Identified! CA - Huntington Beach, WhtFem 40UFCA, 18-30, poss name Andrea, Apr'90 - Andrea Kuiper

[CarlK90245]

I guess the mobile home salesman hadn't heard about Andrea's death and come forward then.

The mobile home salesman was named and quoted in the article, so he obviously did hear about her death and did come forward.

 

[zwiebel]

I found this. It's really odd but there's enough of a resemblance for me to post it. The earrings could be clip-ons, but is that a deformity of the right ear?

"This girl ran away from home on an unknown date. Her name, height, weight and age are unknown. Nobody knows where she came from or where she went. But someone knows her name. Do you know her name?"
www.examiner.com/article/do-you-know-this-girl-s-name

 

[zwiebel]

I can't work out how they even know that girl is missing, to be honest.

 

[rosesfromangels]

This is an excerpt from the Doe network description of the remains of "Andrea":

..."* Distinguishing Characteristics: Brown eyes; brown hair. Acne scars were visible on her face. Well-nourished build with large breasts. Her feet were size six and she wore black toenail polish.
* Dentals: Her teeth showed signs of previous orthodontics and she had received dental care shortly before her death. Restorations on back of top front 4 teeth. Dental records and fingerprints are available..."

Two things shout out at me. The dental work was done SHORTLY before her death! That highly skilled porcelain restoration dentist was no doubt right there in upscale Huntington Beach. I strongly suggest that LE take another look at that.
Second, they mention her being "well nourished". That doesn't sound like a druggy homeless woman, does it? If she were a frequent coke user she would (most likely) NOT have been "well nourished". She wasn't homeless. Not with those restorations and being so well fed. She was running away. From who, or what...is the answer. I am leaning towards the theory of a "kept" woman who got kicked to the curb. Jilted.

 

[elliha]

Hmmm... I don't know what recent means when it comes to dentals, to me that would just mean that they looked fresh and where undamaged by wear which means they could be years old. About the well-nourished, it think this more refers to her having a stocky build not her actual nutritional status. I have a similar built to Andrea and it would take several years for me of very bad nutrition to look thin. Andrea was probably not homeless in the sense of actually sleeping in the streets but probably in the sense of having no real address and she seems to have been the type of person who makes people have sympathy for her so she probably got a meal here and there. If she is the Andrea of Mountain Man she would not have been outside of the circle he was in too long when she died.

 

[zwiebel]

Andrea's going out and spending the money she'd been given on new clothes and not drugs, really suggests to me that she was not a heavy drug user. The coroner said he thought she was a party girl, and those traces of cocaine and alcohol do make that seem possible. It would be so helpful to know anywhere else she might have been but I can imagine people might have been reluctant to come forward and say 'she got the cocaine at my party'.

I find it so poignant that she went out and bought those new clothes and shoes to look nice, before stepping out onto the highway.

 

[webrocket]

I had posed the question early on about the recent nature of the dental work and how that interrelated with MontanaMan's known an Andrea in the mid-80's. it seemed to me that 4 year old dental work (in my opinion only) is not really recent, so if Big Mouth Andrea and this "Andrea" are the same then I would think that she had to have returned home and gotten dental work done.

I think having read over all the discussions in the articles about "Andrea", she probably was not some 16 or 17 y.o. girl running around loose. she probably was a bit older. I don't know too many 17 year olds with expensive porcelain in their mouths (granted I don't go around asking teenagers) but she was probably more young in a social maturity way than an actual chronological age.

granted this is all speculation, I know nothing about her beyond what we've posted and read.

 

[TheHunter]

Hi hunter! Welcome!!!!
The witness said she cut her own hair in front of him for the ring. The extra hair was also found in her pocket. It being her own hair is what leads us to believe she was mourning her own death....

But to answer your question, I do not *think* DNA was done on just the hair for the above reason. Anyone else know anything more on this? I don't see why the witness would have lied about something like that.

As for the clothes, most likely goth/punk fashion.

I agree--it could be suicide the way her death was described, it sounded like she stepped in front of the cars on purpose(the only thing that troubles me is the brand new shoes that still had tags on them,why buy them if you were going to just do suicide?)(thanks for the welcome by the way -----I love this place and the people are great !!!)

 

[traacker13]

I found this. It's really odd but there's enough of a resemblance for me to post it. The earrings could be clip-ons, but is that a deformity of the right ear?

"This girl ran away from home on an unknown date. Her name, height, weight and age are unknown. Nobody knows where she came from or where she went. But someone knows her name. Do you know her name?"
www.examiner.com/article/do-you-know-this-girl-s-name

When I read the "deformity of the right ear" I thought of Racine Jane Doe. There is little resemblance though IMO.

 

[TheHunter]

I found 1 possible match : The missing person matches on age,race,weight(approx)hair color,eye color, face shape/feature placement(i think) here is the link: http://www.nampn.org/cases/neal_pamela.html

 

[CarlK90245]

I found 1 possible match : The missing person matches on age,race,weight(approx)hair color,eye color, face shape/feature placement(i think) here is the link: http://www.nampn.org/cases/neal_pamela.html

She does look close, and she does have a turned up nose. But her nose doesn't look quite the same, particularly at the columella (i.e., the portion of the nose that separates the nostrils).

Also, she is wearing an earring in the photo, and Andrea had unpierced ears.

 

[zwiebel]

Pamela is listed as having a scar on her chin and hand too. The one on her chin seems to be visible in the photos so I think it may be quite large.

 

[MrsTigglesworth]

Since MM's Andrea is still a possibility, I posted a little note on the disco website page for the City Beat in Seattle in case any of the other friends of that era can recall her. It will notify me if anyone else posts there, and I will of course notify y'all!

Roselvr, did you ever start a Facebook page? I can if not!

 

[Roselvr]

Since MM's Andrea is still a possibility, I posted a little note on the disco website page for the City Beat in Seattle in case any of the other friends of that era can recall her. It will notify me if anyone else posts there, and I will of course notify y'all!

Roselvr, did you ever start a Facebook page? I can if not!

Yes; I started it; it's offline. Message me; we'll work it so that I put it online; add you then put it back offline until it's done
I haven't worked on it much because I didnt want to over step

 

[Roselvr]

Check out what I found on FB Batcave,Deathrock,And cryptic Afterpunk - this is just a fan page dedicated to the origional 80s batcave scene as well as the deathrock and dark afterpunk scene

There are photos too!

This page is gone

 

[TheHunter]

She does look close, and she does have a turned up nose. But her nose doesn't look quite the same, particularly at the columella (i.e., the portion of the nose that separates the nostrils).

Also, she is wearing an earring in the photo, and Andrea had unpierced ears.

good eye! I didnt notice the earring... and that part of the nose you talked about--is what also gave me doubts as to weather or not the nose shape matched or not

 

[webrocket]

This page is gone

you're not missing anything. I had checked it out and most, if not all of the pictures were from London, UK.

it had nothing to do with Seattle.

 

[MrsTigglesworth]

Andrea: coroner case # 90-01853-LY

Andrea’s accident was very bad. She was hit by a white Mazda, then thrown into the path of a Lincoln Continental and ended up pinned beneath it. No charges were filed against the drivers. I doubt any witnesses have forgotten it and authorities who dealt with her case seem to have been deeply affected by it and very, very committed to identifying her. A lot of work has been done, imo. She had a blood-alcohol level of 0.07 and there were traces of cocaine in her system. One coroner said his personal opinion was she was a party girl.

The descriptions of Andrea as brown-eyed, brown-haired and with a buxom/full figure and slight acne scarring are all confirmed. As is the 5ft 4in height and 122lb weight, and the coroner reporting expensive, excellent porcelain dental work. She was in good health. Age 18-30 reported in all the articles from the 1990s.

Her dress is reported as being of black cotton, ‘long’ and ‘ankle-length. It had at least one pocket because the motel key was found in it. Her t-shirt was red and long-sleeved and her sweater was a ‘bulky, hot-pink knit, ‘New Hero’ brand’. The fish nets are reported as being both stockings and hose (does that mean tights?). She was wearing low heeled pink pumps, one of which still had a $19.95 price tag on. It’s reported by the man who gave her money and helped her that the shoes and (some/all?) of her clothes were bought at a Goodwill store. He also said she claimed to be adopted at a very young age, carried no identification and had made the hair ring by cutting her own hair the morning of her death, before she left his house. One article describes her clothing as ‘garish’. An employee of a new-age store in Long Beach called Eye of the Cat had speculated the hair was from a lover and the stone was a charm or worry stone.

Andrea was carrying a smooth black stone, a key with an unmarked orange tag, an Orange County Transit District bus schedule (for the route running from Santa Ana to Seal Beach via Westminster Ave) and $20.30 in cash (no wallet or purse). Also reported as being ‘$18 plus change’. Everyone involved with her case repeatedly mentions her youth, how she was such ‘a young girl’. It does suggest that she was much nearer the bottom of her age range than the top, imo, though one article states she may have been ‘as young as 18’.

The OC senior deputy coroner, Joe Luckey, took a particular interest in Andrea’s case because he was so touched by it:

‘At one point, Luckey carried a sketch of the woman pasted onto an identification card tucked in his wallet.’

He’d initially speculated Andrea was a drifter from out of state and the stone might have indicated membership of a cult because it was a ‘strange thing to be carrying around’. He checked 12 motels, asked everyone he knew personally about her, sent her prints to Cal ID and the FBI as well, and within a year had compared her details to 122 missing persons’ reports: ‘There was always something that didn’t match up’. Her info has been distributed to LE all across the US and hundreds of phone calls have been followed up. She ‘likely has not been arrested in California’.

Several people came forward when Andrea’s death was reported, including three transients who gave one of the following snippets of info each: She was from the East Coast, she was from Virginia and she was ‘adopted and raised in an orphanage’???(my question marks). Another said he had seen her going through a trash bin. One homeless man said he was 100 per cent certain she was the Andrea he had a brief friendship with when they met while he was hitching on the Pacific Coast Highway. She was riding in a car with a man who stopped for him (the hitcher). Andrea told the hitcher she was from ‘somewhere like Virginia’ and ‘another lady she was from New York’.

False hope was raised by a lady in Hampton, VA, a month after Andrea’s death. She knew a young adopted girl working her way to California to find her birth family, but the girl was happily found to be alive and well. Another lady from Tampa, FL, called in April 1992, convinced Andrea was her missing daughter. Luckey managed to trace the woman’s daughter, alive and well, and reunite them. ‘At least it makes it worthwhile,’ he said.

‘I see this as a girl who ran away, a bohemian type, into some kind of a scene – maybe a follower of a certain kind of music, what used to be called punk but is something different now. Her clothing is almost like a costume – thrift store stuff’; Bruce Lyle, supervising deputy, OC Coroner’s Office, April 14, 1990.


April 14, 1990, Bruce Lyle: ‘If she’s not identified soon, I think she’s going to be around here for a long time’.

On June 26, 1992, it was reported if Andrea was not identified, she would be cremated and her ashes scattered at sea.

Information from archive articles in the Orange County Register. Direct links to each article cannot be posted as these are paid-for articles and the link expires. Can be retrieved by a search under jane doe, andrea in OC Reg archives.

Bringing this back to the front.
"New hero" brand sweater details on the company here c. 1992

http://articles.latimes.com/1992-03-05/news/vw-4487_1_cotton-fabric

Definitely could have been a thrift store find or she could have previously owned it in an Eco conscious , Native American, new age, or resort-y lifestyle. The article does not mention sweaters, just pure cotton wovens but it was all I could find.

..working on a fashion sketch....

 

[carbuff]

re: DNA testing on the hair --

DNA testing had only been available for a couple of years in 1990, and it wasn't nearly as robust, as accurate, or as quick as the tests we have today. Or as cheap, for that matter. Its first uses were for paternity testing. It had only just begun to be used for forensics. Highly unlikely anybody would have even considered using it on the hair, which would only be to confirm what they had learned from other sources.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I was at the dentist today and talked to them about Andrea's expensive porcelain crowns/restorations. My dentist agreed that was quite cutting edge for 1990, and would have only been done, (or most likely done) for a wealthy patient. She (my dentist), suggested that if you narrow the search to dentists who specialized in cosmetic dentistry (truly a specialty in 1990), you might find a match. She further suggested that Huntington Beach was close enough to Beverly Hills and Hollywood....where many of these "Hollywood smiles" are created. So, would the local Hollywood/Bev Hills libraries have old yellow pages on microfiche? A wild card, but who knows. Finally, my dentist stated if they kept a sample of one of her real teeth they could test DNA. (This you already know). So there are the thoughts from my helpful dentist. She did say you can't match to the lab unless you know what special little "stamp" they use. I guess each lab marks the crowns in a unique way, to some extent.