CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #10

[Texas Red]

Yeah, I'm sure going to the casinos were far more important to him, like it seemed to be in a every facet of his life.

You're right, and it's most likely where he was when the family was murdered.

 

[MichaelCorleone]

The last thing the actual killer is going to have in their possession is a photo of where they buried the bodies. This is just another indication that CM is NOT the killer.

Unless he thinks he was his BFF and should have a picture of it, so he has it to cover for the fact that he is the killer.

With a crime like this, I don’t think you can apply the usual attributes of murderers to the culprit. If it was Merritt, he hadn’t killed before this, or after, so he isn’t necessarily going to fit the expected killer pattern from the handbook.

 

[katydid23]

Reading that it doesn’t sound like Joey was going to get rid of him but hire somebody to give him competition. He basically wanted to light a fire under his arse by the sounds of it.

But how would Chase perceive it? How would Chase take that kind of news from his boss and his 'best friend?'

I don't think he'd take to too well. Especially since Chase was already celebrating the supposed 9 million dollars in new business contracts. JMO

 

[katydid23]

You're right, and it's most likely where he was when the family was murdered.

Then why didn't he say so?

 

[katydid23]

The last thing the actual killer is going to have in their possession is a photo of where they buried the bodies. This is just another indication that CM is NOT the killer.

Really? Have you ever heard of 'mementos', kept by killers?

 

[A lucas]

Reading that it doesn’t sound like Joey was going to get rid of him but hire somebody to give him competition. He basically wanted to light a fire under his arse by the sounds of it.

And that’s exactly what happened when the main job was given to Metro with Chase demotivated to plumber and electrician so he was already on a losing streak.

On top of that Joey was making strides with his new house purchase and some lucrative deals coming in. CM was never going to get the cut he wanted given he wasn’t doing the main bulk of the custom work. He was flat broke and in fact owed JM 42k. Resentment coupled with the green eyed monster got to Chase...

 

[katydid23]

Reading that it doesn’t sound like Joey was going to get rid of him but hire somebody to give him competition. He basically wanted to light a fire under his arse by the sounds of it.

Also, that was what Joey was saying BEFORE he saw any fraudulent checks written by Chase. What would Joey be saying, if he was already unhappy with Chases' shoddy welding and his irresponsible gambling issues, and then found him messing around in his QB account?

 

[Texas Red]

Unless he thinks he was his BFF and should have a picture of it, so he has it to cover for the fact that he is the killer.

With a crime like this, I don’t think you can apply the usual attributes of murderers to the culprit. If it was Merritt, he hadn’t killed before this, or after, so he isn’t necessarily going to fit the expected killer pattern from the handbook.

“If it was Merritt, he hadn’t killed before this”
Just wait a few threads and he’ll be the most prolific serial killer in history.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I don’t agree that Chase thought him forging would not be found out.

Joey was running a business and would of checked his accounts often so it was just a matter of time and Chase would of known that.

So that’s why something happened that tipped him over the edge and he thought to hell with it. Maybe Joey had hinted at getting rid of him due to how poor his work was?!

Maybe he had a pop about Summer and Joey set him straight

Something definitely happened that made him think “to hell with this” on the 2nd.

Ita!

There was a flashpoint trigger where he decided he was going to murder them all.

 

[Texas Red]

Then why didn't he say so?

Since he's not the killer he has no idea when they were killed. So how would he know where he was during a time unknown to him?

 

[asyousay]

“If it was Merritt, he hadn’t killed before this”
Just wait a few threads and he’ll be the most prolific serial killer in history.

That has been my argument in the past about Chase that he has never been violent.

He is simply a thief and likes to con people but how many of those other people that he ripped off was he close to?

I genuinely think he liked and respected Joey as much as somebody like him could and so the difference I think was that he had a relationship with Joey and when it broke down he couldn’t handle it. I think the people has had ripped off in the past he wasn’t close to or had a real friendship with them.

MOO

 

[Texas Red]

Really? Have you ever heard of 'mementos', kept by killers?

I heard of killers keeping the corpse of their victim in the kitchen freezer however the killer’s name wasn’t CM.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Reading that it doesn’t sound like Joey was going to get rid of him but hire somebody to give him competition. He basically wanted to light a fire under his arse by the sounds of it.

That was all before the 4th though.

That final act of betrayal was the finally straw for Joey. Joey had finally had his fill. Finally, enough was enough. He had stabbed Joey in the back this time, resorting to stealing from him now.

Anyone else, but Joey would have fired his worthless arse as their sub long before.

Now the fire under CM really went sky high, and who can blame Joey.

He had to be livid, rightly so. He had given this man so many chances, doing things for him and even his family, that, imo, no one else would have dared do for this con.

So what does Joey get in return? Shoddy work, loans never repaid, countless complaints because of what shoddy work CM did, having to pay twice for materials, and it was Joey who had to deal with it all, because of CMs sorry arse.

Imo

 

[Tortoise]

It's an interesting insight from the jail house tapes that he's decided to say he was researching how to change his identity to write his book under a pseudonym. I suppose he's had a long time to dream up absurd stories.

Firstly in legal argument about the searches his DT put forward that Summer had changed her name, which was met by a snigger from the judge - and a comment like 'and Merritt was interested in Summer's change of name?' I wonder if that hearing was before or after Jarvis' visit. From what I could hear of her response it seemed to be news to her. But in any case he seems to have forgotten to tell his own attorneys which is interesting.

Secondly how would that work, authoring a book as Joey's friend and business associate? - I think people might guess who wrote it!

Thirdly, was he telling Jarvis so she could get that out to the jury if the DT asks her, or was he saying it because he intends to give evidence and wants their stories to align?

 

[Force Ten]

Pure speculation? If not please link to source.

It's pretty obvious that it's speculation. The majority of the posts here are just that.

 

[asyousay]

That was all before the 4th though.

That final act of betrayal was the finally straw for Joey. Joey had finally had his fill. Finally, enough was enough.

Anyone else, but Joey would have fired his worthless arse as their sub long before.

Now the fire under CM really went sky high, and who can blame Joey.

He had to be livid, rightly so. He had given this man so many chances, doing things for him and is family, that, imo, no one else would have dared do for this con.

So what does Joey get in return? Shoddy work, loans never repaid, countless complaints because of what shoddy work CM did, having to pay twice for materials, and it was Joey who had to deal with it all, because of CMs sorry arse.

Imo

I agree Joey would of been absolutely lived that morning when he realised what Chase had done and yet the prosecution claim they had lunch together and nobody noticed anything off either.

I think the majority of people would of blown up at lunch at Chase and caused a confrontation because of the level of betrayal but yet seemingly that didn’t happen. That’s one of my nagging doubts as to me it doesn’t add up.


MOO

 

[A lucas]

I agree Joey would of been absolutely lived that morning when he realised what Chase had done and yet the prosecution claim they had lunch together and nobody noticed anything off either.

I think the majority of people would of blown up at lunch at Chase and caused a confrontation because of the level of betrayal but yet seemingly that didn’t happen. That’s one of my nagging doubts as to me it doesn’t add up.


MOO

Apparently CM did say they argued at lunch in an early interview.

 

[cobalt sky]

I disagree, that there was no evidence that Joey had plans to eventually get rid of Chase. Here is a transcript from CNN:

KAYE: But as Patrick started investigating his family's disappearance his views on Merritt began to change.

P MCSTAY: That's what we found his record and we started finding more a lot about him and I don't remember all of him, but there was a burglary, (inaudible) theft, nothing violence.

KAYE: Chase handled much of the costume wielding work for Joseph's booming waterfall business. Here is what Merritt told us earlier this year.

MERRIT: We're anticipating probably a million and a half in sales for 2010. That's Joseph's total sales. I was probably going to be doing well over half of those waterfalls because the majority of those waterfalls were actually accustomed. KAYE: And that was just the beginning. Another potential contract of Joseph's would bring in about $9 million. Merritt stood to make a lot of money that is if we kept working for Joseph something that Patrick says was in jeopardy.

P MCSTAY: The last year Joey had talked about the quality of some of the (inaudible) had slipped. And Joey wasn't happy with that. He's upset.

KAYE: Blaming Chase at that point.

P MCSTAY: Yes, absolutely because he was getting complaints.

KAYE: Was he considering not doing business for Chase Merritt anymore.

P MCSTAY: Joey discussed with me about it possibly (inaudible) and getting another welder.

KAYE: Cutting Chase out.

P MCSTAY: Well not virtually cutting him out. Giving him some competition.

CNN.com - Transcripts



So before Joey even saw the fraudulent checks, he had already been thinking of replacing Chase because of all the complaints about his shoddy work. And he knew about his bad business reputation, his financial problems, his gambling and his criminal history.

So what are the chances that Joey decides to rid himself of this problem employee, once he realizes that Chase was writing himself checks from the business QB account?

But according to Sequeida, MSM was already doing the welding. So why would Joey need to hire another welder? I like Patrick, but imo you have to take everything he says with a grain of salt. He never said anything about Joey being unhappy with Chase's work until AFTER Chase was arrested. Patrick is easily influenced by people and over the years has had a tendency to parrot whatever the hanger-on-of-the-moment is whispering in his ear. To be clear, I think he is a grieving father/fil/gf who wants to help and wants justice for his family but I also think people have taken advantage of this over the years.

Also, it's important to remember that Sequeida himself testified that he was hoping to change the focus of his business to doing exclusively fountains. He liked the idea that he didn't have to do all of the up-front work (field visits, preparing quotes, etc) and it was easier money with less work. I wonder if Joey and Chase were aware of this lol. I wonder if Sequeida taking on more responsibility regarding completing the fountains had more to do with them wanting to edge Chase out (and eventually possibly Joey) in order to increase their own percentage of profit as opposed to Chase's lack of ambition and quality of work. Regardless, Joey already has a willing welder (MSM) who was ready to completely re-organize his entire business to focus exclusively on his fountains so I just don't see him planning on hiring another welder. Could he have been planning along with Sequeida to edge Chase out of the picture altogether? That would definitely be motive I think. But I also think if there was any evidence of that we would certainly have heard about it from the pros. So imo there is as of yet no solid evidence that Joey had any plans on firing or replacing Chase.

 

[Bernina]

It's an interesting insight from the jail house tapes that he's decided to say he was researching how to change his identity to write his book under a pseudonym. I suppose he's had a long time to dream up absurd stories.

Firstly in legal argument about the searches his DT put forward that Summer had changed her name, which was met by a snigger from the judge - and a comment like 'and Merritt was interested in Summer's change of name?' I wonder if that hearing was before or after Jarvis' visit. From what I could hear of her response it seemed to be news to her. But in any case he seems to have forgotten to tell his own attorneys which is interesting.

Secondly how would that work, authoring a book as Joey's friend and business associate? - I think people might guess who wrote it!

Thirdly, was he telling Jarvis so she could get that out to the jury if the DT asks her, or was he saying it because he intends to give evidence and wants their stories to align?

Jail visitation recordings were on February 1st, 3rd, 8th, and 10th of 2019.

Don't have a date for that particular argument.

I don't know why an individual close to a case would feel the need to use a pseudonym or change their name. Their personal involvement would give the book some credence and why hide the fact you authored it in your daily life?

I believe it was Michelle Muir (sp? CM's GF when he was arrested)), not CJ that was on the other side of the glass for that conversation.

 

[Mica]

I agree Joey would of been absolutely lived that morning when he realised what Chase had done and yet the prosecution claim they had lunch together and nobody noticed anything off either.

I think the majority of people would of blown up at lunch at Chase and caused a confrontation because of the level of betrayal but yet seemingly that didn’t happen. That’s one of my nagging doubts as to me it doesn’t add up.


MOO

I would expect Joey to be livid that morning too about the checks. But he spoke to PM shortly before leaving for his lunch meeting in RC and never mentioned anything was amiss. In fact PM said, “everything was fine.”