to it, but whose to say he was actually for real a first time user. IMVHO, this is a grown man making grown man choices and even the police said it appeared consensual, so I'm curious if her charges will stick. Everybody says she's just as guilty bc she administered it and he died & heroin is illegal anyway...however so is prostitution and he's the one that sought her out & hired her. She may have been doing something illegal but so was he.

This case is interesting to me on so many levels, starting with the obtained video evidence. I'm very curious if sex or nudity was shown on that video, if she or anyone else knew they were being recorded, and if not is it still legally admissable? I'm thinking probably so since a death occurred and the video shows that, and maybe death would trump all else. Maybe?

It is my understanding that the risk of overdosing on H is on the first time and also right after a person has come out of rehab (has been clean for a while) and then uses again. That very next time can often be fatal.

I'm curious if they've tested the H to see if it is a "hot dose" (bad stuff) that she keeps administering. The LE will check out the source, believe me.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

It is my understanding that the risk of overdosing on H is on the first time and also right after a person has come out of rehab (has been clean for a while) and then uses again. That very next time can often be fatal.

I'm curious if they've tested the H to see if it is a "hot dose" (bad stuff) that she keeps administering. The LE will check out the source, believe me.

I want to know the same thing. Was something else in it?

 

[inquisitivecat]

Was there any mention of a health condition from those who knew him or his doctor? What about the one before that? My question is was the dose level in the blood normal for a first time user, addict or off the scale. Off the scale in blood level would point toward intended death from her knowledge of heroin I would guess.

If injecting someone with consent with illegal drugs and they die is murder then injecting someone with no death could be attemped murder?

Unless there is good proof of intent with him and especailly intent with the previous guy she was with I think this is just a bunch of messed up people doing crazy stuff. When this happens it almost always turns into a disaster anyway with anyone.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Shouldn't she have been sporting a tatt that read "When you play with fire, you get burnt....and hello, I'm fire" or something to that effect?

Very apropos.

 

[Ausgirl]

Hi Ausgirl. :seeya: I'm not Linda but I know what she's referring to as I've posted on many threads with her before & this has come up before. I don't think she's referring to her tattoos that make her look hard. IMO I think the reference of looking hard is the choice of wording on her tattoos, the deep layers of makeup applied, the grunge bottom barrel pictures, deep sunken eyes from possibly years of drug use, her choice of words on her social media suggesting she's into serial killers & following the satanic bible, etc. Only some of her older pics look kind of pretty. The others look desperate, reaching, and not at all serious model material. Her older pics look like HotRod material & could sell well. Not the latter ones though. Then pair that with being into bondage & prostitution, slutty could be a term that comes to mind...not bc of the tatts but bc of her lifestyle & how she carries herself.

Yeah, I hear ya. I'm just tetchy, as a tattooed former goth/metal chick with a long-standing interest in serial killers. Among that 'scene' , there's more decent people than not. People used to be openly surprised that I was intelligent, educated, articulate.. drug free... never been arrested... a good mother... on and on.. but if you choose to look different to the prevailing norm, what can one expect. People so often can't see beyond skin deep.

I just, really, think that how someone looks is not "proof" of anything. Except maybe their lifestyle choices, and not everyone in that 'lifestyle' takes drugs or kills people.

eta: So, IMO as a (mostly..) good person who spent their youth immersed in 'alternate' lifestyles, I have come to see that it's -behaviour- which matters and that's where the proof lies to a person's character, rather than how they look.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Yeah, I hear ya. I'm just tetchy, as a tattooed former goth/metal chick with a long-standing interest in serial killers. Among that 'scene' , there's more decent people than not. People used to be openly surprised that I was intelligent, educated, articulate.. but if you choose to look different to the prevailing norm, what can one expect. People so often can't see beyond skin deep.

I just, really, think that how someone looks is not "proof" of anything. Except maybe their lifestyle choices, and not everyone in that 'lifestyle' takes drugs or kills people.

Good point Ausgirl. In this situation, though, it's her drug use, prostitution, etc. I noticed that one of her other FB url's is modifieddollxx. Modified Dolls do some amazing charity work, that's for sure. Don't know if she just bit off their name or if she was actually one at one time but thought I'd note that.

& re the serial killer interest - me too even though I don't have any tattoos or piercings lol. True crime is a big interest of mine. I love learning case law & seeing how its all manipulated by both sides of attorneys. Interesting.

 

[time]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tml?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

Interesting article on the ex boyfriend... funny in a way because that guy is in a band and had some trouble a couple of years ago working without a contractors license. Doesn't mean he's not telling the truth.

 

[time]

I always thought people on heroin were more "open" and "relaxed". Maybe the prostitute on heroin would be more susceptible to different methods of sex as opposed to being clean. Maybe not, I don't really know. But how would sex be affected if both people are high on heroin? Is it even possible? Wouldn't they be too relaxed?

Someone else here probably knows a lot more than I do. It appears heroin lowers your interest in sex unless it's a small dosage (what I'm reading)? Not sure if that would happen if it's not regular use? Can make it difficult for men to ejaculate or get hard?

 

[time]

Omg, aside from the hair.. she doesn't look too different from me, that age.

Maybe my husband just liked slutty looking women too...

That made me laugh! I'm not thinking the tattoos mean too much either.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Hi Ausgirl. :seeya: I'm not Linda but I know what she's referring to as I've posted on many threads with her before & this has come up before. I don't think she's referring to her tattoos that make her look hard. IMO I think the reference of looking hard is the choice of wording on her tattoos, the deep layers of makeup applied, the grunge bottom barrel pictures, deep sunken eyes from possibly years of drug use, her choice of words on her social media suggesting she's into serial killers & following the satanic bible, etc. Only some of her older pics look kind of pretty. The others look desperate, reaching, and not at all serious model material. Her older pics look like HotRod material & could sell well. Not the latter ones though. Then pair that with being into bondage & prostitution, slutty could be a term that comes to mind...not bc of the tatts but bc of her lifestyle & how she carries herself.

Yes, that^^^^ exactly!

Has zero to do with the tattoos.

She appears like all she's missing is the ball gag and dog collar & leash. IMO

Thank you JerseyGirl for responding in my absence.

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[Linda7NJ]

Shouldn't she have been sporting a tatt that read "When you play with fire, you get burnt....and hello, I'm fire" or something to that effect?

Very apropos.

A prostitute complete with a warning from the surgeon general tattooed right above her hoo-ha ...I can see it now.....

IMO


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[Ausgirl]

Well, an interest in BDSM doesn't mean is a person is bad or inclined to kill either. As to whether it makes a person <modsnip>I guess everyone has their own view on such things. Personally, I don't think it does. But strokes for folks. :dunno:

It was mentioned in an article (will dig up the link when I have time, it was previously posted tho) that it was Riopelle who actually got Tichelman interested in the BDSM lifestyle. He used to take her about places wearing a collar, apparently. So she did have one, at some point.

There's 'respectable' pastors stabbing thier wives to death, there's women in twin set and pearls poisoning their kids, in this world. Looks mean nothing when it comes to "proof" of intent to murder.

<modsnip>

 

[inquisitivecat]

Clothing can be changed in minutes, body damage from drugs cannot at all or very little. A meth addict with no teeth from meth certainly has brain damage and can be determined in a flash from just looks. What body parts fail with a typical heroin addict in the long term? Does long term use show up on a MRI of the brain?

 

[Ausgirl]

This is just what I know, from observation, cat.

Yep, a man with heroin habit can lose interest in sex. Especially if he's been on it a long time. There's both physical and neurological reasons for that.

Muscle wasting is a big thing, I have noticed. Not always, but a lot of the people I knew who ended up on it lost not only weight but a lot of muscle tone as well. Plus all kinds of health problems due to the crap they cut the drugs with building up in the body/organs/veins.

Heroin affects the pleasure centers of the brain. Research I did some time ago (and it was ages now, so forgive me if I'm off) suggested that opiates permanently (iirc?) change the way the brain receives pleasurable sensations. That's why it's so addictive - it's "better than sex" is a despcription I have heard many times in relation to heroin use.

The few people I know who have sustained long-term habits (and are still living) generally all look 'old for their time' and their skin is dull. I do know one woman who you'd never guess was a long-term user, she looks pretty good for her age (better than me, and I have never used! it isn't fair..)

eta: of course, there's also the blood-borne diseases like hep B and C and AIDS, and other infections that are common to drug users. Those can make a person look extremely ill (because they are..)

eta: oh - and neglect of nutrition is a factor as well.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Well, yeah - whatevs.

But this is what I'm saying - someone looking a certain way doesn't make them "slutty", their behaviour might, if you want to judge it that way. Tichelman certainly was a sex worker, so I guess I can see the reasoning for that judgement there (I know sex workers who would argue the point, fwiw). But not all people who dress or look that way are "slutty" or "advertising" anything at all.... and nor does it mean they're more than inclined to kill than anybody else.

I would agree with that.

It just so happens this one looks the part.


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[Jersey*Girl]

Well, yeah - whatevs.

But this is what I'm saying - someone looking a certain way doesn't make them "slutty", their behaviour might, if you want to judge it that way. Tichelman certainly was a sex worker, so I guess I can see the reasoning for that judgement there (I know sex workers who would argue the point, fwiw). But not all people who dress or look that way are "slutty" or "advertising" anything at all.... and nor does it mean they're more than inclined to kill than anybody else.

I hear you & agree...but...there's a pic on one of her FB profiles that shows a pic of her in either sheer or crotchless panties fully showing the split between her labia. So IMVHO, paired with her druggy addictions, & sex sales, that's the sluttiest portrayal of all hookin' . I'm not saying people with tattoos or sexy clothing are . I'm not even saying somebody showing cleavage or wearing tight clothing is a . However, by definition, she most definitely is a .

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Well, an interest in BDSM doesn't mean is a person is bad or inclined to kill either. As to whether it makes a person "slutty", I guess everyone has their own view on such things. Personally, I don't think it does. But strokes for folks. :dunno:

It was mentioned in an article (will dig up the link when I have time, it was previously posted tho) that it was Riopelle who actually got Tichelman interested in the BDSM lifestyle. He used to take her about places wearing a collar, apparently. So she did have one, at some point.

There's 'respectable' pastors stabbing thier wives to death, there's women in twin set and pearls poisoning their kids, in this world. Looks mean nothing when it comes to "proof" of intent to murder.

Or how "slutty" someone actually may be, for that matter. =p

BBM: Well, everyone has to know their own personal limits and that is why I would never entertain that lifestyle---it would be like me tap dancing around quicksand, iykwim. As far as not judging someone by their outward appearance, it may not be fair but it is done all the time by everybody. Just life. I think it may be a form of self-preservation to subliminally make determinations about people around you: "flight or fight" and all that good stuff.

Also, behavior and the way someone dresses is a fine-line distinction, imho. I've seen many a dude live up or down to the way he's dressing. Which came first, the behavior or the clothing style, I don't know?

Bottom line: people are going to make judgements....I doubt that will change. And I doubt that it is always fair or always accurate but it is what it is.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

This is just what I know, from observation, cat.

Yep, a man with heroin habit can lose interest in sex. Especially if he's been on it a long time. There's both physical and neurological reasons for that.

Muscle wasting is a big thing, I have noticed. Not always, but a lot of the people I knew who ended up on it lost not only weight but a lot of muscle tone as well. Plus all kinds of health problems due to the crap they cut the drugs with building up in the body/organs/veins.

Heroin affects the pleasure centers of the brain. Research I did some time ago (and it was ages now, so forgive me if I'm off) suggested that opiates permanently (iirc?) change the way the brain receives pleasurable sensations. That's why it's so addictive - it's "better than sex" is a despcription I have heard many times in relation to heroin use.

The few people I know who have sustained long-term habits (and are still living) generally all look 'old for their time' and their skin is dull. I do know one woman who you'd never guess was a long-term user, she looks pretty good for her age (better than me, and I have never used! it isn't fair..)

eta: of course, there's also the blood-borne diseases like hep B and C and AIDS, and other infections that are common to drug users. Those can make a person look extremely ill (because they are..)

I think of Philip Seymour Hoffman - never in a million years would I have thought he was a heroin addict. RIP.

 

[inquisitivecat]

Does it affect men and women different? What I have noticed is women get hit harder from drug addiction, not knowing what drugs they used, then men after long term use. Women have a more complex immune system for sure.