GUILTY CA - Gianni, 24, & Sal Belvedere, 22, Ilona Flint, 22, San Diego, 24 Dec 2013 - #1

[Curious Me]

Why in such a public place? Why during the holiday season? Again, I ask, why all three?

And then, why leave Gianni up there in Riverside in the trunk? How long has he been dead?

I only have questions right now. Whoever killed these three young people so brutally, for whatever reason, must be stopped.

 

[Mouse]

Here's an interesting article about the durability of fingerprints:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19740979

A wee bit...umm, vivid, so if you have a nervous stomach like I do, you may not want to read it over a meal. (On the other hand, it's from the BBC, so it's not going to be too sensational of an article. It's probably just me.)

Of course, the article talks about cold affecting the preservation of fingerprint details, whereas in this case they're dealing with warm weather conditions. But still, that the fingerprint goes beyond the surface skin layer would still apply, I think. And now I have to stop talking about decomposing fingerprints, because I'm starting to feel a little green-about-the-gills-ish.

 

[Carioca]

Please forgive me if I missed this earlier. Is there any surveillance video of the area of the mall parking lot where the first two victims were found? I wonder if there's a car visible nearby that might somehow match up with a suspect vehicle, or trigger someone's memory who maybe saw it but didn't think anything of it at the time.

BBM There is at least one camera in front of Macy's parking lot as per attached photos (red arrows pointing to it). This one is a bit of distance from where the car was, which was closer to the star in the Macy's logo... My gut feeling tells me LE has surveillance images but that's just my gut and JMO.

 

[bwt42]

Press conference Friday. Sure hope someone asks if a gun was found in the trunk. That answer could certainly eliminate suicide. If there is a gun, could still be murder or suicide. Have not seen anything posted yet that would preclude my triangle theory. If no gun, I'll have some crow to eat. Can anyone think of a reason le would not release the gun information?

 

[lynxofsd]

Other than the McStay's, (which is spooky enough), I'm having a hard time recalling another (recent) multiple murder in San Diego County that hasn't been linked to a family member who was quickly identified. Usually they are apprehended fairly quickly or they commit suicide.

LE has certainly talked to the Belvedere family and anyone else they know of who knew these three people well. I suspect that somebody knows them well enough to have a credible idea as to why they were all murdered in this way. Those that know the most might want to say the least.

I think (and so do you) that LE probably has a reasonably accurate motive in mind relating to this crime. Most murders arise from only a few causes that repeat themselves over and over again. Some of the most prevalent (robbery, etc.) seem to be ruled out here.

Hopefully the perpetrator(s) can be brought to justice before they execute others so callously.

 

[Sandyggo]

BBM There is at least one camera in front of Macy's parking lot as per attached photos (red arrows pointing to it). This one is a bit of distance from where the car was, which was closer to the star in the Macy's logo... My gut feeling tells me LE has surveillance images but that's just my gut and JMO.

Most of the time those cameras face the entrances to the malls and the doors into (enter/exit) of stores. Those look real. Though I know there are some "cameras" at a local park I walk at that are fake, relying on the panoptic theory to discourage crime.

Most cameras are placed to watch assets and employees. They are rarely used commercially to protect cars in the parking lot (that's what insurance is for). IMO that is why the car in Riverside was parked away from the businesses in the far corner of the lot. To avoid cameras.

I hope they may have captured some video, but I doubt it. I am also feeling like Gianni was taken from his home in Tierrasanta, his car driven to the mall, it may have been the vehicle used in the double-murder. Then the driver immediately headed north. Because Gianni's car with the Utah plates was able to get past the Homeland Security Checkpoint in Temecula. Must have gotten past that point before the APB went out about Giann's. Those checkpoints are clustered with cameras. They may be able to go back and find a photo of the car from the checkpoint.

 

[SDHELPS]

Press conference Friday. Sure hope someone asks if a gun was found in the trunk. That answer could certainly eliminate suicide. If there is a gun, could still be murder or suicide. Have not seen anything posted yet that would preclude my triangle theory. If no gun, I'll have some crow to eat. Can anyone think of a reason le would not release the gun information?

BBM

Do you have a link for the presser tomorrow? Thanks for the heads up.! Regarding the eliminating the suicide theory I'm confused as to why it's still being mentioned. I think LE is very clear on the matter unless I'm missing something all together which is entirely possible.

The cause of the death has not been released. However, detectives clarified that Belvedere was a victim.

""Mr. Belvedere was the victim of a homicide," the police release states

More here: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...-Eve-Shooting-Gianni-Belvedere-241680041.html

 

[Sandyggo]

Can anyone think of a reason le would not release the gun information?

um. they don't have a gun?

they also must not want to release the the caliber (or ballistics information) from the double murders to general public.

 

[Curious Me]

http://www.10news.com/news/2-people-found-shot-in-car-near-westfield-mission-valley-mall12242013

Here's a close-up from one of the news casts:

http://www.10news.com/news/2-people-found-shot-in-car-near-westfield-mission-valley-mall12242013

And from a totally *unrelated* case from another state, there's a photo at the link below that shows what a window looked like after being shot from the outside. Very similar. http://www.abcnews4.com/story/17297792/ncpd-investigating-incident-at-ashley-phosphate-citgo

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/dec/25/woman-killed-mall-shooting-with-boyfriend-brother/

I don't see a casing. It might be marking where the shoe (?) was.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...San-Diego-Man-Gianni-Belvedere-237577321.html

Hope nobody minds. I snipped the posts just to bump the photos.

 

[SDHELPS]

Most of the time those cameras face the entrances to the malls and the doors into (enter/exit) of stores. Those look real. Though I know there are some "cameras" at a local park I walk at that are fake, relying on the panoptic theory to discourage crime.

Most cameras are placed to watch assets and employees. They are rarely used commercially to protect cars in the parking lot (that's what insurance is for). IMO that is why the car in Riverside was parked away from the businesses in the far corner of the lot. To avoid cameras.

I hope they may have captured some video, but I doubt it. I am also feeling like Gianni was taken from his home in Tierrasanta, his car driven to the mall, it may have been the vehicle used in the double-murder. Then the driver immediately headed north. Because Gianni's car with the Utah plates was able to get past the Homeland Security Checkpoint in Temecula. Must have gotten past that point before the APB went out about Giann's. Those checkpoints are clustered with cameras. They may be able to go back and find a photo of the car from the checkpoint.

Jumping off your post Sandyggo... I remember at the beginning of the holiday shopping season SDPD was on the news because they were ramping up their presence in shopping mall parking lots. At the UTC Mall they had a large command post vehicle that had a telescope type camera that would extend to view the parking lots. Do we know if they had that at Mission Valley Mall?

Although even if they did it probably was not being monitored at 1:30 am. Just a thought.

 

[nikb]

In California they take your thumb print when you get a drivers license or ID card at the DMV. I just had it done last week. If he had a CA license then they would have at least his right thumbprint on file.

Oh geez I forgot about that one and I'm in CA. He had a CA license, right? I'm surprised how many times I see cases on here where there's NOT a print on file for the victim(s) or suspect(s). I've never been in trouble with LE and lead a very low key life, but I've got prints on file all over the place now that I think about it. I imagine that's not too unusual.

 

[nikb]

BBM There is at least one camera in front of Macy's parking lot as per attached photos (red arrows pointing to it). This one is a bit of distance from where the car was, which was closer to the star in the Macy's logo... My gut feeling tells me LE has surveillance images but that's just my gut and JMO.

Thank you! I appreciate the info and also agree with your gut feeling. I'm assuming they have some reason for not releasing it.

 

[SDHELPS]

um. they don't have a gun?

they also must not want to release the the caliber (or ballistics information) from the double murders to general public.

Okay...now I must really be missing something here lol Where was it stated that a gun was located???? Or is this just an assumption of the COD.

:truce:

 

[Sandyggo]

Jumping off your post Sandyggo... I remember at the beginning of the holiday shopping season SDPD was on the news because they were ramping up their presence in shopping mall parking lots. At the UTC Mall they had a large command post vehicle that had a telescope type camera that would extend to view the parking lots. Do we know if they had that at Mission Valley Mall?

Although even if they did it probably was not being monitored at 1:30 am. Just a thought.

I don't think they had one at the mall that night. They moved it around. I don't think they have many of them. They got one using a grant from the DHS.

They use them at the beaches in the summer and at other events to reduce crime by being present. It's called Mobile Utility Surveillance Tower (MUST).

 

[bwt42]

BBM

Do you have a link for the presser tomorrow? Thanks for the heads up.! Regarding the eliminating the suicide theory I'm confused as to why it's still being mentioned. I think LE is very clear on the matter unless I'm missing something all together which is entirely possible.



More here: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...-Eve-Shooting-Gianni-Belvedere-241680041.html

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jan/23/riverside-body-identified-gianni-belvedere/ press conference

 

[TravelingBug]

Jumping off your post Sandyggo... I remember at the beginning of the holiday shopping season SDPD was on the news because they were ramping up their presence in shopping mall parking lots. At the UTC Mall they had a large command post vehicle that had a telescope type camera that would extend to view the parking lots. Do we know if they had that at Mission Valley Mall?

Although even if they did it probably was not being monitored at 1:30 am. Just a thought.

I was at all the SD County malls around Christmas except Horton Plaza - which, with its strange lots, I don't think they'd even have one of their mobile tower things.

I saw them at each mall - in a few cases more than one at each mall. When I noticed it at Mission Valley it was at the Target end of the mall. But I have contacts who pass where Ilona and Salvatore were found several times a day so I'll ask if they had seen it down there at all, particularly that Monday going into Tuesday since it wasn't until later on the 24th I was there.

They had an extensive team of SDPD bike units as well - but not at that time of night.

There are a lot of surveillance cameras in and out of the mall itself. And the side of the lot they were in also has a bank with exterior cameras, so even though they weren't right there by the bank (or at least not found there) it'd have helped cover more of the traffic in/out. I'm sure they pulled that, as well.

 

[TravelingBug]

This is interesting about investigation at the restaurant and w/ neighbors:

http://www.10news.com/news/investig...eside-restaurant-where-gianni-brothers-worked

Curious that multiple neighbors would say it's closed three days a week and even then was often empty, but employees dispute it:

One neighbor's property is adjacent to the restaurant's parking lot. Emmanuel Sandoval said he never noticed anything too odd, except one thing.

"The restaurant is only open Thursday through Sunday - never a car in the lot, all day or night," Sandoval said. At least, not the times he looked past his property, which sits on a hill over the parking lot.

Another neighbor, who did not want to be identified, also said it appeared to him the restaurant was closed Mondays through Wednesdays.

Team 10 asked a Mario's worker if the restaurant was closed on those days, and she said no, they always were open except for Super Bowl Sunday.

I'm bummed the restaurant is in SDSO's jurisdiction. I have far less confidence in the SDSO than SDPD.

I'm not including the snippet of it, but it also talked about what appeared to be a party about to happen at Mario's...it was worded funny IMO. (And the timing is even more odd)

Mario's is owned by several different people, some of whom are relatives to the Belvedere brothers, according to public records. An uncle confirmed to Team 10 they did work there, but it's not clear for how long.

 

[TravelingBug]

Also, finding this interesting...it's been in nearly every article/source confirming the body to be Gianni's:

The last known sighting of the older brother was in Mission Valley about three hours before the shootings at the mall, authorities said. A relative said Gianni Belvedere went to the mall with the victims the night of the shooting, though police disputed that.

 

[Sandyggo]

I had a feeling once Gianni was found, they would start digging into the business relationships.

 

[thebestinthewest]

Im temporarily unretiring to post this, I had a good friend call me today who saw me posting on here and he was good friends with the trio and after coming up with the same theory we both agreed its best to share it and hope it strikes someone as familiar. When I said a drug deal gone bad I didn’t mean to come across as saying they were drug addicts but possibly recreational users. With the new year coming close it wouldn’t be a long shot to say that possibly there was planning to celebrate the new year with party favors such as ecstasy. Ecstasy isn’t cheap and it would make sense that Gianni was possibly meeting up with Sal and Ilona to possibly get money for their share Gianni goes to meet the dealer while Sal goes to get Ilona. Here is where I think it went bad this person/monster probably doesn’t even have the ecstasy but sees this as an opportunity to come up on unsuspecting trusting non-street smart young people. I picture this person as someone who doesn’t have money at the holidays and is jealous of anyone that does possibly someone who feels short changed by the system? The reason I say this is because of how public the slaying of Ilona and Sal was and whoever drove that car to Riverside took the risk of being pulled over that tells me that person would have no problem getting in a gun fight with police. Im going to go with that girl who said the car was only there 2 days she obviously knows where she usually parks and she wouldn’t have a reason to lie. I could see the reason that the suspect description hasn’t been released being there was a ransom for Gianni and one part of that ransom was that law enforcement not be involved etc. This all might sound like speculation but at this point any theory is speculation. I don’t think it had anything to do with the family being Italian based on the suspect description. Also when I have been with friends who have gotten X in the past the connect was always in City Heights and we’d meet them at a public place. Ok now back into retirement I go. Hopefully justice will be served I am going to donate some money towards capturing the perpetrator. I am really disappointed with LE for not offering the public more details its frightening that you don’t know what to look out for, how else can you protect yourself? Or stop this from happening again? I dont think this has anything to do with the family being Italian or any shady business dealings it's too sloppy and too brazen.